Glassing needle art

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Kit aka emrr

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The 'Presentation' thread was getting long when it got to the topic of needle art so I thought I'd start a new one on glassing it. I meet with a lot of resistance when I suggest conservation glass on needle art. I explain about UV protection, I explain about spacers, I even occasionally resort to horror stories about disasters I've seen. And still I hear "Oh, you NEVER put glass on stitchery". It's their piece and if I can't talk them out of leaving it naked to the world I do as they ask but include a note on the work order: no glass at customer's request. Are the rest of you encountering this no glass dogma and how do you address it? Kit

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Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
 
Yep, we get that a lot, too. It's especially bad when they insist on having mats put on the needlework and we explain that the mats will buckle without glass. They always say but that's how they've had it done before and it's fine. I doubt it.
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I have heard this also but not so much anymore. One of the main reasons is I tell thee Needleartist That a class i attended with the Noted Needle art instructer Marion Scholar said that in light of todays polutants it's worse to leave Needleart unglazed. This is not to mention smokers ,cooking fumes and other normal things like viewers that just can't resist touching the work.
I think this old opinion comes from the belief that needle art like Oils neede to breath. Ask Orton this isn't even trrue of oils.Still another fear is that the sweating of the glazing will ruin the work ,then we explain what the real purpose of acid free mats are.
try some of this and see if their opinions change.
BUDDY
 
The truth about needleart...

The older needlepoint was made with wool, which holds moisture, and has been known to mold if put behind glass.

Todays' needlepoint is done in acrylic yarn or sometimes cotton thread, therefore is not going to hold the moisture like it did in the olden days. Cross stitch is done with cotton or rayon, not wool. And I won't even get in to the Japanese embroidery.

As far as framing goes, you only want to check as see if it is made with wool. Then no matter what you choose, PLEASE have space between the stitchery and the glass. The air MUST be able to move.

Good O'l Sue
(See?!?! Growing up in a craft store did become useful in my adult life.)
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I've seen oils paintings in museums that are behind glass (or is it acrylic? I'm sure the guards wouldn't be happy if I tried to find out!). Of course the environmental conditions in museums are optimal one would hope. What's the reason some paintings are behind glazing and others are not? Protection from vandalism? Being loaned to other museums?

[This message has been edited by Jana (edited February 08, 2001).]
 
Most of the objections to glazing over textile work, and for that matter, oil paintings, is historical intertia.

Apart from the artist's requirement for aesthetics, glazing protects the art - period.

Properly installed, glazing will reduce damage potential from light, air pollution, dust, insects, hand-touching, and yes, from people sneezing all over it.

Glazing over oils and textiles, for the purposes of protection, is recommended by CCI.
 
Another thought about oils, and why some are not behind glass.

Oils take time to dry, the thicker the paint the longer it takes to dry. If only one side of the canvas is sealed, and the paint is still wet, it may dry unevenly and crack. If the paint is dry, (for more than a few years.), there should be no reason not to put it behind glazing.

Acrylic paints, like watercolor, dry while the artist is working, and therefore should have no problems going behind glazing.

Sue
(How do I keep getting up on a soap box? Someone help me back down.)
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A few years ago I was in a museum and noticed two people poking and discussing a large oil painting. I asked about their conversation saying I was interested as a framer. They were conservators and dealing with the question of glass. The museum management wanted glass to protect the painting from vandalism. The conservators didn't like the glass in the frame idea. We had a good discussion and the idea arose to hang a frameless glass panel about 6 inches in front of the painting rather than trying to put it in the frame. This was the idea they decided to present to the museum managment. I wonder if that's what they did.
 
I think some of that glass on museum pieces is bullet proof - probably overkill on Aunt Tillie's cross stitched easter bunnies. Maybe not. Some of those bunnies are pretty nasty looking and I did once have a piece brought into the shop to have the glass replaced because of bullet holes. But I digress. (What else is new?) Thanks to everyone for your support and good ideas. Kit

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Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
 
In the context of glazing oils, the discussion often is really about aesthetics concerns, and not really about protection.
Museums and art galleries are not always the best places to see how framing meets recommended standards and procedures. Curators and museum conservators are just as prone to not keeping up to current technology as are framers.

Even though CCI recommends glazing and recommends a solid protective medium for the verso, it is not uncommon to see evidence of traditional thinking still being employed in reputable museums and galleries.

It is also not uncommon to witness these same museums and galleries elicit traditional concern about allowing oils "to breathe" while at the same time, the oil-art over which their concern has been expressed has had its recto jammed up against the rabbet bead -("We've always done it that way.")

Depending upon the thickness of the impasto, oils can take many years to cure. While they are curing, their surfaces are "softer" and are prone to mechanical damage and to foreign matter adhering e.g. dust, airborne solids. Glazing protects the surface.

In the past, oils were not glazed primarily because it was thought that they needed unhindered ventilation to aid in their curing process. The same school of thought promoted the open (holed) back or perforated paper finish used to close up framed oils - BUT, in the past, airborne pollution and contamination was not a major consideration.

It has been demonstrated that chemical curing will proceed whether or not oil-art is freely ventilated. Solvents that evaporate during the curing process can and do escape through the fibrous mass of matboard filler, dustpaper, Tyvek, etc., unless an impervious barrier has been installed e.g. MarvelSeal and ordinary foils.

It is possible that the rate at which the solvents evaporate may be slowed down by installing glass, but a slower cure time usually mitigates the tendency for impasto and heavy layers to crack - rapid drying and curing will often encourage cracking - that is why artists are taught not to force-dry oils.

Prudence suggests that if impasto is exceptionally heavy, the art should cure for an appropriate period of time in a controlled environment before the art is presented for framing. This is the artist's responsibility.

It is the c-p framer's responsibility to ensure that nothing done to the art while it was being framed will alter its condition.
 
As usual, the last and best word. Orton, we're lucky to have you here. Kit
 
I'm one of those framers that LOVES to frame needlework since I do so much of it myself. Many of the designs are now being stitched on linen fabric with silk threads and are truly luxurious when finished.

I've always recommended UV glass for my customers but I recently spoke with a woman who has done extensive research on shoolgirl samplers from the 1700-1800's. She is very knowledgeable about linens and their care and made the comment that she, and some conservators, had learned that linen pieces framed with UV glass seemed to deteriorate and fade more quickly than pieces framed with regular glass. She indicated that this seemed to be occurring in pieces framed within the last few years and it seemed to be the result of some kind of interaction between the UV coating and the linen. She said it has only been noted on certain kinds of linen.

Anybody ever hear of this? Orton, your knowledge on this subject would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Angela
 
If someone wants mats, but no glass on their needlework, I put one layer of batting between the mounting board and the stitchery. It raises the work up to the level of the mat so there is no gap. I also try to sell them at least a double or triple mat. Gives it a little more stability. Another thing you could sell to the no-glass customer is a liner instead of a mat. They come in a variety of widths and colors and look beautiful.
 
If I feel the words won't offend the customer I tell them if they don't want glass we should use a suede or fabric mat because fly poop will brush off whereas it stains paper mats. They usually ask for glass.
 
Wonderful, Scarfinger! Droppings might be more PC then poop, but poop works. Your posts(the humor)remind me of my brother-in-law. Are you related to a guy named Doug from Michigan?
 
Scarfinger!

Thanks for covering my computer monitor with Coke--I choked on it when I read your elegantly phrased response to the no-glass dilemma. LOL!

While i hesitate to say anything further on needle-art *grin* I have encountered this no-glass insistence on both oils and needleart, and I usually tell people that if they want mats on either one, NOTHING looks tackier than exposed mats. Seriously. Looks like it never left the prep bin. "Are you gonna finish that?"
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Thanks, btw, Susan--I didn't know that about wools vs. cotton. I always like having solid information behind my personal opinions.
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I don't care what color your sofa is.
 
Hate to double-post like this--but on the subject of glassing oils, I framed two fifty-year old oils, and for the sake of conservation, I sold the customer a frame and liner, and put UV glass on TOP of the liner, rather than on the artwork, and it came out looking far more elegant than just the liner and frame alone....

AND GET THIS. Another framer--one of those know-it-alls--CALLED the customer and told her that I had made a mistake--didn't know what I was doing--and that you should NEVER put any kind of glass anywhere NEAR an oil. (He narrowly escaped with his life.) It took me half an hour to explain to the customer that her oils were half a century old, that of course they were dry by now, that the glass wasn't touching the paint, and that they were better protected behind glass than they were while exposed to her cigarettes and cooking grease. Not to mention that the back was open anyway, so they were still "breathing" just fine.

*sheepishly* Anybody know of any way that I could be wrong?

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I don't care what color your sofa is.
 
Sorry Margaret, no Dougs in my family.

In guilding they teach how to simulate fly poop. That's what those specks are on old leaf - causes corrosion.
 
I'm curious, just who is this framer who called YOUR customer, telling her that you should not have put glass on them, and in the process undermining you?

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Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful or believe to be beautiful." William Morris (1834-0896)
 
LOL Dave.

He's one of those people who've been framing since he was "knee high to a grasshopper," and since he pulled the order out of the prep bin on my day off, he didn't ask me about it--just assumed he knew best, called the customer, and tried to make himself sound more experienced than me by telling her I "meant well, but didn't know much about conservation."

And he is more experienced than me, I will admit. But there is a certain advantage to being young in this field, because you do not assume that the methods of thirty years ago are still valid today. *sigh*

For the record, my boss was just as mad at him as I was, and told him off better than I could've. *grin*

(And just last week I had to take apart and re-do an order that he finished, because the glass was covered in finger-prints. On the inside. I couldn't resist asking him if he wanted to prove that the most experienced fingers in the shop had framed it...)

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I don't care what color your sofa is.
 
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