Handsaw and miter box question

Framar

WOW Framer
Joined
Jul 24, 2001
Posts
26,420
Loc
Buffalo, New York, USA/Fort Erie, Ontario, Canada
First off, let me say that I have always been afraid of power saws and I have never had to be in the position to have to learn how to cut frames on those bad boys at the shops where I worked in the past. Back then, to my lasting relief, only MEN were allowed to use the saws.

My shop is only 500 square feet. So I have never even owned a saw - no room for length molding! No room for saw!

But lately, after reading about how successful box programs are, I have taken the plunge and bought a hundred feet of plain, unfinished poplar (maybe?) molding from Allegheny. I have bought this 1" square profile in readymades for years - I finish it to suit the job or leave it plain. I have also been known to glue things onto it - it is a great, versatile molding.

I also make teensy frames out of discontinued corner samples and cut down old frames (usually 1" or narrower) to fit new projects.

I finally broke down and bought a brand new miter box and saw from Canadian Tire (after I sawed my old aluminum one in half so many times I could no longer keep it together.)

This new saw glides on roller type holders and it is suspended above the cutting surface so never again will I saw a miter box in half! It is a fine tooth saw and it cuts like BUTTER!

My ONLY problem is measuring. So far I have been cutting all pieces in one direction and then moving the blade to cut to size at the other end. Using a measuring tape to mark the size. The saw has badly designed stops but 16" is the limit (and there are no demarcations).

Now, if all you tool guys and gals will stop laughing - can anyone suggest a measuring/stop system that I could rig up for this saw? It will have to be something I can take apart easily (space problems again, even at home).

I remember when I worked for Kramer, before he bought the huge double-bladed beast - they used a table saw and I know that there was a measuring device of some sort but it eludes me now.

I also need advice on clamps. I thought I had every type of clamp known to mankind but nothing works on this puppy. Hmmm... now that I think of it - it seems to me that the measuring stops acted to hold the molding in place on Kramer's table saw. Is this possible?

I am very resourceful - I can make something out of nothing. I have a whole garage full of "stuff."

So steer me in the right direction on this and I'll be eternally grateful! Thanks!

BTW - I have somewhat gotten over my fear of power saws - I now have a power miter saw out in the garage but I use it mainly for length lumber. The blade is pretty crude (and it has no measuring system either!).
 
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Mar! . . .

First it's John driving and flying with cataracts... now I gotta worry about you and a finger eating miter saw?????
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I always sawed with the rabit facing me so when the saw blade touched it's little cottony tail, I could see I was close in it little bunny eyes.... :D

Oops, I mean rabet faced me so I could see the mark as it sat on the kerf hold edge. Steel yardstick is always easier than a holed viper.
Especially one that talks, like Ron's tape.
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Gee, thanks, Bro' Baer - I face the rabbet edge towards me too! Guess I'm not as bad at this as I had thought!

But I would still like a plan for a measuring stop of some sort!
 
Have a look at Logan and Nobex framing saws
(google search)You may be able to fabricate something on the lines of their measuring systems
Mick
 
Great Framar, you and Baer quipping back and forth have planted the image of Brer Rabbit and Brer <strike>Baer</strike> Bear in my head! Now Baer its gonna take me a while to get over the name of Brer Bear when I see your posts! Oh the issues of teh internet.

Framar why not get the Phedra saw setup and use your mitre box in place of the chop saw? Down the road when you decide you want to get a "real" saw you'll have half the purchase already. And if you decide it is overkill after a year of using it you could sell it here to someone who may be in your shoes of today.
If you don't want to go to that kind of expense right off the bat then check out the measuring systems on the Morso choppers.

My Morso has a newer measuring setup, in that the angled numbers line up with the rabbet and make measuring easy.

I saw an older model Morso with a measuring setup that was different, and may be what you are looking for. It measured the back edge of the frame, then you had to adjust a second measuring device to compensate for the width of the moulding.

I would think that an old manual would explain it better. Maybe one could be had from teh Morso web-site. Looked like a cumberome measuring system, but one that could be mastered relatively quickly, and "jury-rigged" with a steel rule quickly as well.
 
Mar -
Like Bob said, take a look at the Phedra system - we bought the saw & the measuring from them, but I believe they can adapt their system to almost any saw. The nice thing with it you can have your 1/8 glass allowance "built-in"
 
Mar, I'd suggest the Phadera also but it isn't meant to be taken apart for storage. Everytime you moved it you would have to recalibrate it. If I were you, and I'm not, I would rig something up with your saw at home and invest in a nicer blade for cutting frames. I had some sort of crude set up at home at one time, but I can't remember how it was made. Somebody made it for me. But it was a piece of lumber that had a grid on it and it was built up and calibrated to be the same height as the platform on the saw. I turned the wood backwards for one cut and forward for the cut I measured. I just can't remember how it was rigged to the saw.....but I know it wasn't meant to be dismantled, it had to stay put.

Whatever you do, watch those fingers.
 
Mar,
This probably isn't exactly what you want, but check out framer's outfit on the link below.

LINK

He built all kindsa clamps and gee-gaws. You might get some ideas from his project.
 
Wow - Charles - you NAILED it!!!!! That is exactly the kind of home-made rig I was seeking!!! Thanks! (and, thanks to YOU, framer!)
 
I think I'll stick with the silky smooth cutting hand saw, however, my Delta power miter saw doesn't have any guards. It scares me to death. (I bought it at a garage sale for $35!) Great for replacing decking, though...
 
Kathy,

The Phaedra system is self aligning when reassembled. I do it all the time in my shop, because I don't have room to leave it set up.

Pat :D
 
Pat, I had the most difficult time setitng up the Phaedera, after muddling through 13 pages of instructions and numerous phone calls and the help of three different individuals who are handy with that sort of stuff, once I did get it set up I wasn't going to move it an inch. It was probably my saws that were the problem but I have never been so frustrated in my life. It worked fine once set up but mine didn't appear to be detachable. Once I got the floor saw, I sold the Phadera and to my knowledge it went on to live a good productive life..............
 
Originally posted by Framar:
I think I'll stick with the silky smooth cutting hand saw, however, my Delta power miter saw doesn't have any guards. It scares me to death. (I bought it at a garage sale for $35!) Great for replacing decking, though...
I taught firearms safety classes years ago and one of the first fears that most women had to get past was the fear of the handgun "kicking". This terrified alot of women. One other fear was that the handgun would go off by itself and blow off a big toe or accidently shoot somebody in the next county! Once I got them comfortable with the real world of proper handgun handling and instilled a healthy respect for the weapon, they went on to excel in target practice, loading/firing and handling their weapon.

The same is true for power tools. You have a fear of the saws and that has to be addressed before you will be safe around them. Fear makes for some very nasty mistakes when handling power tools. I am sure that there is a woodworking class or an adult class in operating power tools offered in your area. Some of the home improvement stores ie., Home Depot, Lowe's, will hold classes and seminars in safe operation and handling of power tools. You really need to get someone to walk you through the procedure and I will guarantee that you will be at ease with the saws and will understand the do's and don't's of operating them. And don't confuse fear with respect, one is dangerous and the other makes you a safe operator.

You are really missing out on some smoooooth cutting! (And fast too!)
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Framerguy
 
Kathy, that's because all Phaedra systems are right handed.

I have put together several Phaedra systems for myself (two sets were stolen) and helped one of the other frame shops align theirs. Once set up, they do as good a job as I've seen in realigning when reassembled.

There are going to be challenges with any system that will be disassembled and reassembled with any regularity. Getting the parts to align the same way each time, and the normal process of wear and tear will assure that a knock-down system can never have the accuracy of a permanently mounted system.

Mar, If you have a workbench that the saw can be set in to, you might have a solution. Make a shelf for it to sit so the table of the saw is flush with the surface of the bench, and inset a measuring guide in the work top. When not in use, you can make an insert to fill in the void. A fence can be made using dowels for registration, and a simple pinch clamp and a piece of mitered 1x2 as a stop.
Even if you don't get a Phaedra, you can get their self-adhesive measuring guides.
 
Self adhesive meassuring guides??? That reminds me, does anyone know where I can get a LARGE PRINT self adhesive ruler for my paper cutter???

I have to wait til June 14 for my cataract surgery and I can't afford to keep cutting matboard wrong! I have discovered that if I go back to marking all four sides of a mat, I can see well enough to cut mats, but that paper cutter has become my nemisis! And it is only 24 inches!!! I'd be out of business by now if it were a 36!!! LOL!
 
Framar,

I have a freind in the low vision world. Her business sells many useful products, she may be able to help you. Gayle's website should give you her contact info. You could also contact the Assistive Technology Department at SUNY-Buffalo. Great people there and they may have teh products you need.

Also might be able to find something at a teacher's store, like Hammetts. But I would contact the Assistive Tech people first (my past life!) as they will have the information you need.
 
Bob - what a great resource! I guess it never even dawned on me that there probably wouldn't be too many resources geared to half-blind framers! LOL! Thanks!
 
Well - I figured there really wouldn't be a whole lot of rulers available for the vision impaired so I solved my own problem.

I laid out a piece of Magic Tape on a steel ruler, then carefully placed little stick-on numbers in the appropriate places. Then I covered this with a piece of J-Lar. Then I stuck it on paper cutter. VOILA!

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Brilliant, eh???
 
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