Glass Cutting Question

[Ron Eggers]

This is one of those weird little questions that will either make you say, "Yeh, I've always wondered the same thing!" or "Ron needs to get off-line and go sit in his new chair." More likely the latter.

How small a section will you trim from a lite of glass before you just go up to the next size and trim it? For example: You need a 15 7/8 x 19. Will you cut that from a 16 x 20 or will you think, "Pretty good chance that 1/8" cut will go badly, so I'll just cut it from an 18 x 24."

With my old C&H glass cutter, if the cutoff piece wasn't big enough to bridge the groove in the backboard, the cut would go badly, so I got in the habit of going to the next larger size and just accepting the waste.

Obviously, this is mostly a decision to be made if you stock a lot of sizes in the particular glass you need.

If you want to cut off 1/8", are you likely to use your Fletcher 3000 (a cutter a lot of us use) or score it by hand a break it with a glass pliers?

Just wondering. I won't be hurt if this topic doesn't stir a lot of heated discussion. I'll just keep wondering.
Ron

 

[Lance E]

After a little tapping on a calculator I found that I would willingly cut a 1/16th edge off 2.2mm clear float glass. Using a cutter in good and oiled condition there should be no trouble at all. (We use K-Star T-Cutters for all our glass cutting, so much faster than a cumbersome wall cutter!)

 

[Framar]

I do it by hand also, with a never oiled plain old Fletcher ball-end cutter. Rarely have any problems. Have learned to snap off the piece with pliers, however. Usually I can get an 1/8th off in one lethal piece. Since picture glass cannot be recycled, FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON, I am very thrifty with my glass.

 

[Al E]

While this issue has not caused me any sleepless nights, I must admit devoting more thought to it than most would consider appropriate. This was around the time when a few Grumblers recommended keeping all glass sizes on hand to reduce waste.

The most important variable in my convenience vs economy equation is the next size up that I have on hand.

 

[osgood]

Originally posted by Lance E:
After a little tapping on a calculator I found that I would willingly cut a 1/16th edge off 2.2mm clear float glass. Using a cutter in good and oiled condition there should be no trouble at all. (We use K-Star T-Cutters for all our glass cutting, so much faster than a cumbersome wall cutter!)

Lance,
Where do you get 2.2mm glass from (country). We haven't been able to get that since Pilkington stopped making it. Now it's imported from all sorts of unlikely countries because no-one makes it in Oz.

I don't think a calculator will help one bit when cutting glass.......unless Kiwi calculators are different to ours. (I would really like to see 1/16th inch cut from the edge of a 2.2mm sheet of glass. The smallest I have cut successfully, in one piece, is 3mm or 1/8th inch)

I don't know what sort of wall cutters you have seen that you think are cumbersome. I'm of the opinion that a horizontal work surface for cutting glass takes up much more room and is much more cumbersome.

I will also give you a glass cutting race any time you wish. I am quite sure I would have the glass cut with my Fletcher 3100 before you even got your T cutter set to size!

Hooroo!

 

[Marc Lizer]

The Gauntlet has been thrown down!

 

[CharlesL]

I have cut 1/8", and seldom have trouble. But, when I DO have trouble, it makes me want to step up to the next size. Then I will feel lucky, and try 1/8 again. And so it goes.

Lance, I can't believe you are going to take such taunting from Osgood!! I think you should meet him in the street, glass cutter in hand, at high noon!!

 

[tnframer408]

Lance:
What's a K-Star-T cutter, and why is it faster than a wall cutter.

Now that someone on this forum suggested Istock allglass sizes, I'm all for going tothe next size. Life's too short to mess with that 1/8",

 

[CAF]

Dear All:

I find the concept of clear glass pre-cut to various sizes interesting (amusing?) We get ours at 920mm by 1220mm (or 36" by 48"), one case at a time (45 sheets). Cutting for variously sized frames results in off-cuts or differing sizes, which in turn are suitable for frames of yet different sizes - you get the point.

I don't know if anyone in Perth would be interested in supplying glass competitively pre-cut to various sub 36*48 sizes, and how much we would gain from the exercise. Currently clear glass is around US$2.7-$3.0/sheet depending upon where we buy it - I think we would be paying more per square metre (foot) in smaller sizes. Does reduced wastage justify such a move?

Cheers,
Mike Wilson

 

[wpfay]

Ah, for the days of one kind of glass in one size. I just did a mental inventory (lots of dust) and realized that I have in stock 7 different kinds of glass (reg,RC,UV,UVRC,Museum, Deng,WaterwhiteUV), and two kinds of acrylic.
The options on glass make it tough to not have some of each in stock and with the more commonly used(reg,&UV) most of the sizes offered.

Back to the question: 1/8" is about as small as I'll go. When 2mm glass was more common I would go smaller.

As for the challenge. My money would be on the hand cutter with good skill. Before wall cutters framers would cut the glass into the frame by eye, and that's fast. Wall cutters allowed for less skilled glaziers to cut glass with ease and accuracy, sacrificing speed.

Oh, I fall into the "wall cutter" catagory with the exception of when I have to cut 1/4" plate glass or mirror.

 

[Kizmet6382]

It all depends on what kind of day i'm having. I'll usually free hand an 1/8 of an inch off. I dont trust the wall cutter, its not exactly square. In fact...i dont use the wall cutter for anything but backing board.
Kirsty

 

[B. Newman]

I've always wanted a wall mount cutter. I even designed a place for it when we built the new shop. But there has always been something else that I needed more when I had the money.

Since I cut my glass on a table (that is only used for glass) and since I am very short, and have short arms, I have had to devise a way to "make it work" (for this and for most things in my life).

I have an old xacto t-square that I took the head off, so that now it's just a straightedge. I put 1/8 thick cork on the back so that it doesn't slip. On one end there is a hole, so I made a "hold down" so that I can hold it with my foot and only have to hold it by hand on one end of the glass. I use a glass cutter that looks like a utility knife with the wheel on the end and I keep it in a jar with some oil on a paper towel.

I cut 1/8" strips often, and have on occasion, cut "just a hair" off a piece. I score it, tap it with the ball cutter, and "nibble" it off using the ball cutter. When it is really small, it rarely comes off in one piece. I keep a file with my cutters to smooth the edges. I started to get one of those "seamers", but I already had my file, and it works fine.

Betty

 

[Katie]

I work in a cold-in-the-winter-hot-in-the-summer- low-rent-year-round shop. In the winter I will attempt to trim a swizzle stick (1/8") off a piece of glass only after I have warmed it up with my heat gun! I cut all my glass by hand using the Fletcher cutter. Use to work with someone who could set a piece of glass in a frame and trim it freehand to fit. Not me.

 

[Cheryl Crocker CPF GCF]

I must be the only one here who cannot cut 1/8" off glass without cracking/breaking it! I do not know why this is, but I will break a piece of glass every single time trying to trim so small an amount off...I move up to the next size.

 

[Ron Eggers]

Thank you, Cheryl, for your honest response.

The way I look at it, without a high probability of success, I'm not going to mess around with trying to shave a few millimeters off a lite of glass. I might end up wasting time nibbling little pieces off with a pliers, then sanding the d*** thing smooth. Or the whole lite will crack and I've wasted that instead.

I guess Lance can make any claims he wants. Which of us is gonna go check on him? *

Ron

*The little green Graemlin, which I am beginning to detest, is intended to indicate that I am joking, Lance. I don't want you, or your friend Frame Harbor, getting on my case!

 

[Frame Harbor]

It's been long since I solved this very glass cutting dilema. These days I simply take a piece of glass and build a frame around it!

))

 

[osgood]

In order to cut a 1/8th inch or 3mm piece off the edge of a piece of glass in one piece there are a couple of requirements:

1. The wheel in the cutter should not be brand new. new wheels can be run (with oil) on a fine oilstone (sharpening stone for woodworking tools) a few times to remove the super sharp edge. If you can hear a tiny crackling after the cut is made, the wheel is too sharp. The crackling is tiny half moon shaped chips of glass popping off along the cut. These tiny chips will cause the glass to not break along the line.

2. Light oil should be applied to the wheel before cutting. The cutter dipped in some machine oil in a jar lid with a piece of felt in the bottom will do the trick.

3. Break the cut immediately after the cut is made.

4. Break the cut with a bending and pulling apart motion with fingers or glass pliers. (Not the type with a lump in one jaw.

 

[Mel]

This is a frugality question, isn't it? Or is it a skill question?

Myself, I will try to cut that sliver off, and am usually successful, or, rather, the Fletcher 3000 is successful, and if I have the patience to let the cut run slowly before I pull the piece off, it works.

When it comes to my business life, I pinch those pennies till they scream, which amazes my husband, who knows me to be, uh, not so frugal in my personal life. But since one supplies the money to support the other, this makes perfectly good sense to me.

 

[Ron Eggers]

Originally posted by Mel:
This is a frugality question, isn't it? Or is it a skill question?

It is both. If you are skilled enough to trim an 1/8" inch off a lite a glass with low risk of breakage or other failure, then it is frugal to do so. If, like me, you feel your failure rate of such a cut is too high, it is more frugal to cut from a larger lite.

It probably depends on how many sizes you stock. If I need a 35 7/8 x 47 7/8, I'm sure going to try to get that out of a 36 x 48 rather than cut down a 40 x 60.

Ron

 

[GUMBY GCF]

Well guess yuns' all need to know the secret.

You never never just cut off an 1/8" or a 1/16"
You always cut 1/2" off then take your Left Handed Glass Stretcher and stretch it back out 3/8's or 7/16's of an inch. Yes a Left Handed not a Right Handed Glass Stretcher because everyone knows the right handed one don't work.
I love these little green guys

Jim
Ohio

 

[Kit]

Gumby - we've been having trouble with thin spots developing in the center of the glass. Of course our stretcher is one that we converted from right handed to left handed by moving the handle to the other end. Do you think this could be causing the problem?

Kit

 

[Frame Harbor]

Instead of glass stretchers (which are very accurate but expensive tools, especially if custom made in Swiss for tall, American left handed framers), one may try to nibble 1/8" off his/her measuring tape before even attempting to cut the glass. It works wonders. Sometimes using a very dull glasscutter, as opposed to a razor sharp one may be an inventive answer to the troublesome remnant glass traces into the frame universe. Silently charging the client an extra buck for more generous glass margins may prove to be a fast and useful method too.

 

[Cheryl Crocker CPF GCF]

How much time is spent trying to shave/cut off a sliver of glass? Speaking only for myself, I will save more money going up to the next size than wasting 20 minutes trying to chip off or sand down the edges of a minutely trimmed piece of glass!

 

[Frame Harbor]

You are right Cheryl, but then you don't get the opportunity to improve yourself at an ancient skill like 1/8" wide glass stripe slicing because only practice makes you perfect. Besides, you loose a perfect reason to worry over it through the nights. Just kidding.
Speaking only for myself, I cannot help to notice that trivial and popular science topics, like taking off spots on glass for instance, are always more appealing to the Grumblers than serious, professional topics. In math they call it the smallest common denominator.

 

[B. Newman]

Yeah Cheryl, you are absolutely right. But there are two reasons that I do it. 1) Because I can do it, and 2) 30 years ago when I went to work in a frame shop right out of high school, my boss told me, "Never try to cut less than 1/4" off a piece of glass, because it can't be done."

'nuff said...

Betty

 

[Ron Eggers]

Originally posted by Frame Harbor:
Speaking only for myself, I cannot help to notice that trivial and popular science topics, like taking off spots on glass for instance, are always more appealing to the Grumblers than serious, professional topics.

Nothing trivial about it if you're doing it 8-12 hours/day and looking to do it in the most efficient possible way. It's all a matter of perspective. But you're right, Frame Harbor. Most of us in the trenches get a lot more excited about the nuts and bolts of framing procedures than we do about the larger concepts.
Ron

 

[tnframer408]

Cheryl, I agree with you.

Life's too short to drink cheap bourbon (or single malt) and to be shaving glass.

that's why we stock every size of UV clear and non-glare.

Like you, I simply cannot shave off that 1/.8", and very often even the 1/4"

I say the heck with it and go to the larger lite.

On the same note, however, does anyone design around the glass sizes?????

Just yesterday, my wife designed a piece that, upon further review, we could shrink by 1/2" and comeup with a 22 x 28 total size.

Love when that happens. No cutting, no nuttin' Just throw the glass in and we're done.

And another thought: does anyone out there not clean glass, just wear surgical latex gloves when handling glass???

Amazing the time you save washing it.

 

[Curly's Mom]

Originally posted by tnframer408:
And another thought: does anyone out there not clean glass, just wear surgical latex gloves when handling glass???

Amazing the time you save washing it.

That loud snap you just heard was Charles attention being gotten.

 

[Ron Eggers]

Michael,

You make two good points. (Kinda makes up for yesterday.) I try to be aware of glass sizes when I'm plugging dimensions into my POS system. If I end up with a frame size of 20 1/4 x 24 1/4, I'm sure gonna take 1/8" off the mat all around so I get a 20 x 24. Nothing too drastic, though.

Also, I handle my glass with some cheap, white kinda knit gloves I get from a local home center. They are washable when I think of it, and give me some minor protection. (Personally, I think I'll stay away from the Latex gloves. They might scare any customers who happen to walk in - especially the men who are my age or older.) I find that, with the carbide wheel and properly adjusted, my Fletcher 3000 scores so cleanly, that I rarely need to do any glass cleaning at all. If I do, it might be a light dusting with a soft brush.

Anybody remember (or still use) powder-packed glass? You could spend 20 minutes cleaning a 16x20 and still have a mess.

Ron

 

[Lance E]

Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
I guess Lance can make any claims he wants. Which of us is gonna go check on him

The cutter:

A 3/32" scrap, cut with this cutter, snappewd off by hand (finger and thumb) in one piece:

Osgood, we also have a 3100, there is not a shred of a chance of it being faster, by the time you had the sheet into the machine I would almost be finished cutting a full sheet into 10x8's with the T-cutter.

 

[Ron Eggers]

I found that I would willingly cut a 1/16th

A 3/32" scrap, cut with this cutter, snappewd off by hand (finger and thumb) in one piece:

So which is it gonna be, Lance 1/16th or 3/32?

I guess I can't blame Frame Harbor for being amused (I think he's amused) at the outpouring of opinions on this topic.

Ron

 

[Lance E]

My mathmatical skills are found to be a little lacking.

 

[osgood]

Lance,
Just two things come to mind :

1. As a custom framer since 1985, I have never had to cut a full sheet into 10 by 8's.

2. I take it you want the contest to begin with your sheet of glass already on your workbench and mine still in my glass rack.

I am just trying to point out (albeit, in an attempt at a little humour) that for most framers who do not do volume glass cutting, and have limited space, the wall cutter is extremely worthwhile, and a better option. In your situation where you obviously do volume framing, the T cutter may well be the best option.

By the way, do you have those left-handed stretching thingies over there in KiwiLand? I'm sure we don't have them over here! We do however have lefthanded screwdrivers! (we can also buy bags of emery sparks, in two sizes, if anyone needs any!)

 

[Frame Harbor]

I guess I can't blame Frame Harbor for being amused (I think he's amused) at the outpouring of opinions on this topic.

Ron[/QB][/QUOTE]

Not at all, Ron. In fact I'm simply amazed, and a bit jealous too , because you had offered framers a topic on glazing and got them eager to compete on glass cutting. By the same logic, do I need to address the glaziers with a framing question in order to stir a national competition on frame designing?

 

[Lance E]

Osgood,

I am very impressed with the 3100 that we have here and have used it for glass on several occassions with success (when we first got it and everything had to be played with of course), the T-Cutter is a much faster tool to set and there is no need to move the sheet once it is on the table, this makes it easy when cutting full sheet plans or single sizes. The biggest downfall for the 3100 is the fact that you are loading glass into a "steel" machine making it (IMHO) considerably easier to damage the lite.
For anyone who is considering finding an easier way I would seriously recommend the T-Cutters as they are cheap and make it possible for someone to become very proficient at cutting glass in a short time.
Glass stretchers would be very handy, as I have already said on this thread my mathematical skills are sometimes found to be a little lacking!!!
2...? let us both start from the racks...

Ron Eggers:

Just wondering. I won't be hurt if this topic doesn't stir a lot of heated discussion. I'll just keep wondering.

hmmm...

 

[CharlesL]

It was a dry, dusty day in the Outback.

Lance, the Amazing Glass Cutter, and Osgood, the Intrepid Aussie were facing off in the middle of the dirt street.

A hot, dry wind was blowing from the West. Both men were manuvering, trying to get the sun at their backs, and in their opponents eyes.

They faced each other from 30 paces. Faces full of grim determination and both filled with terrible purpose.

Just then, a 'crack' was heard, and...

PLEASE forgive me. I thought I was on Warped for a sec. This would make a great 'opera' for Warped.

 

[tnframer408]

Please, guys tell me: what is a T cutter? I'll look in my manuals Tuesday when Ireturn to work, but I've never heard of it.

Also: my son the part-time EMT (emergency medical technician) gets me these blue colored gloves they use; heavier than those flimsy white latex thingies and the box sez they're good for chemotherapy and other things. Theyre reusable for about 10 times and abox lasts us about four months.

I use the carbide wheel too, but still get fingerprints on the glass. These gloves eliminate that.

 

[Ron Eggers]

Originally posted by tnframer408:
Please, guys tell me: what is a T cutter? I'll look in my manuals Tuesday when Ireturn to work, but I've never heard of it.

Michael, are Lance's photos not coming through for you? <U>Lance's t-cutter</U>

I never heard of a t-cutter for glass, either. Must be a down-under novelty item. It's hard for me to visualize, even with the photo, how that would work well, but I've learned to believe Lance most of the time. In addition to the brashness of youth, he's had the experience to back it up. Dangerous combination . . .

I believe I <U>am</U> detecting a more conciliatory tone between Lance and Osgood, however.

Ron

 

[Terry Scidmore CPF]

Ron, have you tried making the score, tapping the score line lightly, turning the glass upside down (score side down) on the table top, then pressing gently along the score line with the ball tip of the hand glass cutter to run the score? I find that this works great with thin cuts, ovals, circles, fan shapes, cathedrals, etc.

 

[osgood]

Originally posted by Charles Lowry:
It was a dry, dusty day in the Outback.

Lance, the Amazing Glass Cutter, and Osgood, the Intrepid Aussie were facing off in the middle of the dirt street.

Outback my a r s e! The contest will be halfway between The Land of Oz & The Land of The Kiwi. (Sometimes known as The Land of the Long White Shroud)

Lance, I'll be there with my equipment on thursday at noon! See ya then!

I guess all those grumblers up there in the wrong hemisphere will get the impression that there is a bit of rivalry between Aussies and Kiwi's.

I have seen T cutters in use many times and would love to try one, but unfortunately I just don't have enough room in my workshop for another bench to cut glass on. (I am currently trying to lose a bit of weight myself so I can navigate my workshop a little easier.)

I have modified my 3100 with a 2mm thick flat plastic strip in the bottom of the bed to prevent breakage.

 

[Lance E]

Originally posted by osgood:
Outback my a r s e! The contest will be halfway between The Land of Oz & The Land of The Kiwi. (Sometimes known as The Land of the Long White Shroud)

Lance, I'll be there with my equipment on thursday at noon! See ya then!

It may be "float glass" but I'm not sure how it would fear in salt water, I do not know of a wall available for your machine, nor a table for mine.

Workshop space is a luxury that we do have here and that is obviously a major factor.

Anyone who is cutting glass with a handheld cutter on a table or into the back of the frame should seriously consider getting a T-Cutter, my feeling is that it is one of the few tools available to framers that actually is more than just a cool toy.