Grrrr......Interior Decorators

happycamper

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Posts
268
Loc
calgary, alberta
I just need to blow off steam.... A good customer of mine came in with her interior decorator ( a program I have taken and have the program certificate). She wanted a watercolour jammed into a frame, mounted flat on backing, glass and the cheapest possible frame. My customer has never framed like this and I gave all the archival reasons for not doing this... gave the quote. AND THEY LEFT.
The quote was an inexpensive frame....
I have not had anyone do that in over a year.... I am so angry I will take a while to calm down.... grrrrr.
So should I send an email to my customer thanking her for coming in and let her know I appreciate her business??? I feel I need to do something to let her know that even though they may have gone elsewhere or what ever that she is valued here!!!
 
Hmmmmmm.......a customer who can afford an interior decorator but wants a cheap frame??

Strange indeed. Usually those customers are not that price sensitive.

An email is a good idea (a card is even better) but the whole thing is odd.
 
.. gave the quote. AND THEY LEFT......
I have not had anyone do that in over a year....

If that the case your incredible... we have people leave after the quote all the time... you don't always know why...maybe she knows your right and wants to return without her Decorator.

I think following up is just good business but I would wait a few days.

Doug
 
Include "It was so good to see you as always... I have a few more ideas I would love to show you if you'd like to stop in at your convenience..." . Keep it light and breezy. No need to instill any thought of embarrassment.
;) Rick
 
Hmmmmmm.......a customer who can afford an interior decorator but wants a cheap frame??

I think it was the decorator who was insisting on the cheapo frame... you know, like they show on HGTV all the time: "Here's how to avoid the high cost of picture framing! All you need is four sticks of wood and a piece of colored paper!" :)
 
Maybe the interior decorator said "lets go to MY favorite framer" and your customer said "I want to use my own framer" then the ID said "how about we go to your framer and price it up, then we'll price it up with my framer". But that's just a guess.

You could email the customer and say

"Hi Jennifer, I'm placing a material order on Monday. Did you want me to include your project in my order? There's another fabulous framing option I'd like to show you, but I don't think your interior decorator wanted me to show it to you."

-It doesn't concede that they may have brought it elsewhere
-It gives her an opportunity to explain whats going on
 
I think it was the decorator who was insisting on the cheapo frame... you know, like they show on HGTV all the time: "Here's how to avoid the high cost of picture framing! All you need is four sticks of wood and a piece of colored paper!" :)

...and scissors according to the customer in the other thread!! hahaha...
 
thanks for the support.... I do believe they went to the ID's framer where she gets a "hit" on the framing project... I just have a problem with the deceptive actions and all the obviousness of it all.... I should have asked her for her card!!
As for HGTV, I have written them and advised them on the demise of the cheapness of framing used on their decorating programs.... no replies...
 
As for HGTV, I have written them and advised them on the demise of the cheapness of framing used on their decorating programs.... no replies...
Don't bother. HGTV has so few decorating shows anymore that they ought to change the name of the network to BGBORE (pronounced "big bore"), for Beginner's Guide to Buying Overpriced Real Estate.
:cool: Rick

I miss Kenneth Brown, Lisa LaPorta, Candace Olson, and the little guy who used to host "Designing for the Sexes". That show always featured the kind of husband/wife style choice dichotomies we often witness at the frame design counter.
 
it's less about the customer than it is the designer-----if there is $100 budgeted for a framing and if they only spend $50 of that then the designer's gonna get the other $50! purely economics-----the fact that it will look like(and probably be) c r a p is totally irrelevant. honestly? I have yet to encounter a situation like this where the customer gets a 'deal' (or a good job) and I didn't get a case of heartburn---wish they'd NOT come in together--it's like the designers are showing off for the clients! (like: 'see!!!! how much $$$ I'm saving on this extravigance???')When the designers come in alone It's a slightly different ball game---about as 'cheap' but with workable alternatives/possibilities. go figure:confused:
 
Include "It was so good to see you as always... I have a few more ideas I would love to show you if you'd like to stop in at your convenience..." . Keep it light and breezy. No need to instill any thought of embarrassment.
;) Rick


Amen and amen.
 
Include "It was so good to see you as always... I have a few more ideas I would love to show you if you'd like to stop in at your convenience..." . Keep it light and breezy. No need to instill any thought of embarrassment.
;) Rick

I amen that too!
 
I thought this thread was going to be about their 'taste' in design. In my experience, they treat art like furniture. There have been too many occasions where a designer will choose a black frame with a white mat. Then say it makes the image 'pop'. Never mind that it doesn't make any sense for their 1930s era photo (for instance). Then (some) have the audacity to say your design is 'wrong'.

A related anecdote:
There was an art teacher that had a few images and we had selected some very nice, colored mats. A designer waiting for assistance commented, "you should use a white mat, it'll make it pop!". He replied, "I have been teaching for art for over fifteen years, I have an idea what I am doing.":smiley:
 
Warning: Giant post.

Gah....... I know. The curse of the white mat cult.

I use white mats freely whenever it's the right thing,
but some people are fixated about using them on
everything. It's interesting that this art teacher was
open to more, because around here, it's the college
art department people who tend to be cast in stone
on this one. They believe that the only way to display
paper art is with a blindingly white mat and either
a natural wood or black frame. Period. It's a stultifying
sort of aesthetic elitism, and it can be so limiting. There
are works of art that would really come to life with other
treatments, but those white mats go around them, and
they can look so starkly brilliant that they steal the focus
from more subtle images.

I don't deal with designers and decorators very often,
and the two who do come to me a couple times a year
are very easy to deal with. They'll bring the piece in and
ask me to come up with what looks good on it. I really
enjoy working with both of them. But I have had that
experience of when a customer attempts to direct the
design of someone else's framing. Only a few times, but
it happened last month.

I was designing a photo for a fellow, and he had chosen
what he wanted. It was the best design, and I was adding up
the estimate. Another customer of mine, a woman who has
boatloads of money and likes any frame as long as it's huge,
came into the shop. She proceeded to tell him that the little
inner mat we had chosen was all wrong for the piece, and that
the frame we had chosen was too small. She grabbed out
a frame that was almost four inches wide and held it up to the
piece, telling him that this one was far better. I'm a subtle person,
and not one to feel the need to jump in at a moment like
that, so I just let her do her thing and when I had added it up,
I walked back over. I got her to leave us alone by 'helping' her
go over to pay at the desk, and I went back to my fellow.
Then I had to re-iterate why what we had chosen was the best,
in a low enough voice that she couldn't hear it. Including how
the inner mat picked up the light perfectly, and why the other
frame was so big that it dwarfed the subject in the photo.
He was very relieved that I had the confidence to gently and
immediately steer it back to what he had liked, and he agreed
that it really was what he wanted. I'm sure that when she
left, she thought he would go with her suggestions, and that
she had done me a favor.

The finished job was beautiful, and I felt good about having
saved the design idea from going in a wrong direction. I don't
know where people get the idea that they can jump in and
tell someone what to do. I would never interfere in that way
with someone and the person they had gone to for help.
 
I had a woman come in last week with a framed piece. She said she had had it done a couple years ago and that her ID had convinced her the mats and frame were good options. It was a watercolor of bright yellow daisies with a bright blue sky and bright green leaves. The ID had picked out a stark white top mat, shiny gold inner mat and a crackled finish cool-tone gold frame. The piece was also very cropped. The customer told me that there had been a lot more painting there and that it seemed all wrong. So wrong, in fact, that she never hung the piece up after it was framed. She finally decided to bring it to me to see if we could do something else with it. We ended up with a warm off-white top mat and a green inner mat with a warm "fruitwood" frame. I told her I'd let her know if there was any more of the piece hiding behind the mat and we could adjust the dimensions based on what was left of the piece.
When I opened the old framing package, the watercolor had been cut down to fit the dimensions the ID wanted, so there isn't much of the piece left, but we expanded it as much as we could.

I've had my own dealings with IDs, and many (not all - there must be good ones out there somewhere) have terrible taste. I've had several ask if I gave discounts to ID's - usally right when they are paying for something they are framing for their own homes!

A little off topic, but I still don't see why they feel that I should give them a discount on a customer's work so that they can keep the remainder. Unless they are going to pay my bills or buy me dinner with that "leftover money", I don't owe them anything.
 
Am I the only one who LOL'd at this? :smileyshot22:

Shhhhh... We get it cuz you're you and I'm me and we're good like that.

Man now I reminded myself of one of my favorite sales reps from way back, Jack Duvall from John Kozak's.... he used to say that at least three times per meeting. "But you get this footage and I do this price cuz you're you and I'm me and we're good like that right?"

I miss that guy. I liked him so much I carried some LaMarche. :p
 
Sarah, I thought it was funny, too. :)

As for carrying LaMarche, I still have about eight of
their corner samples in my apartment. They're just so
lovely that I couldn't bear to part with them when the
company did it's graceful swan dive into oblivion. I sure
do miss them. They were great.
 
LaMarche was a little inconvenient here in Ohio.... ordered boxes and stocked a bunch and didn't reorder too much as I remember as they tended to go out... I think I still have some back in the nether regions of my bins. Jack also repped Bendix, Max... man I think Bosley as well way back... remember Bosley?

I'm Frankenthreading.... I think it's a knee-jerk response to being incapable of making fun of designers because I love them and want to make them happy.
 
Am I the only one who deals with designers on a regular basis with out issues. I do a lot of art for designers for custom and model homes. Designers have to be gentle taught they don't know how to frame. There are those that learn, and those that get a PITA fee or get out. Guess I'm lucky to have quite a few great designers that give me freedom to design what looks good for the art and not what matches the drapes, it has to all go together.
 
I too Like and work well with the designers.
You have to understand their world....It is all about design and how it all fits.

To some of them Art & Framing are usually just a shape, subject & a color.
What they say "What do you think should go in this?"
What they really mean is "I am in control here. I know what looks the best. By the way I can buy wholesale at the furniture Marts & only pay $25.00 for a 24x30 already framed picture"
If they design it I do not put my sticker on it.
I put a sticker on that says Designed by Marnie the Designer Framed by Our frame shop.

Then you have the ones where it is only about price.
The less they have to pay the more profit they make...(parallel universe)

Then you have the ones who bring in the pictures & their sample board of the carpet walls drapes furniture cloth.(so professional) Then say do it try & keep price in this range.
 
I had one come in when I first started framing. She wanted to do the designing, have me put it together and give her a 30% discount since she did part of the work. I said no thanks. In later chatting with other frame shops in the area, she has been banned from most.
 
I agree with Bill Ward, the client and the decorator coming in together is full of pitfalls.

If the decorator feels intimidated by me and my brick and mortar they become antagonistic to prove their salt.

If the decorator is 'with me' and has brought a client it is just more bakers in the broth, it gets a bit overwhelming for the client.

Then comes the pricing, does the client get to hear the price or is that for later between myself and the decorator... often it is me who is juggling how the decorator gets their fee, if it my discount for their 'helpfulness' or weather they are on an hourly basis with their client. Does the decorator pay my earnest fee/deposit or does the client.

Mostly I hate it when they come together. Decorating for someone else must suck even worse and putting a price on advice and errand running for rich or indecisive ladies...sounds like pure Hades.I don't envy the decorators, I just find so much insecurity and unprofessional-ism among them that it leaves me double timing the sale.

If a decorator is looking for the lowest price, how is she making their fee? I smell fish. The bigger the sale the bigger her percentage. That decorator knew of a place where she gets her percentage and had no arrangement with the shop in question. You were at counter purposes, no way to win when you aren't being shown the true situation.
 
Last edited:
I do give IDs a discount. They are the only people that get one. If they are bringing business to me regularly, then I will quietly offer them a 15% discount. It applies only to things they are bringing in for customers of theirs (but yes, they do frame their own stuff sometimes), and THEY, the ID, must be paying for it themselves. If they send their customer in to pay for it, no discount. That way we always charge the same price to every end-customer that walks through our door.

And I am much more likely to get paid for doing the job, since I know the ID already and they have well established credit with me. They get to deal with the end customer and make sure they get paid.

Why give them a discount? So that they will bring customers to me. I don't mind paying them a finder's fee, as such. About half the time, the end customer comes in with the ID and helps pick what they want. And afterwards they will often come back to get more framing done, on their own, after they have learned they can trust us.

I have good relationships with many of the IDs around town. I have this kind of deal in place with 7 of them. The key is, as I said, they must already be brining new business to me regularly before I will offer this.
 
THEY, the ID, must be paying for it themselves. If they send their customer in to pay for it, no discount. That way we always charge the same price to every end-customer that walks through our door.

How do you work your invoice for this switch? do you alter the invoice while they are standing in your shop? What if the decorator told them what the balance was, and now it is different? Seems like each of my decorators has a different system and they expect me to keep track of it. It gets seriously awkward at times as I do not know the arrangements they have made. I do not want to get the decorator in hot water. Not all clients know the decorator is getting a 15% cut, and not all of them do.
A few years ago I switched from discounts to decorator framing credits to use on their own things.Seems to work as well for them and they have no paperwork to mess with.
 
How do you work your invoice for this switch? do you alter the invoice while they are standing in your shop? What if the decorator told them what the balance was, and now it is different? Seems like each of my decorators has a different system and they expect me to keep track of it. It gets seriously awkward at times as I do not know the arrangements they have made. I do not want to get the decorator in hot water. Not all clients know the decorator is getting a 15% cut, and not all of them do.

Normally, the work is listed in the ID's name, not the end customer's name. And I will just send the invoice to the ID.

However could it happen that the end customer comes in and insists on paying? Yes. I use Lifesaver as my POS. It's no problem to go in and remove the discount off the order. But only once in the 3 years that I've owned the shop has this happened, where the end customer was sent in by the decorator to pay for the item herself.

The IDs normally mark stuff up, but I do not know if they mark the framed items up to my normal price or not, and I don't have a way to control this. Then again, the ID has taken their time and spent effort to find a place to get the art framed, and helped make the selections, so it's only fair if they mark it up to whatever value they feel their services merit. It's not in their interest to surrender the 15% I give them plus whatever they may charge on top.
 
Then again, the ID has taken their time and spent effort to find a place to get the art framed, and helped make the selections,

This is why we don't give a discount at our shop. Our regular customers do the same thing. I respect an ID's scope. They work on a larger scale. It's infuriating when the one's that have no respect for the expertise on the scale we work at.

Sure there are some that are wonderful to work with, but most of them here have little respect or loyalty for our expertise. Why those that don't think it's okay to come in and take over the shop and everyone in it is reallybeyond me. I don't do the same to them and won't tolerate it (in a firm, but professional manner). Thanks to those that recognize our skills.
 
Back
Top