Golden fluid acrylic vs gouache for coloring bevels

Create a Post
cwphoto

cwphoto

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Posts
162
Loc
Alaska
Hi folks:

I've been playing around with various paints and pens for coloring bevels the last few days. Since I'm in Alaska and have to pay outrageous charges to ship everything I thought I would ask about fluid acrylics versus gouache. My understanding is that fluid acrylics are the consistency of heavy cream, so it doesn't sound like they need to be mixed with water, although I'm not sure about the drying time. Gouache from my understanding is an opaque watercolor, that I think is used in airbrush painting. I have never used either one so please excuse my ignorance if I'm incorrect.

Of these two paints, does anyone have suggestions on which one would be best for coloring bevels? Jim Miller suggested a calligraphy pen and believe he uses gouache.

My concern is about drying time as well as custom colors. With heavy bodied acrylics they dry very quickly, and if you thin them too much they bleed, not enough and they clump. When you start talking about custom colors it's difficult to replicate the color in the middle of a mat, so would like to find a product I can use straight out of the tube.

It seems like various pens work okay for black, assuming they are pigment-based. I think I'm going to stick with masking with 111, and a brush, although I would like to try a calligraphy pen.

Comments?

Troy
 
Gouache and Acrylic dry in about the same time. Fairly rapidly. I would go for acrylic for bevel coloring. Gouache remains soluble once dry but acrylic is virtually bullet-proof. Gouache dries matt whereas acrylic has a satin sheen, depending on how much you dilute it.
 
Golden Fluid acrylic seems to be a repackaging of their airbrush paint. It is more the consistency of milk than of cream. It is perfect for painting bevels. Gouache, being a watercolor, could bleed or transfer in high humidity conditions.

Don't use markers of any kind. I have a photo in my Bad Framer collection, where the marker bled onto the artwork. The artist was very unhappy!
 
If memory serves, Jim uses Speedball gouache inks, not straight gouache. If you haven't seen his work, he is extremely adept with a calligraphy pen. I use regular acrylic thinned with matte medium and/or the liquid acrylic for painting bevels. Both have longer open times than straight acrylic or gouache.

In the Olde Newes department.... Lion (distributed through Tech Mark) is recreating the Mat Magic products which include the ink, paints and powdered pastels.
 
For colored bevels and also for penlines (when hand-drawn) on mats, I prefer to use acrylic airbrush color, aka acrylic gouache. Ellen's right; it has a viscosity similar to whole milk. For mat work, I usually thin it to about the viscosity of 2% milk using filtered water. Anyway, thin it just enough to flow neatly through the pen without clogging or skipping. Intermix colors of the same brand as you wish. This fluid works so well that I also use it for all sorts of pen-embellishments and all styles of calligraphic lettering with either a pointed pen or broad pen, and Class II matboard is my favorite substrate for resolutions and such.

Acrylic airbrush color is better than traditional watercolor-based gouache because it doesn't soak into the paper's surface as much as traditional gouache does, so it mounds slightly above the surface. And when it is dry, the acrylic becomes a solid mound of plastic. So, if you want to add a watercolor wash between two pen lines, for example, the acrylic will serve as a dam and will not bleed when watercolor contacts it.

If you still prefer to use traditional gouache or watercolor on matboard, I suggest thinning to the viscosity of 2% milk and adding a small bit of powdered Gum Arabic, which makes it puddle nicely and reduces its tendency to bleed.

For coloring bevels I prefer a #2 Mitchell or 2 mm Brause broad pen nib with its reservoir tab installed, held at angles to span only the bevel's surface. One load of thinned acrylic airbrush color usually will run a length of about 12" to 16", depending on the matboard (cotton soaks up more fluid). Of course, use a good ruling pen for drawing lines.
 
Golden Fluid Acrylic paint is one of the things used for in-painting media losses (over an easy-to-remove varnish layer) here at the ICA. It's a high-quality paint with stable pigments in a good color range, and is easy to use.
 
Many thanks for all the replies! I'm going to pick up some fluid acrylics today, and perhaps a calligraphy pen to experiment with. I'm betting the calligraphy pen is going to be wasted on me, but perhaps I will surprise myself. I tend to not have very steady hands after crossing over the half-century mark. I'm betting that Jim is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to using calligraphy pens.

Best,

Troy
 
I specialize in paper based media, and I expect that at least 50% (some years 70%) of the mats that I do have some sort of colored bevels or mats. {I hate white bevels for most designs so.....}

I primarily use Golden Heavy Acrylic colors; I buy them in jars, and they last a long time, if you just take a very little (say 1/8 of a tsp) and place on a piece of scrap glass, and then close the jar lid. I like them because they can be thinned if you want, but normally I mix on glass with just a little water because they dry out quickly here in Colorado.

Some of the other methods discussed here can provide very nice single color bevels.

I prefer my method with the Golden Heavy Acrylic colors because you can get some really wonderful variegated bevels that cannot be duplicated with pen nubs.

An example of one of a set of 9 I did for a customer last year is given below. This customer has returned since, with another order of 9 (mats only), and today brought in 12 more to be done. He lives like 45 miles (and 10 framers) away, but loves the variegated bevels that I do. The bottom mat bevel is 4 ply; the top mat bevel is 8 ply attached to a solid rag mat.

Crow-001-IMG_0669-crop-low.jpg
 
Grey Owl said:
I specialize in paper based media, and I expect that at least 50% (some years 70%) of the mats that I do have some sort of colored bevels or mats. {I hate white bevels for most designs so.....}

I primarily use Golden Heavy Acrylic colors; I buy them in jars, and they last a long time, if you just take a very little (say 1/8 of a tsp) and place on a piece of scrap glass, and then close the jar lid. I like them because they can be thinned if you want, but normally I mix on glass with just a little water because they dry out quickly here in Colorado.

Some of the other methods discussed here can provide very nice single color bevels.

I prefer my method with the Golden Heavy Acrylic colors because you can get some really wonderful variegated bevels that cannot be duplicated with pen nubs.

An example of one of a set of 9 I did for a customer last year is given below. This customer has returned since, with another order of 9 (mats only), and today brought in 12 more to be done. He lives like 45 miles (and 10 framers) away, but loves the variegated bevels that I do. The bottom mat bevel is 4 ply; the top mat bevel is 8 ply attached to a solid rag mat.

View attachment 19559
Click to expand...

Those are really beautiful Russ. Reminds me a lot of a faux finish. I'd like to see some more examples of your work if you have any available.

Are you thinning any of your acrylics with liquitex? I actually have a bottle of the slow-dry additive I tried out today, and that even works with the fluid acrylics. It's a good way to slow down the drying. The bottle of fluid acrylics I bought today (gold iridescent) was certainly not the consistency of milk, but maybe that's because of the flakes? I think they do behave better than the heavy body acrylics. For these multicolored techniques, I'm assuming there is something similar to a glaze that you use, just like you do for painting walls. Essentially an acrylic without any color. That's the one part I didn't understand with your technique. One of the paints or several of them have to be translucent to get blends. It certainly a nice look, and sets you apart from the crowd.

For basic black, I do like the way a marker handles, but have been warned by more than one person to stay away from any dyes. I know there are a few pigment type markers out there they may work.
 
Excellent, Russ!

I find it very interesting.
I use scraps of glass to mix and thin also. (it's pretty dry in AZ as well).
You know what they say about great minds....:thumbsup:
 
cwphoto said:
Those are really beautiful Russ. Reminds me a lot of a faux finish. I'd like to see some more examples of your work if you have any available.

Are you thinning any of your acrylics with liquitex? I actually have a bottle of the slow-dry additive I tried out today, and that even works with the fluid acrylics. It's a good way to slow down the drying. The bottle of fluid acrylics I bought today (gold iridescent) was certainly not the consistency of milk, but maybe that's because of the flakes? I think they do behave better than the heavy body acrylics. For these multicolored techniques, I'm assuming there is something similar to a glaze that you use, just like you do for painting walls. Essentially an acrylic without any color. That's the one part I didn't understand with your technique. One of the paints or several of them have to be translucent to get blends. It certainly a nice look, and sets you apart from the crowd.

For basic black, I do like the way a marker handles, but have been warned by more than one person to stay away from any dyes. I know there are a few pigment type markers out there they may work.
Click to expand...

To answer some of your questions:

1. I only thin my acrylics with water. Or retarder if I want a smooth color without variegation.(eg red-black)
2. Using the heavier acrylics and a little water gives me a slight variation of thickness and color.
3. I tape with 811 on the surface, and cut from the back.
4. I start with a base over the complete bevel, and have some overlap in a random pattern.
5. I add additional colors / layers in a random / sporadic method. Generally I use a max of 3 colors in addition to the base color.
6. Acrylics dry very fast (at least here), so if I'm doing two windows, by the time I have put one color on the second mat, I can go back to the first, and apply the next color, so no wasted time.
7. Good acrylics, no matter the brand, are pigment based.
8. Practice with scraps, and have plenty of samples. It is an easy sell.

Another photo, a close up, shows the variegation a little better.

IMG_0966-low.jpg
 
Thanks for sharing the technique Russ. I thought for sure you were using translucent washes. I actually suspect that faux finish techniques would work on bevels. I don't know the different names of the artist paint products out there, but I think there is a liquitex product that can be used to make washes. In at least one faux finish technique I can think of (sponge off) You put a darker color on first, then coat completely with a lighter second color, and sponge off the color creating a mottled effect. A third color could also be added. You are achieving this look with solid colors, which is really surprising to me. Obviously it works and is selling, so I think I may give it a shot! I'm sure this would work nicely on open v-grooves designs as well.

Best,

Troy
 
cwphoto said:
Thanks for sharing the technique Russ. I thought for sure you were using translucent washes. I actually suspect that faux finish techniques would work on bevels. I don't know the different names of the artist paint products out there, but I think there is a liquitex product that can be used to make washes. In at least one faux finish technique I can think of (sponge off) You put a darker color on first, then coat completely with a lighter second color, and sponge off the color creating a mottled effect. A third color could also be added. You are achieving this look with solid colors, which is really surprising to me. Obviously it works and is selling, so I think I may give it a shot! I'm sure this would work nicely on open v-grooves designs as well.

Best,

Troy
Click to expand...

There are many great techniques for coloring bevels.

I remember one I saw in an emal from Karen Haverstock (haverstock custom framing in Prince Edward Island? I believe, sorry if I have that wrong Karen) that was done with pastels and cotton that looked really great!

The key is to figure out methods that you can easily do in a profitable and predictable manner.

Good luck. If you have any other questions you can PM me.
 
I've always described Golden's Fluid acrylics as more cream-like in consistency. They recently replaced their old Airbrush acrylic line with a new formulation that they call High Flow acrylics, which is more of a milk-like consistency. Those work great in paint markers, and they have a new set coming out in the next couple of weeks that includes five colors of the High Flow acrylics and three empty paint markers. Montana and Molotow are two brands of empty paint markers that work well with them.

I have no experience with coloring bevels, but two other products that may be worth checking out are Holbein's Acryla Gouache (dries permanently since it is an acrylic, but matte and opaque like a gouache) and L&B's Flashe Vinyl paint (dries similarly permanent and matte).
 
jimwins said:
I've always described Golden's Fluid acrylics as more cream-like in consistency. They recently replaced their old Airbrush acrylic line with a new formulation that they call High Flow acrylics, which is more of a milk-like consistency. Those work great in paint markers, and they have a new set coming out in the next couple of weeks that includes five colors of the High Flow acrylics and three empty paint markers. Montana and Molotow are two brands of empty paint markers that work well with them.

I have no experience with coloring bevels, but two other products that may be worth checking out are Holbein's Acryla Gouache (dries permanently since it is an acrylic, but matte and opaque like a gouache) and L&B's Flashe Vinyl paint (dries similarly permanent and matte).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips. I think I remember seeing some high flow acrylics yesterday at Michael's. I had no idea what they were, so will have to try a tube. I am somewhat familiar with the Montana markers, although a number of people complained they bleed too much with the acrylic paints they are stocked with. I can say of the few markers I've tried they are very fast compared to painting, although probably less controllable in terms of bleed.
 
I use acrylics. If it bleeds when using the 811 tape, you can take a very fine sandpaper and sand it down.

Have fun and good luck. I'm sure you'll master it very quickly.
 
Grey Owl said:
I remember one I saw in an email from Karen Haverstock (haverstock custom framing in Prince Edward Island? I believe, sorry if I have that wrong Karen) that was done with pastels and cotton that looked really great!
Click to expand...

You're close, Russ - it's Haverstock Creative Designs in Nova Scotia ;) Thanks for the compliment on my coloured bevels using pastels.
 
Twin2 said:
You're close, Russ - it's Haverstock Creative Designs in Nova Scotia ;) Thanks for the compliment on my coloured bevels using pastels.
Click to expand...

Sorry, close, but still a couple of hundred miles off, depending. Well, I remembered it was in the Maritimes, does that count?

But, yes your pastel bevels are wonderful, and I had to go back and change all of my notes on painted bevels to include what you do. Thank you!
 
It certainly does count, Russ - I was impressed that you knew I lived in the Maritimes.

Sorry, Troy, for going off topic.
 
I use acrylics for everything......but....never the "artist" grade. Hate them. I use the little squeeze bottles of acrylic you can get at he BB stores or craft/hobby shops. Durable mixable and dries dead flat(unless specified otherwise on the bottle) ,and waterproof. I have used these on everything from "fine art" to murals and fabrics for years with no bad results. L
 
Create a Post
Back
Top