Frontrunner installation onto a wall

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cjmst3k

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Apr 25, 2006
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I just got Frontrunner fabric and I'll be attaching it directly to drywall.

Last time I did this years ago the gentleman from Lowes talked me out of using white-glue, and talked me into using carpet glue. Ever since then when I pull a sample off of that wall it pulls the fabric off of the wall and leaves a large bubble. The wall after that I used white-glue like I had originally planned (again on plywood) and it is tight as a drum.

Should I expect the same good results with white-glue, this time on drywall, or will white-glue adhere differently than previously on wood?
 
I think I would take a small piece of fabric and glue it to a scrap piece of drywall with the glue you intend to use. Wait a day and then pull on the fabric to see what will happens.
 
I would mount it to wood then mount (screw) the wood to the wall.
You might pull the surface paper off the drywall plus if you ever want to remove it from the wall just remove the screws, no mess.
 
dougj said:
I would mount it to wood then mount (screw) the wood to the wall.
You might pull the surface paper off the drywall plus if you ever want to remove it from the wall just remove the screws, no mess.
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That's what I did 10 years ago, and now that I'm moving.... the whole store is gonna need to be skim-coated when I tear that wood and furring strips, etc off the walls.

Direct to drywall is the plan - just figuring out best adhesion method. I like the idea of testing on a piece of drywall first... sounds logical. :) I'm hoping I don't have to prime the new drywall first before applying glue.
 
If you don't prime the drywall first (most likely even if you do) you will rip the surface paper off the drywall in the future and it will require way more than a skim coat to fix. Most likely complete tear out and replace.

Patching screw holes is far more cost effective in the long run.
 
Seems like going directly to dry wall is not going to be good choice. How about using 1/8 luan (see http://www.blurtit.com/q3431220.html) screwed to the wall then covered or cover first then attach to wall. My experience is that luan is cheaper than plywood. 1/8 masonite would work also.
 
Hey Chris, I know that priming the drywall is another dreaded step to what probably feels like an endless process, not to mention the smell........Ugh, there is nooo pleasant smelling primer..........but you will get there and it will all be worth it in the end.

I would really hate for you to skip that step right now, just to end up having to completely re-do it in 5 years. The primer coat is what seals your wall so that moisture cannot get trapped in the drywall. Paint by itself will not do the trick, because it does not have all of the binders required to really seal the wall.

I can tell you that we used heavy duty wallpaper glue when we put up our velcloth over primed drywall. That was 8 years ago and it is still very tight today. Watered the glue down slightly so that it was easy to manuver, then just painted it directly on the wall in sections with a wallpaper glue brush.

I hope whatever you decide to do it goes very smoothly for you. :thumbsup:

Jeni
 
All good tips.

Since the vast majority of this is going over walls that I paid to have installed, I'm not going to worry if it is permanently attached to the drywall, since the landlord (at some point in the future) can alter the space at his dime then, since he didn't have to pay a cent for all the work I did (and still doing).

I'll look into priming. I do want to make sure it's up there for good. Though, on the sheets of plywood that I put up years ago with white glue attaching frontrunner, those have stayed stuck on with no problem. Is there a reason that drywall might be of concern that plywood does not have the same issue with? Just now I gave a good solid tug on the Frontrunner from years ago on the plywood, and it won't budge. The wall moves, but not the fabric.
 
All good tips.

Since the vast majority of this is going over walls that I paid to have installed, I'm not going to worry if it is permanently attached to the drywall, since the landlord (at some point in the future) can alter the space at his dime then, since he didn't have to pay a cent for all the work I did (and still doing).

I'll look into priming. I do want to make sure it's up there for good. Though, on the sheets of plywood that I put up years ago with white glue attaching frontrunner, those have stayed stuck on with no problem. Jeni, is there a reason that drywall might be of concern that plywood does not have the same issue with? Just now I gave a good solid tug on the Frontrunner from years ago on the plywood, and it won't budge. The wall moves, but not the fabric.
 
"Is there a reason that drywall might be of concern that plywood does not have the same issue with? Just now I gave a good solid tug on the Frontrunner from years ago on the plywood, and it won't budge. The wall moves, but not the fabric."

That's because the wood is glued together with super strong glue and dry wall is wrapped between layers of paper.
 
EVA adhesive may be a better choice. It can be reactivated with heat!

If I did my spinners and wall boards again, I would use EVA!
 
I would not think there would be more of a concern going over drywall than plywood, both are porous, and could hold moisture and therefore harbour mold, which is why I'm such a proponent of primer.

A basic flat primer should not inhibit the bond you get with your adhesive, but the advise given earlier to test it out first is still a good idea, and you can get any of the major brands (kilz, sheildz, bite) all in 1quart containers.
 
Just curious why you didn't buy the adhesive when you purchased the fabric. I bet the stuff they sell for it holds well.
 
Jeff Rodier said:
Just curious why you didn't buy the adhesive when you purchased the fabric. I bet the stuff they sell for it holds well.
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Does Lockfast have adhesive?

Last time I bought from them and I spoke with the sales person, they said that spray adhesive is what they recommend, but my concern is that pressure sensitive adhesives give way over time, so white glue was what I decided was the best option, and has worked great so far on the plywood walls from 5 years ago.
 
I'm sure they have adhesive for it but if the white glue works well it will most likely save you a couple hundred bucks. Since you have used it before you will know how thick to apply without bleed.
 
I have installed carpet to walls at least a half dozen times in the past. I have used carpet glue troweled on with mixed results. What has worked the best is contact cement. It requires you to open up the shop and run fans, but it goes up easy and smoothly.

If I were doing it over, I would cover individual plywood panels then screw them to the wall. This way they could easily be moved to a new space.
 
I was told by someone a while back, that having the fabric directly on the wall is not allowed by the fire department in some areas, and if they check you might have to take it down and put up plywood later.

For me I used plywood, the fabric on the plywood, and then a frame around the plywood.

I'm a framer so I framed my corner samples.
 
I built a display system using 1/4" luann (not PC, but "door skins" sounds kinda yucky too) on a 2X2 flush fitted frame with horizontal cross pieces at 32" on center. The upper frame member was a beveled 2X4 creating a cleat. The panels were covered in "Loop" material glued with PVA (fabric glue) to the face and wrapped around the back, and stapled. They were hung using a cleat at the top and a Z-bar style cleat at the bottom. The only holes you need to put in the drywall are for the cleat and z-bar.

The panels are very light weight, rigid and strong, while also being easy to remove and recover (changed some into art display by covering in fabric, left the loop fabric on and covered right over it).

I built the first ones of these (prototypes) in the early 80's and some are still in use in my shop today, though they do have newer fabric on them. The earlier ones were designed a bit differently. The one I described is the most current incarnation.
I pulled one off the wall and covered it in a fabric, built a bench frame for it and used it as a work bench top for an on-site job I just completed, so, yes, the design is versitile. I can set up or knock down the bench in less than 20 minutes.

Chris, when I started this design I was guarding against losing my lease. Whatever I did was considered temporary, and I wanted to be able to take my efforts with me when I eventually moved. Your current LL will have to manage the walls you built should you have to move, but you will be starting from scratch...again.
 
osgood said:
EVA adhesive may be a better choice. It can be reactivated with heat!

If I did my spinners and wall boards again, I would use EVA!
Click to expand...

Ethyl Vinyl Acetate (EVA) is the best solution - because it is a permanently flexible adhesive.

I just did over 100 yards of continuous moulding wall display (new head office showroom) using this method 3 months ago - and we got no bubbling or lifting so far - nor will we.

I find that contact adhesive (spray, etc) is a waste of time - because it just dries brittle and cracks the bond too easily.

Cheers,

Jared
 
Wally, that gives me an idea.

What about using 36" hollow core doors as your base. They are cheap and light weight. The size would also be workable on a pair of sawhorses compared to a full sheet of plywood.

If I ever have to re-do my walls or move, I think this is the way to go.
 
^ That is a great idea Dave, not only for walls, but hinge a few together and you've got a great low cost, portable vignette. :thumbsup:
 
Help please!

I decided to run with the EVA method, I must be doing something wrong for it's not sticking at all. What am I doing wrong? Could it be that it is concrete block walls at fault? (painted/sealed walls) I first applied the EVA 1-2 mm thick, and tried attatch the frontrunner. But there was no 'tack'. So I waited, hoping the glue would would become tacky. But it's just running down the walls (where I accidentally rolled some onto the wallpaper it dried really fast). Next I tried rolling it onto the back of the front runner, which then became super heavy, and still would not stick!

What can I do?

Can I let this glue coated wall cure, and try a different adhesive.
 
I don't know if the EVA can be reactivated with heat like other fabric glues but you can test it with an iron.
 
I've got both the hollow doors and masonite strips. I used contact cement on the strips, then drywall-screwed the strips to the walls. Perfect installation.
 
I started this thread years ago and ultimately what I did was (with 11' ceilings) was I first stapled the Frontrunner fabric to the top of the wall, about 2" from the ceiling, first to make sure it was lining up straight. Then one person would pull the bottom of the Frontrunner away from the wall and hold it away (or use 2 tall ladders) so the other person could take one of those paint rollers FULL of white glue and really slather it onto the wall. Like almost dripping. I found when I used less glue (heavy, but not too heavy) it just didn't stick to the Frontrunner. So rolling heavy with white glue worked well. The staples stayed at the top for a few days while drying... or maybe if I was impatient, I added a few staples maybe 18" down from the ceiling, and then released the rest of the staples at the top, so I could add glue to the tippy-top where I couldn't reach from the original staples.

Worked like a champ. A few areas where I still need to fix, but its a very minor issue.

And correct, there is absolutely no tack. That's why the staples were so helpful, but we were going into drywall.
 
How did it work out, Reesbee?
 
Good technique Chris, I"d much prefer to have used white glue for its' non toxicity!

I went to a specialist Adhesives shop, and they sold me a vynal glue, with instructions to apply it to the the wall and then stick the front runner to it. (I was desprate to avoid a contact adhesive.) That worked quite well, but did not have the initial 'tack' that I truly wanted. Still involved about 20 minutes of holding it on the wall untill it was safe to let go. I used up the 4 litre can, then had to wait till monday for the adhesive shop to open again!

This morning I got the best glue yet, though it's right up there in the stink factor. This one is designed for artificial grass, harder to spread, but boy does it work! I needed a high tack cause I am doing this solo (if I had a helper on site then the wall holding stage would not be so distressing, I am sure!) lol.

At the end of the day - when applying Frontruner onto a concrete wall I'd recommend the Vinal flooring adhesive and a helper (less smell, and a longer 'open' time to wriggle joints snug.)
 
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