Framing Valuable Poster

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flanderingham

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Nov 14, 2006
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Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Have customer with a reasonably valuable poster that would be tough to replace. He wants it framed and although he has mentioned framing with no mat I am going to try and pursuade to use at least one mat. Having said that , if he chooses no mat , with a metal frame, what would be the recommended way of attaching the poster to backing ? I'm thinking spacers to separate glass and poster, but what would you use to attach poster when frame/glass will basically be the same size as the poster/backing ? Thanks.
 
If the poster is in reasonably good condition I would consider using Restore Foam Core which is reversible. Have a discussion with your customer first.
 
If there are no mats, then I assume that the poster would be full to the edge of the frame. If it can be made to lay reasonably flat, you could hinge it and "hang" the poster from them by folding them over the backside and securing them there - like straps. The spacers would then provide pressure to keep the rest of the poster edges down which would hopefully keep it reasonably flat - again, depends on the condition of the poster and the paper.
 
Verdaccio said:
If there are no mats, then I assume that the poster would be full to the edge of the frame. If it can be made to lay reasonably flat, you could hinge it and "hang" the poster from them by folding them over the backside and securing them there - like straps. The spacers would then provide pressure to keep the rest of the poster edges down which would hopefully keep it reasonably flat - again, depends on the condition of the poster and the paper.
Click to expand...

Maybe not the best plan. With the spacers resting on the poster, the edges will be constrained and the paper will not be able to move the way it needs to in response to changes in environmental conditions. Rather than being held flat, you will end up with some serious cockling. For an extreme example take a look at the lambskin diploma thread from last week.

If the poster is floated with even a small amount of extra room around it, say 3/8", then the spacers can rest on the background, not the poster, and the paper will be free to move as it needs to. Probably not 100% flat 100% of the time, but it beats the alternative.

Of course a lot depends on size, weight of the paper, condition, age, etc.
 
You know Dave, you are likely right. I do wonder if the spacer exerts as much pressure over the surface as it is feared...would depend on how tightly you tacked the backing in I suppose, and the factors you mentioned as well.

I did a float mount actually on a Hamlet poster from a 1976 New York show. Framed it against black with an inch showing all round so that the torn and holed edges showed up nicely, built the sides out in black as well in a deep frame so it looked a little like a marquee box. Turned out nicely. :)
 
You have to talk them into a mat, a frame/spacers on or around the poster will make it ripple. Art Care Restore I would not touch that stuff.
 
Spacers resting on paper can do more harm than good. They can keep the edge flat, while the rest of the sheet coclkes. A window mat, or spacers that do not sit on the sheet are much safer options.


Hugh
 
RParrish said:
... Art Care Restore I would not touch that stuff.
Click to expand...

Why is that, Randy? I've had great success with it for this type of mount.
 
I would not want to put the spacer directly on the poster's edges. But on a few occasions I have used a very thin mat, about 1/2" to 1" wide, in a color that matches the poster's border, and a spacer under the glass that rests on the edges of the mat. The thin mat is not a visual feature, but it holds down the poster's edges, and also prevents the spacer from directly contacting the poster, where it could abrade, snag, or restrict movement within the frame.

In order to allow normal expansion and contraction without restricting movement of the frame's contents, be sure to install the fitting points loosely. If the frame rattles a little, that is a good sign. Moderately loose fitting is a good general rule for most* framing, but it may be especially important when the art's edges are so near the frame.

*As far as I know, tight fitting is a benefit only for framing that includes a direct contact overlay using acrylic, where the fitting process includes compressing the polyester batting to create spring tension in the assembly. Other than that, I try to fit the frame loosely enough that the contents can shift easily.
 
Dave said:
Why is that, Randy? I've had great success with it for this type of mount.
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I'm curious as well Randy (or any others that feel the same).
 
I agree with most of the coments here except the few that recommend aginst using spacers.

Most framers insist on making all framing packages rattle free which I believe is wrong as Jim Miller talked about. When you get finished with any frame job you should be able to insert a business card between the frame and the glazing. This will always insure that the art and backing will have the freedom to expand and contract with changes in humidity. Rattling beats buckling.

Hinging over the top of the backing is the correct way of insuring that the poster will not "belly out" at the bottom with time/weight. It is important however to "T" the hinges way down at the bottom of the pendants to allow for some movement sideways as the poster (and backing) expand and contract. The museum method we have all been taught in almost every article on hinging misses this important feature. Check out this free article on the FrameTek web pages, especially page 2 that talks about the buckling between hinges.

Remember that museums don't generally have changes in humidity so the expansion/contractionin is not a poblem like real life framing.
 
My $.02 on Bainbridge Restore board.

I have had very poor experiences with the product. Though I follow their instuctions and know my vac press is working correctly I would get partial attachment, bubbling, delayed delamination and other undesirable results.

The last straw was when I mounted a couple Rock Show posters from the 70's. These were from European events and likely irreplacable.

One looked fine coming out of the press. I put it under weights to cool, and it still looked great. Put it aside to frame the next day and there were hundreds of little bubbles throughout the surface. I tried running it through the press again and had the same results.
Still wasn't terribly concerned since I can always easily lift the piece from the Restore board, right? Wrong. It was eventually lifted, after about 4 hours, and I was able to get the residual adhesive off the back.

The other poster had problems too. It only bonded on part of the Restore board. About half didn't adhere at all. Same issues lifting it from the Restore board.
I did relay all this to Bainbridge, so they are aware of the problems I had.

Next I hear that Bainbridge has reformulated the adhesive and are making the same claims as before, but haven't produced the science to support the claim.
That may have been corrected by now, but I haven't heard it. In the meantime I will not again risk my customers work on Bainbridge's product.
 
Wally, my understanding is that the ArtCare Restore boards were originally produced by the company that developed the technology, not by Bainbridge, and the quality was good. Then, when Bainbridge took the production in-house, they had considerable trouble getting the adhesive right. I have heard that they worked out the problems and it works OK again. I don't know exactly when the problems came up, or how long it took to work them out.

I used ArtCare Restore a few times when it first came out, and had no troubles with it. Now I use Kool Tack Preserve, which is similar, and have had no troubles with that, either.

I am a satisfied user of Bainbridge and Kool Tack products, and an occasional consultant; previously for Bainbridge, and still for Kool Tack.
 
Bainbridge did have a problem for a while where they were not coating with enough adhesive. They replaced two cartons for me and I have had no problems since. I think this was about three years ago?

It is imperative that you weight cool when using Restore.
 
flanderingham said:
Have customer with a reasonably valuable poster that would be tough to replace. He wants it framed and although he has mentioned framing with no mat I am going to try and pursuade to use at least one mat. Having said that , if he chooses no mat , with a metal frame, what would be the recommended way of attaching the poster to backing ? I'm thinking spacers to separate glass and poster, but what would you use to attach poster when frame/glass will basically be the same size as the poster/backing ? Thanks.
Click to expand...

If it's really valuable or irreplaceable and they want to go cheap in the framing it doesn't make sense. If you can't do it right, with a rag mat, a conservation backing board, and acrylic don't do it at all. Tell them to go to cheapville and buy them selves a frame at goodwill. It could all come back at ya if you go cheap. Forget the spacers.
 
wpfay said:
My $.02 on Bainbridge Restore board.

I have had very poor experiences with the product.

One looked fine coming out of the press. I put it under weights to cool, and it still looked great. Put it aside to frame the next day and there were hundreds of little bubbles throughout the surface. I tried running it through the press again and had the same results.
Click to expand...

I had the same results a few years ago and recently tried it again on a personal poster, bubbles....



[video=youtube;dw032KhfYXE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw032KhfYXE[/video]
 
If its valuable, don't drymount it.

That's the only thing worse than not using a mat.

Frame it, as is. Lay glazing on the top. At least its reversible (besides light and humidity damage risk, of course.) And then hope it doesn't crinkle in time.
 
Upsell them to acrylic instead of glass. If the glass breaks, it will shred their valuable poster. Acrylic won't break.
 
PaulSF said:
Upsell them to acrylic instead of glass. If the glass breaks, it will shred their valuable poster. Acrylic won't break.
Click to expand...

Yes, and if the frame with glass were exposed to certain environmental conditions (one time may be enough), glass would condense moisture readily, leading to cockles/wrinkles, mildew, foxing, mold, or perhaps other damage.

I would not recommend using glass in direct contact, but a Direct Contact Overlay (DCO) using acrylic is a different matter, because acrylic is a much better thermal insulator. Acrylic glazing could condense moisture, too, but it would require exposure to conditions much more extreme.

If you run a Grumble search for "dew point", you should find previous discussions of the condensation hazards.
 
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