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Hoffmann Dovetail Joining System

Question Going big and wanting to go home.

Preparerator

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
4
Hi all,

Long time forum watcher - first time poster. I am the lead framer and preparator at the Warhol museum. We are getting ready for an up-and-coming artist show and our curators have promised (without discussion *eyeroll*) to frame some artists' work here at the museum. Now, mind you, we do a ton of framing here - so my colleague and I are used to high volume. However, Andy's paper work usually doesn't go much larger than 60 x 60 - so my instock mat board is only 60 x 104. And I am really not equipped to frame paper work much larger than that at the high volume that is promised to these artists. But, somehow I am going to have to make it work. So before I start this project, I wanted to see if anyone out there may have a supplier or product that they would recommend that would be either matboard that is 90 x 90 or wider or some sort of archival paper-like substrate substitute in white/off white/cream/ivory. I am float mounting everything, so luckily I wont have to cut a ridiculous stack of giant windows by hand. But, I wanted to see if there may be something out there that would keep me from having to splice a bunch of mats (also by hand). Price doesn't matter - in fact, the pricier the better. We have already started pricing the glazing and it is already costing us many times more than my yearly salary. It may be an incentive for the curators to think twice before promising such a project in the future.
 

Lafontsee

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
409
I am not aware of any substrate as large as you need. The first thing that comes to mind would be a fabric covered substrate if you can find a roll of fabric wide enough.

For large fabric items we have stretched fiberglass window screen over a strainer, then stretched linen over the fiberglass screen. The fiberglass won't sag and supports the fabric. Maybe there's some way to modify this technique to work for your project. You could likely splice backers and cover them with fabric.

Good luck!
James
 

wpfay

Comfort Badger
Forum Support Team
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11,030
Hi Preparerator, Welcome to the G.

I suppose you have tried the usual suspects: Rising, Crescent, Bainbridge, but have you contacted Peterborough? Alan Yaffe, member here on the G going by Sonny, is the owner of Peterborough, and since they manufacture their own product, might have some ideas about resourcing mats that size. http://www.peterboromatboards.com

Otherwise I would check with Legion Paper, who owns Rising, and see if they have some kind of roll paper that you could laminate to a supporting substrate. Talk with Michael Ambrosio, one of their account reps, and he can help you find it if they have it. michaela@legionpaper.com (212) 683-6990. if you call, leave a message as they might not yet be staffing the HQ on a regular basis.
 

Preparerator

Grumbler in Training
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
4
Hi Preparerator, Welcome to the G.

I suppose you have tried the usual suspects: Rising, Crescent, Bainbridge, but have you contacted Peterborough? Alan Yaffe, member here on the G going by Sonny, is the owner of Peterborough, and since they manufacture their own product, might have some ideas about resourcing mats that size. http://www.peterboromatboards.com

Otherwise I would check with Legion Paper, who owns Rising, and see if they have some kind of roll paper that you could laminate to a supporting substrate. Talk with Michael Ambrosio, one of their account reps, and he can help you find it if they have it. michaela@legionpaper.com (212) 683-6990. if you call, leave a message as they might not yet be staffing the HQ on a regular basis.
Thank you and thank you! I will reach out to Peterborough. We mainly use Rising at the museum - I didn't think to contact Legion directly. But, it would definitely be nice if Legion had something that would match the warm white that I usually use.
 

wpfay

Comfort Badger
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Legion will have the entire Rising line including rolls of barrier paper and 1 ply rag. I don't have their Excel files at home, so I can't look up anything. What you are looking for may not be on the regular price list, and it may not necessarily be a Rising product. Legion owns and reps many brand name papers. If you really want to spend money, you can order a custom run just for this job. You do have all the time in the world, right?
 
Rian Fabrication Services  www.rianfabrication.com

Shayla

WOW Framer
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Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
31,648
The only part that has to look good is what shows between the paper and the outside. What's hidden needs to be safe and structurally sound, but it doesn't have to be pretty.

You could have a sturdy, archivally-safe backing substrate, (whether one piece or spliced), and wrap the whole thing in fabric. Or, you could cut strips of fabric, wide enough to both hide under the art and wrap around the back. If you have hidden float platforms behind the art, you'd need to make sure the fabric goes far enough to still be hidden, even with that space. I can also imagine painting over splices, but I have no idea what kind of paint is conservation quality. Or if there even is such a critter.

90 x 90 is pretty big, though, and well-overlapped white linen probably wouldn't be too much of a distraction.
 

Preparerator

Grumbler in Training
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
4
The only part that has to look good is what shows between the paper and the outside. What's hidden needs to be safe and structurally sound, but it doesn't have to be pretty.

You could have a sturdy, archivally-safe backing substrate, (whether one piece or spliced), and wrap the whole thing in fabric. Or, you could cut strips of fabric, wide enough to both hide under the art and wrap around the back. If you have hidden float platforms behind the art, you'd need to make sure the fabric goes far enough to still be hidden, even with that space. I can also imagine painting over splices, but I have no idea what kind of paint is conservation quality. Or if there even is such a critter.

90 x 90 is pretty big, though, and well-overlapped white linen probably wouldn't be too much of a distraction.
Personally, I do like the option of fabric and was my initial thought several months ago when we first started talking about this project. However, the museum and the artist do not, much to my dismay.
 

Preparerator

Grumbler in Training
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
4
Legion will have the entire Rising line including rolls of barrier paper and 1 ply rag. I don't have their Excel files at home, so I can't look up anything. What you are looking for may not be on the regular price list, and it may not necessarily be a Rising product. Legion owns and reps many brand name papers. If you really want to spend money, you can order a custom run just for this job. You do have all the time in the world, right?
Right... 11 (full) weeks left and I still don't have the art in my hands yet. It sounds like a long time. But I have a feeling that on top of paying for the materials, they are going to be paying me some major overtime hours.
 

i-FRAMER

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
845
We use ply or 10mm boards such as gator etc. Splice them together and painted. The artwork we actually raise float over the boards so they are not in direct contact. We use strips of rag mat hinged to the artwork. Then they get be spot glued to the raise float material (which is spot glued to the backing board). We use a double frame, (usually 1 is on its side and used as the spacer to the acrylic).
 
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David Waldmann

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Feb 6, 2002
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Not sure if this material would be suitable, but it's 79" wide and comes in 20 or 50 yard rolls. Obviously, it would need to be mounted to some other subtrate.

 

David Waldmann

Herder of cats
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Smallcorp may be able to help you out with these

Small Corp seems a rather ironic name for a company that deals in Big Stuff. Their History page gives no insight as to the meaning/origin of the name.

FYI, I am meaning no disrespect for them, I have only ever only heard Very Good things about them.
 

wpfay

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If FrameCon happens, the two destinations outside of the event that would be a must for me would be SmallCorp and Vermont Hardwoods. Both small businesses doing big things.
 

Matthew Hale

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
527
If FrameCon happens, the two destinations outside of the event that would be a must for me would be SmallCorp and Vermont Hardwoods. Both small businesses doing big things.
two of my favorites, and go-to destinations for the Good Stuff.
 
W.D Quinn Saw Co. - US Made Picture Frame Blades
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