Glass x 2

Paul N

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A customer wants to frame 2 sheets of paper between 2 panes of glass (not plexi, so static mount is not an option), no mats. Just a frame to hold the glass.

What's the best way to keep the sheets in place?

Somebody mentioned a drop of 3M 77 on either corner, another mentioned mylar corners(?)

Or is there a way to generate enough static in the glass to use nothing??

Please keep in mind the letters to be framed are valuable (sentimentally).

PS: Please don't tell me it's another dead horse; Search produced an empty saddle... ;)
 

Doug Gemmell

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Paul,

The terms "valuable" and "between glass" do not work together well.

I would try to talk them into using mats on both sides and corner pockets to hold the paper. You could make the mats small enough so that they would be barely noticeable or even invisible under the rabbet.

I would go another step and recommend UV plex for protection of the "valuable" paper. :D
 

Bluewing

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Ihad a customer who wanted old historic photos between two panes of glass and what I ended up using was these photo dots that are little dots that are sticky however they roll off the paper and you can barely see them they are acid free and you just peel back the tape and use a little or a lot. Worked perfect. Another product that I have used is the same sticky dots that are used in magazines to hold those annoying card stock inserts in them. Not sure about the acidity of that so only use if no value on the work.
 

Jim Miller

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Originally posted by Paul N:
A customer wants to frame 2 sheets of paper between 2 panes of glass..
Stop right there.

That's the point at which I suggest informing the customer that framing the papers that way would invite their destruction. Preservation framing may provide an attractive presentation, but a glass sandwich is not a good idea.

If both sides and the edges of the documents are to be visible, I suggest making a clear polyester film encapsulation mount, with window mats front and back. It is protective as well as visually attractive.
 

Paul N

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Jim:

I agree with you. But, this customer is a very difficult guy. We tried that approach (and others) and he got more difficult.

When a customer comes with his own pre-conceived idea and doesn't want any other advice, there is nothing I really can do.
 

Rick Granick

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there is nothing I really can do.
Actually, that may be your best option in this case. If you do something that harms his objects he'll come back later and blame you, no matter how much he insists now. You've already established that he is a difficult person. If he won't accept the presentation Jim just described I'd politely apologize and refuse the job. I know many say we have to give the customer what he wants, but sometimes you have to protect yourself too.
kaffeetrinker_2.gif
Rick
 

Jim Miller

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Rick's position on the issue of liability is the safest one, but this is a retail business. We are supposed to do what our customers want us to do -- at least that's what they think. At some point we have to decide whether to take the risk, or let the customer walk.

I have taken the hard line suggested by Rick on occasion, but only two customers have literally walked out on me. All of the others changed their attitude when they realized that the concern is real and not just a tactic to inflate the price. I think that is the initial reaction of most of those "difficult" customers. "It costs more, so I don't want it."

The way we approach the liability issue has a lot to do with the results, I think. Our job, as I see it, is to help customers make informed decisions.

But when a customer wants me to violate my rules of preservation framing, I ask him/her to sign my "Waiver of Liability", a special form I made up and printed in color. (It looks quite official, but according to my lawyer, there is no legal salvation for ill-informed framing -- the liability remains, regardless of any signed waiver.) Nobody ever reads the waiver -- it's waaay too long, but all it really says is that the undersigned accepts full responsibility and releases the company and all associates from all liability forever.

When I push that page to their side of the table and offer a pen for their signature, they hesitate. (It helps if you offer a really good Mont Blanc or Waterman fountain pen.) To date, not one person has signed my form.

The usual result is that we talk further and find common ground. And we all live happily ever after.
 

Rick Granick

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Jim, your approach makes good sense. Believe me, I would be loathe to turn away a paying customer if there was a way to satisfy their needs without putting myself in jeopardy. In this instance, the customer's difficult nature would raise my internal warning flag.
I do have a simpler version of your form for such occasions, but I rarely have to use it. Usually they come around, as you say, when they see my first concern is for the safety of their object. I usually compare it to the Hippocractic oath, "First, do no harm".
I used the line just the other evening when a couple wanted to cut down a long antique Chinese scroll painting.
I've convinced them to treat it as the object it is and simply roll the ends in some to reduce the size, then mount it in a frame with an acrylic box insert. I'll be posting soon for advice on mounting.
:rolleyes: Rick

P.S. I don't have the pens you mentioned, but one of my ad reps did bring me a nice quality, funky looking pen as a Christmas gift today.
 

Sister

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Alabama
Originally posted by Jim Miller:


. . . But when a customer wants me to violate my rules of preservation framing, I ask him/her to sign my "Waiver of Liability", a special form I made up and printed in color. . .
Jim, I also have a made-up "Waiver of Liability", but it is just too simple to appear very official. Would you mind sharing a copy of yours??? As always, your advice is appreciated.
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Sister

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Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
I'm still trying to figure out how you get a "drop of 3M 77."
Let me know when you do, Ron. You can post it in the "Tips" section and become the god of "Tips of the Picture Framing Trade." Oh Mighty One.
 

Bluewing

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Paul you get that annoying glue in Magazines that come in the mail or off the shelf. But those dots worked for me
 

Greg Fremstad

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Eugene OR
FrameTek makes a spacer that holds two pieces of SSB glass 1/4 inch apart. Called FrameSpace 1/4 Double.

Releasably attach the letters to the back piece of glass with mylar corners. (Remind your customer that you are a framer- not a magician)

Stain, paint or finish off the rabbet and the back of the frame as best as necessary and bond the FrameSpace to the rabbet lip.

This IS all reversible and should cover your butt.
 
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