Gold touch ups

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leviegray

leviegray

True Grumbler
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Posts
97
Loc
Molokai, Hawaii
Greetings to the Grumble Kingdom. I am a humble new framer on Moloka'i - a small island in Hawaii. I am wondering if anyone can offer me some advice/ wisdom about touch-ups - especially on gold frames. I seem to be having trouble avoiding getting small nic's scratches on some of my gold frames and fillets and everything I have tried to do to fix it stands out like a sore thumb... Also any advice on sources to learn about doing fillets better?

Thanks! What a wonderful resource!

Aloha

Levie Yamazaki-Gray
 
Levie,
Perhaps if you were to go into a bit more detail on what you have tried as far as touching up is concerned, then we can offer some suggestions.
Same with the fillets...what technology are you using, and what specifically is the problem.
Welcome to the Grumble, by the way.
 
More detail...

Thanks Wally

lets see... well first I have now learned how any residual glue can discolor the gold. I have tried a gold touch up pen I bought and also some gold paint but there seem to be many colors so I am not sure how to match well... Guess I was just looking for any tricks/ insights as well as suggestions for materials to use etc..

As far as fillets I dont have a cutter or chopper. I am trying to do them with a miter saw and mitersander on my tablesaw. I read descriptions of how several people mount them in posts in the archives but have been having truble developing a system for myself. One problem is that my saw is in my shop at home where I have been cutting and joining the frames and my mat cuttter and assembly room is in the store about 2 miles away. I have been cutting fillets at home and them bringing them in and cutting and fitting them into mats. I was last working with a small gold fillet and tried glueing and clamping with binder clips and mat padding as someone had described but had trouble getting my mat opening just the right size and with all the fiddling I guess I scratched the gold paint in a few places... I know that part of my problem is that I don't have a fillet cutter in the shop so that I can fine tune.... I have ordered hand shears but I am starting the store on a shoestring and don't think I will be doing enough fillets to justify buying a fillet cutter. Again just looking for tricks/insights.... Would also love to have recommendations on a more durable gold fillet than the LJX 0466 whose paint seems particularly fragile.

Aloha
 
Welcome, Levie! I watched a wonderful program on PBS last night about the Hawaiian men doing Hula competition....beautiful , spiritual and awesome!

Oh yeah.....back on track...maybe you should find out what's causing the scuffs, scratches and marks to begin with....preventative maintenance? When I handle gold frames and fillets, I wear cotton gloves.....my wedding ring will scratch (can't get it off). Also, how are you shipping/sawing/chopping/handling/unwrapping/prepping/storing? Fillets..for me, I've found that my chopper blades must be very sharp, otherwise, they will "pull" off the gold, revealing the red underneath. I hate it when that happens! Sometimes a gold acrylic paint spot will help, or a gold leaf pen, but there are so many colors of gold, and you're right....very hard to matchy-matchy.

Best to watch how it's handled to begin with...verrrrry carefully.
 
At the very least, invest in a Fillet Master. Whether you use a miter saw or a chopper, it will make measuring fillets much easier.
 
From what you describe, it seems that the binder clips are what scratched the fillet. Am I right on that?

I glue up fillets in my mitre vise. That way nothing is clamped on the face of the fillet. Just handle it with reasonable care so the corners don't break apart.
 
In my experience it is almost impossible to touch up gold finished mouldings to any sort or satisfactory standard. Any paint will always look dull against the original foil and show up worse than the original damage. The only place you just ever so might get away with it is in the very corner of a top mitre where it is in shadow. Anywhere else you may as well save yourself the aggro and recut the frame - it will be quicker. As for fillets - I have always found them to be too much of a pain in the you-know- what to bother with them.
 
You have a very difficult geographic challenge having your woodworking equipment and your mat cuting equipment in two different locations.
One suggestion I would make is to cut the mat first and then fit the fillet to the opening rather than the other way around.
Your method of attachment is the method I use, and done properly should not scratch the fillet's finish.
 
My recommendation for learning how to match finishes, particularly gold finishes, is to accumulate as many different colors and shades of acrylic gold paint as you can afford to buy. You can buy little bottles at most craft stores for around .99¢ each. (My present collection of acrylics is over 60 bottles!) Then, as you become more skilled at hitting a match using black, brown, red, or whatever tints you need to make the gold closer to the finish in question, buy some of the Baroque Art Gilder's Paste and some of the Liberon creams and black patinating wax and Black Bison tinted waxes from UMS. these are a step up from using the acrylic matches and can be applied and controlled better than paint. The gilder's pastes can be blended together much the same as acrylic paint and they can be thinned with mineral spirits or turpentine and "aged" with a final application of tinted wax after the paste tints are dry. With a little practice, you will learn when to thin and when to apply with a spatula to fill in and when to wipe on for a surface match.


All of these techniques are far easier to learn than to talk about as they require some spot judgement as you work with them but it isn't all that difficult to learn. Practice on some scrap moulding until you get the blending and the tinting down and you should do OK. Remember that you only need to mix a very small amount for most repairs. You don't want to wind up throwing away most of what you mix because you overdid the mixture! :p


Good luck.
 
Well, I'm not sure what you are talking about??

My post shows up on my screen in the same font and size as yours.

Hmmmmmm............
 
Pat's right, Tom, your post #9 did show a little smaller than normal, but not that much smaller. Looks like a different font? Your last post, #11, is back to "normal". Hmmmm...
 
Levie,

First let me welcome you to the Grumble.

Not cheap, but will last almost forever is Guilders paste and a small stiff oil paint brush, almost a stippling brush.
Dry brush by pickng up very little paste, wipe it a couple of times on a scrap glass chunk until it only lays down a translucent film... touch up and wipe with a tissue or Q-tip. Any more work than that and I would start questioning whether you weren't being just a little too anal.

If/when you run into her, say hi to Nancy Gove for me. Tell her I could use some more of her kieavie fire wood.... it is the most beautiful wood to turn.
And I miss the dirt coffee.
 
Val said:
Pat's right, Tom, your post #9 did show a little smaller than normal, but not that much smaller. Looks like a different font? Your last post, #11, is back to "normal". Hmmmm...
Click to expand...

Hmmm, and my "edit" time has expired so I can't even go in and see what was different about that post.

Well, all I can do is offer my apologies to one and all for making you squint!
 
Welcome, and the best to you in your new ventures. I too have have had nothing but problems with x0466. The corners always have some discrepancy and you just look at it crooked and it will get a scratch, so you are not the only one. I have a fillet chopper, a miter saw you name it and I have problems with that fillet no matter what I do. I look forward to reading any solutions to this problem as well.
 
Thanks folks!

Aloha!

Thanks to all for their welcomes and suggestions. Tom, I particularly enjoyed your reclaimer however I would caution you to not become too concerned about size- it's such a guy thing.... And Val yes the hula is wonderful. On Moloka'i Ka hula piko is coming up soon. Its some of the most graceful and spiritual of the male hula I have seen.

And to one and all l-let me know if you are ever in Hawaii and want to drop by Moloka'i. We have extra space in our guest apt downstairs, next to my shop. As long as you don'y mind my one and three year olds as frequent curious visitors.

I am sure I will probabally be back frequently as I am young on the learning curve.....

And I would still welcome any more durable options to the LJX fillet and where to get it.

Aloha Nui loa
 
Modern gilding can be so smooth and bright that it will make any particulate paint look dull.
If there is a chip, acrylic paint can be used to fill it and leaf (karat or brass) can be laid on the paint, while it is still wet. When the paint if finally dry, the unbonded part of the leaf can be brushed away. This will not work on a scratch that does not break the surface, unfortunately.



Hugh
 
I went to the LJ website to see which fillet that was.... but my eyes just can't make it out.

The closest I could find was this one from Williamson Co.
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]09-0000-8709[/FONT]

This is such a common profile that most mfgs have something in this line.
 
leviegray said:
Aloha!

Tom, I particularly enjoyed your reclaimer however I would caution you to not become too concerned about size- it's such a guy thing.... Aloha Nui loa
Click to expand...

Well Levie, I'm afraid you're gonna have to explain that one to me ............................... I'm old, doncha know!!

The "reclaimer" is my side of a standing joke on the Grumble that surfaces every couple of years and has nothing to do with anything but picky readers for the most part.

I've been bumpin' around the dusty corners of the Grumble since 2001 ................. mostly under another name, ......... long story, and have thrown out my opinions to most anyone who hesitates to tell me not to so you will probably get further opinions, hints, and tips from me and a boatload of other framers on this forum.

You will find a wealth of information here that will do nothing but make you a better framer and possibly add a little humor to your day.

Stick around, the fun is just starting!!
 
Hi Levie, Welcome to the Grumble! You have already gotten great advice on touch ups but I wanted to jump in and tell you you are not alone when it comes to LJ x0466. It is a miserable finish and chips very easily. I have always cermoniously dumped that particular fillet into the trash at any shop I have run. Not worth the trouble. Not kwite sure why LJ has that finish, I don't have a problem with any of their others. Just that one, I hate it.

Nothing against LJ, they sell fine products, just not x0466.
 
Years ago x0466 was one of LJs best fillets - I used hundreds of feet every year. Then they changed something in the manufacturing and almost every chop resulted in the finish chipping. My plant manager (also my rep) recently gave me 2 sticks to try it again - it still chips with brand new blades. I recently had batches of 150CG and 150CS (my bread and butter base fillets) do the same thing. The latest batch seems OK. I'm crossing my fingers. There are several other small gold and silver fillets, but they don't have as nice a finish.
 
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