Question Frank's Fab. Adh. better than ATG Tape? Yes!

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ahohen1

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A few months ago a few framers in the Grumble suggested using Frank's Fabric Adhesive instead of ATG tape to join mats together. I didn't think too much about it, but i called Frank's and asked them a few questions about the glue. They sent me a free pint to try. When i got it in i started using it and loved how fast it dried and how strong it was, but, i was not using it too often because i was spending a minute or two putting pressure on the glue spots... the ATG tape DID work faster. Then i had an idea... i asked my son to make me a dozen paper weights (all same size). He did this using a 2" solid metal rod (cut from an old shaft... he works in "repair" at a local shipyard which i do framing for). He cut them 1 1/2" thick and cleaned (no rust, just dirt). Now, using these weights, the amount of ATG tape i use is almost zero... one roll will now last me over three months! Anyone else using mainly glue instead of ATG tape? I am sure several of you have NEVER used ATG tape in the past and are not using it today. The main reason I switched over to Frank's glue is the problem i was having with ATG tape... not being able to roll it on the back of some mats without it pulling up the matboard paper instead of sticking to it! I almost threw all remaining rolls in the garbage. Thanks for any opinions. ajh
 
Andrew...

I use only Frank's to join mats.

Advantages:

~ Does not dry immediately. If you line the mats up a little off you have up to a minute or so to pull apart and re-align. If you use ATG tape once it's down it's down!

~ Much less expensive than ATG tape

~ Dries quickly and is water soluble.

~ If you ever want to remove the top mat all you need to do is run your finger between the mats and pop pop pop it comes apart with no damage. Try that with ATG tape! Of course, this presumes you just use a couple drops every few inches which is all you ever need.

Now that you see the advantages of using Frank's for joining mats why not try it for putting on dust covers? That's all I use unless I'm backing with Cambric Cloth.

I use the LJ leather round weights for weighting the mats together. Dries totally in about 3-5 minutes.

The only place I use ATG tape now is to hold side panels in place on shadowboxes until the wood glue sets up. I use to use little clamps but ATG tape is much easier .

Frank's Fabric Adhesive is also reactivated by heat for easy removal. If you happen to get a small amount on a mat it usually comes up easily with a white gum eraser with no residue!

I've also tested the adhesive for other applications and found it to hold almost anything to anything. for example, it is great for applying brass plaques to mats. Even though it is great for many uses, I do not like it for applying anything to wood. The bond seems not to be as strong.
 
Dave said:
Andrew...

I use only Frank's to join mats.

Advantages:

~ Does not dry immediately. If you line the mats up a little off you have up to a minute or so to pull apart and re-align. If you use ATG tape once it's down it's down!

~ Much less expensive than ATG tape

~ If you ever want to remove the top mat all you need to do is run your finger between the mats and pop pop pop it comes apart with no damage. Try that with ATG tape! Of course, this presumes you just use a couple drops every few inches which is all you ever need.

Now that you see the advantages of using Frank's for joining mats why not try it for putting on dust covers? That's all I use unless I'm backing with Cambric Cloth.

The only place I use ATG tape now is to hold side panels in place on shadowboxes until the wood glue sets up. I use to use little clamps but ATG tape is much easier .
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. The only thing i am hesitating about doing is using the glue for dust covers. By the time i spread the glue around the outside of an (average) 18 x 24" frame the glue is almost dried and not enough time to apply pressure along the edges of the dust cover. Any suggestions?
 
Sure...

If you are doing production, then use a roller.

If you do one at a time, then run a bead around the frame and smear it out to the edge with your finger. Put the dustcover on.

I know some people think I'm crazy, but I then use a cordless iron and run it around the outside edge which dries and/or reactivates the glue. This is helpful for me for three different reasons. It dries the paper completely so that it either cuts easier with a razor blade and also sands easier with a sanding block which is what I normally use. It makes the edge perfectly smooth. If you do happen to get called away for a minute and the glue dries the iron reactivates the glue for perfect adhesion.

I would highly recommend using the iron technique to make sure the adhesion is good since Frank's does dry rapidly.

I know this sounds involved, but it is not. Takes very little time and combining this process with lightly misting the cover paper before application and also running a Magnum 44 marker around the edge makes the back look amazingly nice.

I often get comments about how clean a look I have on the back of my frames.
 
I had never used the iron until Dave showed me his cordless...... I was totally impressed. I used to screed with the back of a single edged razor.... now I want the hot one.
I'm out the door to Brookstone to get a teeny tiny travel iron for my classes. They are so cute!

As for putting mats together.... about 8-10 little dots... and it should be good. We have a large 3/8" plate glass for cooling hot mounts..... I just stick the mats under there for later. Totally flat.
 
In order to enable safe removal of the matted item from its window mat, the proper joining of window mat to back mat is a spine of linen tape that runs down the longer side of the mat. When windows are glued (or adhered with ATG) to their back mats, removal of the matted item can become quite dangerous. Glue is a prefect adhesive for attaching dust covers, however, since it will hold until the frame needs to be opened.



Hugh
 
Hugh, the above technique we were discussing was for adhering multiple mats to each other. I agree that the linen tape along the longer spine is a better method for adhering the art and its backer to the window mats.

That said though, unless I am dealing with valuable or fragile art, I usually will also adhere the mounted art to the window mats with just a few small dollops of Frank's adhesive. It easily pops apart.

If the art is such that I believe a collector would want to view the entire print and thus swing the mats up from the art, then I use linen tape along the spline. However for photos and posters and such I don't unless full conservation treatment is dictated.
 
Dave said:
... If you happen to get a small amount on a mat it usually comes up easily with a white gum eraser with no residue!...
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention that you have to let the glue dry first!
 
I remember yelling at employees for wasting money using ATG tape for the backing paper instead of glue.

Now we just use ATG.

Those employees would hate me if they knew that.
 
Jared Davis CPF GCF said:
Oz Framer - it's EVA - also known as "Super Flex" from Megawood.
Click to expand...
"Super Flex" is great stuff for lots of uses, including sticking mats together.



For fabric wrapping mats, Frank's is excellent! It seems to work better when using heat.
 
Thanks for the opinions and suggestions. I used a mini-roller to spread glue for a dust cover and it worked out great. I put the mini-roller in a ziplock bag so it wouldn't harden. I will get a small sealable plastic container to put the roller in... it will give me a place to put the glue on the roller. :popc:
 
Is Frank's Fabric Adhesive the same as Miracle Muck?

I have a bottle that I could try out. Also if you were careful not to use too much glue on the edges, couldn't you pop the mats that you are adhering to one and another in a cold vacuum press to bond them together (same as the weights...)?

I am donating hundreds of double mats to a charity event. Using the glue to adhere the mats seems as if could cut my costs a little. Right?

Susan
 
susang said:
Is Frank's Fabric Adhesive the same as Miracle Muck?

I have a bottle that I could try out. Also if you were careful not to use too much glue on the edges, couldn't you pop the mats that you are adhering to one and another in a cold vacuum press to bond them together (same as the weights...)?

I am donating hundreds of double mats to a charity event. Using the glue to adhere the mats seems as if could cut my costs a little. Right?

Susan
Click to expand...

-Miracle Muck? I had no idea what this is, but i found this (it appears to do the same as Frank's):
http://www.canvaspanels.com/Instructions,MiracleMuck.pdf
--Cold vacuum press instead of weights? Weights are faster... if i put two 8x10 mats together i use only 4 spots of glue and i only need to put four weights in place for only a minute (in this minute, i cut the glass or ???). Also, make sure the mats do not "unaline" as you move it to the vacuum mount, especially when putting larger mats together....
 
ahohen1 said:
Also, make sure the mats do not "unaline" as you move it to the vacuum mount, especially when putting larger mats together....
Click to expand...

That's why I use weights too. If you use a plate mirror or plate glass you can slide the mats out of alignment.
 
I bet that Baer knows the difference.....or those who use both Raphaels and Franks. I haven't graduated into fabric wraps on a regular basis but I'm sure that those who do these a lot could answer really easily....

Susan
 
PVA and EVA adhesives are widely used in conservation and preservation, where their strong bonding potential, flexibility, stability, and ease of application (due to their rapid drying) make the invaluable. Since both are acetates, they can generate acetic acid, evenually, and should be used with buffered materials, like most mat board. The pure forms of these glues are clearer, when dry, more flexible, and quicker drying than household white glue, but they may only be shipped during warmer months, since they lack anti-freezing additives.



Hugh
 
ahohen1 said:
I will get a small sealable plastic container to put the roller in... it will give me a place to put the glue on the roller. :popc:
Click to expand...

It will also give just enough air to harden the glue on the roller.

Forget the expensive zip locks. When you go to the grocery store, one of those plastic bags that you dragged the milk home in is good for a few weeks with the roller wound up in it. No refrigeration needed.

Susang, like I said in the MI class, I used to Muck about for a few years when Corona stopped making their glue . . . but I also had to use several "work arounds" too. So I stopped and went back to other alternatives until Frank got his formula up and running. (a better adaptation of the old Corona glue.)

Now I use Franks everywhere I used to use four other PVA/EVA products.... including Cornerweld. (Frank has better penitration.)
 
ahohen1 said:
-Miracle Muck? I had no idea what this is, but i found this (it appears to do the same as Frank's):
http://www.canvaspanels.com/Instructions,MiracleMuck.pdf
--Cold vacuum press instead of weights? Weights are faster... if i put two 8x10 mats together i use only 4 spots of glue and i only need to put four weights in place for only a minute (in this minute, i cut the glass or ???). Also, make sure the mats do not "unaline" as you move it to the vacuum mount, especially when putting larger mats together....
Click to expand...

I have been using both--Frank's Fabric Adhesive and Micracle Muck. I don't see any difference at all between the two. The ONLY thing that was discouraging about the Miracle Muck is that it states on the glue container: "For longest shelf life, store at temperatures between 45 degrees and 70 degrees F." I will call Frank's and ask them what their suggestion are for longer shelf life:confused: . If it is the same as Miracle Muck, i will choose Frank's, because, when a quart container is purchased, it comes with a spout... ALL Miracle Muck containers only comes with a cover. :p
 
As a general rule, just stick the gallon on the floor under a table.... should last a little over a year before it starts to get snotty.... If it take a year to go through a gallon, you're not selling enough fabric mats and liners. (IMHO) :D
 
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