GU10 Lighting Kit vs other bulb types

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cjmst3k

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Tomorrow I'm planning on ordering about 35 lighting kits for my new space. The kits include (1) four foot track and (3) lights with GU10 bulbs included, and hardware, etc.

My current space (which has 9' ceilings) started off with 120 watt incandescent flood lights which are expensive to run but great lighting, and as I added lights over the last 10 years those larger fixtures from that brand was discontinued, so I got additional tracks with MR16 bulbs, but the insertion of the bulbs is annoying (dangling wires, clips, etc) and then when I needed more light I went with the GU10 bulbs and they are very easy to put in and take out.

My new space is going to have 11.5' ceilings (2.5' taller) with most of the artwork (expensive paintings mostly) will be hanging below 8', but a series of framed prints up above the 8' mark as filler. Will GU10 bulbs have enough illumination to go the extra 2.5' distance? Luckily I have a ton of GU10 lights that I tested and will work with the new track to fill in here and there, but I just was curious about people's thoughts on GU10 bulbs, for this height, throw, angle, etc. I'm not a fan of the extension track or extension fixtures protruding from the ceiling... and the price is right for these kits.

I'm staying far away from fluorescent and LED lights because I've tried them before and they look horrendous on nice artwork.

Thoughts?


Here's the lighting kit:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_233036-4784...L=/pl__0__s?Ntt=track+lighting+kit&facetInfo=
 
I put a set of GU10's on the ceiling fan in the new kitchen...big mistake. The bulbs themselves are fairly expensive, they have a relatively short life and they put off a lot of heat.
Elsewhere in the kitchen I put in a set of semi-recessed 12V "Hockey Puck" lights. They use very little electricity, put out about the same amount of light as the GU10's and I have yet to replace a bulb.
 
wpfay said:
I put a set of GU10's on the ceiling fan in the new kitchen...big mistake. The bulbs themselves are fairly expensive, they have a relatively short life and they put off a lot of heat.
Elsewhere in the kitchen I put in a set of semi-recessed 12V "Hockey Puck" lights. They use very little electricity, put out about the same amount of light as the GU10's and I have yet to replace a bulb.
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I have a "block" of GU10 bulbs I bought from an ebay lightbulb seller. The cheap ones I bought die very quickly, but the more expensive "2 year" ones last considerably longer.

No kits on Lowes website for the 12v ones. :( Aside from the time-frame of replacing (which may be tied to the varying quality of the bulbs), how much less energy do they use? What wattage?
 
think in terms of bulb availability---how long will the incandescent bulbes be available on the market? you should be thinking in terms of LED's as they seem to be what will be around for sale in the immediated future...
do I not remember that 'they' stopped making the 'normal' bulbs last year??? and that CFC's are not long for the market either so that's not the best alternative either.... I think I can still get kerosene for the lamps...
 
BILL WARD said:
think in terms of bulb availability---how long will the incandescent bulbes be available on the market? you should be thinking in terms of LED's as they seem to be what will be around for sale in the immediated future...
do I not remember that 'they' stopped making the 'normal' bulbs last year??? and that CFC's are not long for the market either so that's not the best alternative either.... I think I can still get kerosene for the lamps...
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I am very much concerned about that. From my research, I thought halogen bulbs are "safe" for at least another 10 years. Is there anything indicating specifically that halogens are scheduled for execution sometime soon? Incandescent bulbs are going away over the next year or so, which is why the track option with them I'm skipping.
 
I had a shop full of incandescents and then changed them to halogens. Lets put it this way, during the winter, we left the lights on and turned off the furnace (at that time electricity was much less then natural gas). During the summer, the AC ran at full blast when ever the store was open.

I want to add more track lighting here, but have not played around with anything yet. I think I am going to try to go to Rob Markoff's lighting class at WCAF next year and go from there.
 
FrameMakers said:
I had a shop full of incandescents and then changed them to halogens. Lets put it this way, during the winter, we left the lights on and turned off the furnace (at that time electricity was much less then natural gas). During the summer, the AC ran at full blast when ever the store was open.
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This is literally my current method of business. AC has to be turned to 60 degrees in the morning for it to be 72 in the afternoon, during the summer. My new location should have a much better circulation of air, but the lights are certainly counterproductive during the summer.
 
I was just reading another old thread about lighting. At least one shop bought online from USALIGHT.com.


This one is very similar in design to what I'm looking for, and uses a screw in 50w halogen bulb.
http://usalight.com/lzr301p-lazer-brand-track-lighting-fixture.html

The ones at Lowes, which include a 4' track and three fixtures, and with the price break they were telling me would be $30 per kit (bulbs included) after tax. Essentially $10 per fixture, inclusive of bulbs, track, hardware.

USALIGHT has the above overstock lamp for $3.20 per fixture (if buying over 48 fixtures). The bulbs online are about $1.99 per bulb in large quantities, so that makes it $5.20 per fixture with bulb, but plus the track and bits....

Hmm...
 
Plus you don't have to deal with a bunch of 4' tracks. You can put up 10' ones.
 
FrameMakers said:
Plus you don't have to deal with a bunch of 4' tracks. You can put up 10' ones.
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I'm sending USALIGHT an email now to see if they can quote me for 105 lamps, plus track. 24 4' tracks, and 5 10' tracks, and all the "bits" that are needed. (more detailed though) I'll be interested to see what they can do with that quantity. Hopefully make it worth my while to shop with them. The lighting I was going to get from Lowes was going to cost me $1,000, all inclusive (except cable running from box).
 
Length of track is meaningless. Amperage of circuit or two circuit track is. GU 10 lamps are basically MR-16 lamps that run @ 110 voltage. Unfortunately, GU-10 lamps only come in a Flood with limited photo metrics. Even when comparing GU 10 lamps, the lumen output can vary from lamp to lamp. What you need to do is determine how many foot-candles of light you want on your wall and determine the amount of lumens it takes to get the foot-candle rating at the distance you are projecting from. Charts are all over the internet and USA lighting should also have them.

The fallacy is that you cannot substitute a GU 10 lamp @ 50 watts and expect it to do what a 90 watt PAR 38 lamp will do. Most people end up doubling up so you are in effect replacing a 90 watt lamp with two 50 watt lamps and end up using more energy.

Any concern regarding incandescent phase out is unfounded. GU 10 and PAR 38 capsulites are different technology. By the time that phaseout comes, LED technology will be even more refined and significantly less expensive. The comment that LED lamps do not look good lighting art is also a bit broad. There are very good LED lamps out there @ $39 per lamp that have excellent color rendering. Biggest problem is that they just do not put out enough light so it takes more of them to get the job done. Even with the increased number of lamps, they are still less expensive in the long run. I just don't have a pile of $$ available to "invest" in the new lamps.......

Just because a lamp is a GU 10 and it is inexpensive does not mean it has good photo metrics or has a dichroic filter. I still maintain that a GU 10 also needs a cover glass (unless it is built into the lamp itself) as the capsule can still explode and you are running a commercial space.

Also, when locating tracks, be sure to use the 30 degree aiming angle rule. A good rule of thumb is the track should be 50% of the distance from the center of the art to the ceiling away from the wall.
 
I had never heard of these GU10 bulbs before and I have been doing a little research on them thanks to this thread. I have been looking for replacement track lighting in my living room (tracks are fine but plastic parts have broken on two out of 6 cans and since they are over 30 years old they are irreplaceable).

At Canadian tire they sell the GU10s for around $30 EACH and it looks like they come either screw in or plug in. Which kind comes with the Lowes tracks? Could regular CFLs be used in these fixtures? That is a heck of a price.
 
I wouldn't go shopping for my bulbs at a tire store. GU-10s should be more like $3 or $4 each, not $30.
:eek: Rick
 
There seems to be some confusion on the last posts. GU-10 is a lamp designation not a fixture. A GU-10 will fit into a fixture designed to hold a GU-10 and they are usually a bi-pin twist in lamp. I have not heard of a GU-10 screw in lamp.

The FIXTURE needs to fit the type of track you have. The fixture will determine the type of lamp needed. It is possible to have fixtures on a track with GU-10 lamps, MR-16 lamps, Par-30 or 38 lamps, or even A type lamps (though they are not appropriate or recomended - just because they will light up does not mean they are appropriate or efficient).

There are CFL lamps that will fit into fixtures designed for PAR 30 and 38 lamps. There are also CFLs (the curly type) that will screw into the fixture and light up but are also inappropriate for use in the fixture because they have no built in reflector to direct the light out of the fixture. One needs to be very careful with CFL lamps - the color rendering properties are sometimes worse than LEDs.
 
Back to the OP -

The 3 fixture GU-10 track you linked has a canopy box for each set of tracks. That means for each 4' of track you will need a junction box. This sure seems like a lot of unnecessary work especially of you have a long wall. I sure would go with 10' or longer track runs and if it were my space, would suspend the tracks by 2' to increase the foot candle output of the lamps by bringing them closer to the art. You may find the track in the kit you linked is a "throw-away" and the fixtures would be fine on a longer track.

The fixture you linked from USA is not appropriate for the distance or the task you specified. Look at the lamps the fixture will hold. The largest is a PAR 20 which is way too small to light a wall from even 8'. You need a 90 watt PAR 38 at that distance and the fixture will not hold it.

WATTAGE means NOTHING but an indication of how much energy is used. Lumens per watt is what you are looking for. What is the maximum number of lumens a 50 watt PAR 20 lamp will produce? How about a 50 watt GU-10?

You need to determine how bright you want your walls (in footcandles) and then determine how many lumens it will take to achieve that level of illumination. Then it will determine how many lamps it will take to achieve that brightness.

There are professionals who make their living providing this kind of information but many of the internet sites also have skilled staff members who can help you achieve what you are trying to do. Electricians can hook it all up, but my experience is that they only fulfill the plans of a trained professional.

You also need to consider the photometrics of a GU-10 (or other lamp) in terms of beam spread from the point of projection. From 11 feet to the center of your wall, the beam spread of a 50 watt PAR 20 or even a 50 watt GU-10 might not give you the even coverage on the "expensive" paintings you are lighting. You may need at least two fixtures cross angled to get the width of spread you need at the brightness you are looking for. And with a 4 foot track limitation, you may not be able to get the cross coverage necessary for a proper look as the beams will be too perpendicular to the wall.
 
Lighting is one of the most important elements in the design/setting up of a space. I read up on it, did research and still needed help. It was extremely confusing because we got conflicting advice whether it was from lighting showrooms, lighting websites, designers, a lighting designer etc. The only one who I felt sure knew what he was talking about was Rob Markoff as he has a shop too and understands the needs of a frame shop/art gallery.

Making a mistake with lighting can be expensive now and for years to come so take the time to make sure you are getting the right lighting for your needs. We were so stressed out and tight in time that we ended had the contractor hook up some bare bulbs in the meantime. The renovation wasn't finished anyway so at least it looked liked it belonged. He will be back towards the end of the summer to finish up so we still have to make the lighting decision. At least this time we have the luxury of time.

Whatever fixtures/tracks you use you should make sure that they are suitable for a gallery environment where the lights can be on for many hours a day. A couple of store owners told me that some of their fixtures melted because they were rated for residential and not commercial usage.

I also wouldn't go with 4 feet tracks unless it is a short wall. Why have short tracks with connectors? If you are starting from scratch you may as well have the longer ones. Just my opinion.
 
LED will play a huge role in the near future, and is still maturing, IMO. We don't use it in our shop (yet), but have many LED bulbs at home. (some of them have been running 24/7 for years) We're still in the "lets make it look like/retrofit the old technology" stage, rather than being innovative with new fixtures, imo.

We just got back last night from a week long cruise on the new Allure of the Seas. The cruise line tends to be on the cutting edge, and the ship used almost entirely LED (and a small amount of CFL) lighting. It's encouraging the see how bright some of the LED fixtures were, and that they were cool to the touch. They even use LED for stage lighting and for outside areas, to light the art pieces in every stateroom, bathroom night light, signage, hallways, casino, etc. They probably paid a premium, because the technology is new... I assume that the longevity of the bulbs, the reduced heat load, and the energy savings make it very worthwhile. (they make their own power, so there will be a big fuel savings)

In any case, this is the future. Rob's new lighting class tackles these issues and decisions. I've heard very good things about the class!

Mike
 
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