Guillutine vs sander

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caddy

Grumbler in Training
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Jan 16, 2007
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Hi folks, new member here. I'm actually not a framer, I'm a photographer looking to do framing as a service for portrait customers as well as myself.

I'm assembling the tools, but I'm trying to decide on what tool to use for fine-tuning the miters. Do you prefer a sander like the Logan F-200-1 or a guillutine?

Or am I totally on the wrong track here?

Cliff
 
Cliff,
For years, I used an old Lyon Trimmer to fine tune my joints cut with a hand miter saw. This worked great as long as I had nice solid wood w/ stain or paint mouldings. I was away from the industry for a while and when I recently came back to rejuvenate my framing passion, I found that many of the mouldings were wood with a compo finish surface. I found that my trimmer really did not work well with these, but actually chipped the surfaces, but the sander works much better.

At least that's my experience. I wonder if a little bannanna on the blades woulda helped??? Maybe I'll try it.. Seriously, the sander is the way to go. You also remove a lot less material with the sanders.

QD
 
As a professional photographer, may I suggest partnering with a professional framer.

Maybe the framer who is setting up the photo pull-down lights to offer inexpensive portrait photography as a service for their framing customers.

Welcome to The Picture FRAMERS Grumble.
 
Baer Charlton said:
Maybe the framer who is setting up the photo pull-down lights to offer inexpensive portrait photography as a service for their framing customers.
.
Click to expand...

This kind of snide remark is exactly why I was afraid to post questions here.

Cliff
 
I agree with Baer. Find a framer you can work with. A guillotine cuts the wood not smooths the cut. If you try to make a mitre with only a sander you will be grinding away for a long time!

So find a framer. The photog I work with is too busy to learn how to frame. And he doesn't want to. If he wants to invest in extra education and equipment he's gonna get photog equip not choppers! I know how to hold a camera, doesn't make me a photog. For a really good family shot I can call my photog.
 
caddy said:
This kind of snide remark is exactly why I was afraid to post questions here.

Cliff
Click to expand...

Well Cliff, if you had said "I am a photgrapher, interested in learning to become a framer as well to provide a service to my customers" I am sure you would have gotten a different response from Baer.

The way you said it seemed to imply that "custom framers are just so expensive and I can do it so much cheaper". We have had the discussion before with photographers, "why do professional photos cost so much, it's just a picture"

Now alot of things are lost in translation on a forum such as this. So take a deep breath and start again, introduce yourself nicely and most of us will be nice also.

And welcome to the Grumble.

PS. Baer, down boy, it's not good for your blood pressure! :D
 
caddy said:
This kind of snide remark is exactly why I was afraid to post questions here.

Cliff
Click to expand...

His name is BEAR, he's kind of gruff! But he did say welcome to the grumble!

The logan equip, imo sucks. If you can use it and get good results imagine how good your results would be if you used good equip to start with. United sells a sander. Expensive but worth it. Its like using a point and shoot for a portrait. If you get a great portrait with one of those imagine how it would look if you used a real camera!

Keep posting here. We bite, but we are far away so it doesn't hurt too much! Hook up with a framer. When my photog is buried in editing wedding and senior portrait shots the last thing he wants to do is dicker with vendors and sand down corners! He makes me do that. He has a set of frames that he offers as his line. If his customers want a different moulding he sends them here and I give them a discount. He is helping me to feed my kids and I am helping him feed his!
 
Getting back to your original question...

My suggestion wold be to get a sander. The Logan framing equipment I have seen is not what I would consider professional-grade, but I have not seen their sander.

ITW makes an excellent quality hand-turned sander, but it is pricey. You can buy a similar machine from United Mfrs Suppliers for a much better price.

You can also adapt a construction-grade electric sander (such as Delta), or buy one already set up for sanding miters, (such as Barton).

Joining the moulding is also important. Have you decided to buy an underpinner yet? When you do, I suggest buying a pro-grade pneumatic machine, which will serve your purposes long term.
 
You didn't say how or where you're buying your moulding. I'm guessing from the post that you are buying it chopped. In that case, get a good sander.
"fine-tuning the miters" isn't a job for a chopper.
 
I did not mention it, but the United Sander is the one that I now use for all my joints. Would not try the Logan (looks to be a POJ from the box)
 
j Paul said:
Well Cliff, if you had said "I am a photgrapher, interested in learning to become a framer as well to provide a service to my customers" I am sure you would have gotten a different response from Baer.

The way you said it seemed to imply that "custom framers are just so expensive and I can do it so much cheaper". We have had the discussion before with photographers, "why do professional photos cost so much, it's just a picture"\
Click to expand...

Oh JP, you explain it so well. Thank you.

Caddy, I apologize for being short. After all, we both belong to the same professional organization right? PMA/PPFA? You know, the show where you photographers can buy framing at wholesale, but framers can't buy photography equipment??? :thumbsup:
 
We can't??? Ah man, and I was thinking of going back to Vegas in March to....oh. Never mind. Carry on.

grumblegrumblegrumble

And welcome to the Grumble, caddy. Never, never be afraid to ask anything here. Someone else might learn from your question, no matter how the lions, tigers and baers might snarl at ya ....they're really pretty harmless. Just being protective. This is, after all, the Picture Framers Grumble, rather than the Photographers Grumble. Some folks here are both.
 
I'm a tad out of touch, but I thought that PMA members are photo retailers and photo finishers - not portrait photographers.

Regardless, there's no room on The Grumble for hostility toward a new poster who hasn't even had an opportunity to insult us yet.

I got my start in framing because I had a photo shop, btw.
 
Caddy, welcome to the Grumble. Please feel free to visit often and even join in, lurkers are just that, and to be fed you must feed others, right? It is a great place for having fun, learning how to do the job right and for just letting your hair down. Remember to have fun at what ever you do...
 
Ron, it's the Photo Marketing Association.. that includes everyone with a camera... except framers who what a new camera.

I sat in on a "class" of a portrait photographer a few years ago. I learned more in 15 minutes of standing there watching him shoot and talking about what and why, then years of shooting. I now take much better portraits . . . but I wouldn't consider "offering it as a service to my framing customers", instead we offer out three business cards of photographers that we have found to be reputable and great to work with.
 
Still off topic but...

As one newbie to another...Welcome!

As the wife of a photographer who has been learning about framing in order to add to the business I think I can see where all sides are coming from. It is true that you can't do everything and as a photographer you should look at finding someone who you can partner with. My husband barely has enough time to get his stuff done let alone take the time to properly learn about framing.

I completely understand the desire to expand the business or perhaps even more importantly ensuring that your work is properly showcased. For my husband and I the decision for me to learn about framing was not only a business decision for us and his clientel but also due to frustration that clients spend the money to hire a good photographer then simply slap the picture in a cheap Walmart frame with a paper mat. My most horrifying moment was my husband coming home from a wedding he shot and showing me what the couple had done with their engagement shots. They spent a stupid amount on everything else at the wedding but then simply taped the pictures to a piece of bristol board which by the end of the night was all warped and looked like some kids grade school project. This happened right after my framing course and I was simply appalled.

Bottom line...you want the entire package to look good so don't sell your clients short by spreading yourself too thin. If you do wish to pursue framing yourself ensure you take courses to do things properly or you will simply be defeating the purpose which will ultimately hurt you as a photographer.
 
Don't get me wrong because I love the PMA show

I believe you will find the fastest growing group of framers are photographers, photo labs, camera shops and combinations of the three.

The PMA show has lots of stuff for the photo studio and photo lab but the camera equipment is for the camera shop dealer. It's not the place to go to buy a single camera.

I think you would find that framers will get the same price as anyone on just about anything at the show. Canon and Nikon wont talk to you unless your ready to spend $99,000.

If you were dumb enough, you could buy a six figure digital photo printer and start your own photo lab.
No discrimination against framers with these guys..........just sign on the dotted line. (But call me first)

If your feeling cheated because you can't get a good deal on a camera don't feel too bad. The average, million dollar, independent camera shop has the same problem. The mass merchants consistently sell brand name cameras to the public for less than wholesale dealer price.

Doug
 
Too many hats....

caddy said:
Hi folks, new member here. I'm actually not a framer, I'm a photographer looking to do framing as a service for portrait customers as well as myself.

Or am I totally on the wrong track here?
Cliff
Click to expand...

Interesting this should come up now. Two days ago, a portrait photographer who does digital retouching for me, and I often do more difficult framing for him, came to me and said he doesn't want to "offer framing service" to his photog. customers anymore. He has been ordering ready-made frames and mats from 2 companies, and doing the fitting himself. Thought it might add to his profits and give his clients a one-stop shopping service. Then he kept remembering me tell him once that time is money and when he considered the value of the time it takes him, he actually lost money! And time taken away from doing his photography.

He said he sat down to think about his plan for the year, what he wants to do differently, and what kept coming up was...stop framing!He hated the designing process, the hemming and hawing of his clients about mats, frames, glass, etc. because he wasn't so good at it either.

He's a portrait photographer, and a darned good one. I told him I could tell my framing customers"Sure, I can do photography too, here, go stand over there in the corner and I'll take your picture, how convenient!." So, he took a stack of my cards back to his shop and said he felt an incredible freedom, having made the decision to refer his photog customers to me and I will refer folks to him, our shops are only a few blocks apart. Now he can concentrate on marketing his photography studio, and leave the framing "worries' behind.

Works for me!:thumbsup:
 
Sounds like a win-win situation for both you and the portrait photographer, Val. You were smart to point out that 'time is money'. I think a lot of people, me included sometimes, forget that fact. It kind of reminds me of my brother, who owns a computer company. He would often hire people to mow his lawn, paint his house, etc. and he would say he could bill $100+/hour working on computer-related business instead of taking that time to mow the lawn, etc...
 
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