Getting Started - Router Kit Recommendations?

mjohn

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Posts
3
Loc
Maryland
Hello everyone, I am a photographer that has ventured into the custom matting scene, but would like to get into making my own frames as well.

From what I have read from here (didnt find any articles too close to my request) and other places, I will need a Router Table, Router, and an assortment of bits. With everything out there, what brand(s) do everyone swear by? Table specifications that make this work easier? What are the few bits nobody should live without?

I figure a rabbit to fit my router is the most important, next I would want to get one or two versatile bits for everything else and build up from there. Lastly, any recommended makers/suppliers for these? I've been to Rockler.com and they have what seems like a nice assortment of items.

I'd like to start out with the basics and dont want to drop too much into this possible venture. Of course I want to do it all right with the finest workmanship.

Thank you for your time, I look forward to getting into framing and am glad to see such a wonderful resource of knowledgeable people!

John
 
John, welcome to The Grumble.

Your idea of picture framing is way beyond basic, you are talking the very fundamentals.

Could I suggest that you go to the library and select a few books on picture framing. This action would not make you a framer, it would however, give you a clearer understanding of what is actually involved and would get you started on a more viable footing.

Putting a rabbit in wood with a router is admittedly a start, there are much easier ways, and probably less expensive. Please start by doing some reading before spending any more of your money.

Best of luck to you and your new endeavor,

John
 
Hi John,
I do make some mouldings using a router table, but I was a framer first, and this is an extension of what I do, using tools and skills I already had.

I would suggest you learn how to frame first and concentrate on getting together some good quality framing tools and all the other paraphernalia used in framing.

Routing is a whole new discipline and like JRB says, do a lot of reading first. If you decide to go ahead with the routing, buy a good quality router,table and TC tipped bits.
 
John and Mick, Thanks for the information! I wanted to keep it short and sweet but I must have used the wrong terminology.. I have done framing in the past using those 'kits' you find at the store. I want to make them from scratch, perhaps create my own 'style' of molding that complements my photography.

I am (or more so, used to be) familiar with some of the basics.. Mitering uneven sides, fitting, and nailing them. I own a generic miter box but definately need an upgrade as well as a Bessey band clamp and a couple small brad/staple nailers.

I understand the importance of good quality hardware, I have several DeWalt items and would like to get one of their routers. With matting I went for the more expensive model of the Logan mat cutting board and where many people complain about the complexity, I was able to pick it up and make an darned-near expert mat on my first try (completely even sides, a few fingerprints though - need to break out my kodak cotton negative handling gloves). Its definately worth your investment (and sanity!) going quality the first time.

Lastly, after searching to see if any other photographers here were into their molding I have found that we're not too liked around these parts.


I on the other hand believe in expert workmanship at an expert price.. Perhaps the 'cheapskate' artists and photographers are the same ones that offer rock-bottom sittings at rock-bottom quality.. It hurts us too, since there are many that offer cheap sittings it makes the consumer expect that from everyone.

-John
 
My own personal opinion is that a router will not be good enough to give you consistantly good quality. You need to look at getting a shaper. It is more powerful and is better suited for doing what you are suggesting.

Of course, what you are suggesting is not really something a person who is just starting out in framing would even try. That combined with the level of tools you say you have and/or are considering, you need to step back a notch and learn more about the world of woodworking.

My next opinion is about focus. You need to focus on your first profession, which seems to be photography and just buy ready made frames. Either be a photographer or a woodworker.

The whole idea is to not be wasting your time doing stuff that isn't your best suit.

Oh, and throw that stupid miter box into the trash!! You will never get a professional corner using junk.

If you really believe your philosophy of expert workmanship at an expert price then you will be way better off buying well made moulding or at least have an experienced woodworker make the mouldings for you if you insist on a custom look for your work.

What you are contemplating will not look like what you envision as it sounds as tho you aren't a professional woodworker either.
 
Porter Cable makes a fairly good router/router table combo. I think the router is 2.5HP with a 1/2" collett, adaptable to a 1/4". It has a split fence and a port for attaching a vacuum system. I have one and I use it occasionally.
If I were more serious about getting into making my own profiles, I would probably consider a small industrial grade spindle shaper instead of a router table. I would also need to buy a good quality jointer plane, and probably upgrade my surface plane.

Before you get too overloaded with specialty tools, why not look into buying unfinished mouldings from folks like Foster Planning Mills or Xylo Moulding. There's not much that you can make on a router table that someone else isn't making elsewhere for a lot less money. And they offer a bunch of profiles you just can't make at home.

I've worked with photographers that wanted design control of every aspect of their framing, and that's all well and fine. The problem was that there were research and development costs, as well as tooling expenses that they failed to figure in. We ended up with a moulding that was almost identical to one we could buy from a production mill, only at about three times the cost.
 
Listen to the advise these people are giving you. It's not as if you are designing your own router bits. All of the ones you can buy, the professional moulding makers are already using. Plus they are buying their stock in huge quantities, so they can turn out moulding inexpensively.

For you to consider making your own moulding you must have infinite free time and not consider your time to be worth any money. Like everyone else, I advise you to simply purchase your moulding as length (if you're determined to join them yourself).

If you're doing this as a business (as opposed to just looking to amuse yourself) your time will be far better spent behind the camera, IMO.
 
I hope you're taking notes, I think you're getting some excellent advice. I do some speciallty stuff. Custom or more often, customizing moulding. Carving, gilding, painting. Some of these things can take a great deal of time to learn and still a great deal of time to do once you've learned...well, ok, you never do stop learning. Wally's right, check those companies for raw mouldings, they have great selection. I have a router and table, not really good ones, but they can be helpfull for customizing a profile. Customizing is probably more practical than starting from scratch at least for more complicated or combonation profiles. From scratch stuff that I do is actually the simpler stuff and more of that is done on the table saw than the router table. I also have this little dremel router that some of you may laff at but I may use it more than my big table for those little touches. I can use it right in the shop without needing a lot of room or making such a big mess. I also have a reciprocating carving tool with an assortment of gouges. chisels etc. for the same reason. Remember, what you seem to be talking about takes a lot of space and makes quite a mess and frankly it's not what most framers do. If you know exactly what it is you want to create why not post some kind of picture or drawing? You might get some good suggestions on the most practical way to accomplish it. Good luck
 
Or you can take my new class at the West Coast Art and Framing Show, Power Tools for The Picture Framer where we will discuss and demo routers and more!

Fundamentals of Framing Series
F154 Power Tools for The Picture Framer
Tuesday Jan. 24 : 9-11:00am • Rob Markoff
New Class—In this session you'll learn the rewards of using some versatile, handy power tools for framers, such as the router/trimmer and biscuit joiner. If you missed woodshop in high school, then this class is for you! We'll explore some of the most versatile power tools, covering the features and uses of each and how to select the right ones for your shop. You'll see these tools in action and learn how they can be used for simple solutions for common customizing problems, such as routing rabbets for out-of-square canvases, trimming acrylic glazing, and joining oversized frames. You'll also see some handy tricks demonstrated that you can do at home. If you could use creative solutions for these common framing challenges, this class is designed for you.

FEE: $40.00 Before 12/20 — After 12/20 $45
 
If you want to put a rabbit in wood mouldings, use a table saw with dado blades, not a router. If you want to shape your own mouldings, use the machine suggested, get a shaper. Hand held routers attached to a table will just burn out with sustained use, such as running mouldings, even the good ones. There is a reason professionals use expensive machines, it's cheaper in the long run and the quality of the finished product.

What you are asking us doesn't make sense. How about if I turn it around on you.

John, I want to be a professional photographer. I do not want to spend a lot of money becoming one. I saw some photos a friend took with one of those disposable cameras from the drug store. They looked pretty darn good to me, and I think I could sell those photos easily. My question, what is the best disposable camera to get if I want to do professional photography?

Thanks,

John
 
Based on the description of your class, it isn't for him. You'll notice he wants to make frames from scratch not just touch up stuff.

Don't go giving him any false hopes by advertising your class. Unless you are going to teach how to make frames from scratch using these handy power tools he will still not be able to do what he wants after taking your class.
 
By the way, John.. great comparison!!

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Maybe I can just use the Kodak point and shoot throwaways instead of the stupid old Canon 1Ds that I'm currently using. Boy!! I could just shoot myself for wasting that much money!!
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Rob: I wish I could come to Vegas!

Thank you all for the great advice. Looking around I found a professional unfinished moulding supply in my area called Bosley Mouldings in Glen Burnie, MD. They say they have 200 styles to pick from. I'll have to visit and see what they have.

I definately would like to at least try my hand at assembling them. But I was told to trash the miter box, whats the answer? I do have a dewalt compound saw, just need to get a fine woodworking blade?

Thanks for the tip on making the rabbits using a Dado - never thought of that. I know dados are a bit expensive, but I already have a table saw that will take them.

I'm not trying to get out of a task 'cheaply' but I do appreciate everyone letting me know about the process. It seemed like something that could be done with an amateur woodshop. Perhaps i'll try my hand at it one day, I do enjoy woodworking as a hobby but completely understand that at least at this point at offering frames, it would be so much more cost effective to buy the moulding in lengths.

So, i'll stick to assembly, finishing/staining, and matting. Thanks again for the help and the reality check!

-John
 
California
Foster's Planing Mill
323-759-9156

Georgia
Xylo Moulding
800-627-5040

I forgotten about Bosley...haven't ordered from them in a coon's age. I would say they are comparable to Xylo. Foster's is my prefered vendor.

DeWalt compound miter saw will work fine with a 80-100 tooth carbide blade. There are a number of manufacturers of these blades, and everyone has their favorites. I use Ultramiter, but other blades from woodworking catalogs or fine woodworking retailers will do just as well.
 
Originally posted by JRB:
There is a reason professionals use expensive machines, it's cheaper in the long run and the quality of the finished product.
For several years we manufactured all our moulding using a jointer, planer, table saw and spindle shaper. Anyone we told wouldn't believe that we could hold to the +/- .005" tolerances we did using such tools. It was a combination of quality equipment and fastitidious attention to details that allowed us to do so. However, anyone truly serious about making high quality moulding in todays market will probably not consider spending less than $50,000 on a moulder to produce their product, plus at least that much more in prep and support tools.

John's comparison of using a disposable camera for professional photography is a good analogy. Regardless of the fact that a professional would most likely take better pictures with a disposable than I could with a [insert name of the "best" camera here], the equipment is the most important thing after talent or skills.
 
John makes an excellent point. I use to use a router to rabbet my boards for my shadow boxes. It took forever. Routers only allow a small cut with each passing or you tear up the wood or break the bit. I'd find myself making four or more passes for one length of board.

I now use a table saw with dado set. It now only takes me one pass, two at most.

At one point, I was making some of my own moulding. But when I compared the cost and time for making moulding versus the cost and selection available, I dropped that idea.

Anyway, if you're determined to do your own moulding to offer something totally unique, you should certainly use the table saw and dado set for the rabbet.

Don
 
People often say to me, "Hey, Ron, where'd your middle finger go?"*

Table saw with daddo set. Be careful.

We never did find the finger.

*It's an ice-breaker for sure.
 
God, that had to ruin your whole day. I've come close, been bit a few times, no losses though. Makes my skin crawl just thinking about that dado blade humming away in front of my hand.

Thanks for the heads up,

John
 
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