Framing Standards

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nona powers

nona powers

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Jun 15, 1999
Posts
735
Loc
san diego
Somone wrote into HH and shared her experience with FACTS standards. It was a crucial part of her learning and she still uses it as a resource. I wanted to share my answer to her becasue it really needs to be read. I hope you ALL respond. Not just those who have, but everyone.

Your post is the perfect reason why FACTS is so important and must stay viable. If we do not get financial support in Atlanta from suppliers and manufacturers, and we should if framers show they support it, then FACTS will go away. Period, it will be gone. Don and Kris have put all they have into it for years and are ready to pull the plug if others don't take over the running and the financial support of it. The web site will be gone, the information will be gone, the standards will be gone. Those waiting to see what happens will see, it will be gone.

I'm spending a lot of time trying to get 1,000 framers to say they care enough about FACTS to send me a check for $30 or more (or even less) so the rest of the industry can see that FACTS is needed, wanted and will be supported by not just suppliers and manufacturers but also framers. If we will not support it, they will not support it and it will be gone. If the money is not there by Atlanta Don and Kris will not spend a lot more time trying to raise it, FACTS will be gone.

Write letters, make calls, we MUST have the 1,000 framers say they care by the morning of Sept 22nd for the meeting with the suppliers and manufacturers. Each of us, who thinks this is important, MUST take it on themselves to make it happen. I can't do it by myself. Each of us has to. It is the only way we will make it. If you have a large framing business, how about a check for every employee? It doesn't have to be a full $30. Let them help and speak for FACTS.

Jim is going to make boxes to collect checks in Atlanta. I know one box will be in the Raphael fabric booth. Scott has sent out letters, offered to donate $5 toward the $30 for every one of their customers who will subscribe to FACTS. I'm sure the Framespace booth will let us put a box in their booth. Greg has been a huge supporter of FACTS. I think Nielsen and Bainbridge will also but need to clear it, they have already donated $7,500. I've asked DECOR for room in their learning Center and maybe at the registration desk. We will get a few checks there, but enough? Maybe PFM will let us hand out flyers for every class they offer to see if we can spread the word.

Can we wait to find out? If I could take at least 600 or 700 there, I'm sure we will get the rest, BUT, I have no where near even that. Trust me when I tell you the industry is watching us. They are waiting to see the outcome of this campaign and if it fails, FACTS is gone.

If your setting on the sidelines for one reason or another, it's time to make a decision and write a check or say good-bye to FACTS because that's what will happen.

FACTS website is www.artfacts.org to see what all the fuss is about. Read it and you will see the value there and when you do, write a check, made out to FACTS and send it to:
Nona Powers, CPF, GCF
P.O. Box 600025
San Diego, CA
92160-0025

Someone asked about the activity on the FACTS website so Don sent me a printout from August alone and it is amazing. It goes for 7 pages so I won't post it all, but would like to copy in a few items. People from the US are visiting but also from around the world. It would be such a shame to lose this resource, but it will be gone if we don't support it. Simple as that.

Statistics Report for www.artfacts.org.

Analysis for the Month of Aug, 2002.

Server Activity Totals for Period:
Total sessions served : 4569
Total hits made on server : 32528

Page Views per Session Breakdown:
3846 (84.18%) sessions made 1 page view
448 (9.81%) sessions made 2-5 page views
143 (3.13%) sessions made 6-10 page views
87 (1.90%) sessions made 11-20 page views
32 (0.70%) sessions made 21-50 page views
7 (0.15%) sessions made 51-100 page views
4 (0.09%) sessions made 101 or more page views

Breakdown of American Traffic by State
Virginia, USA. with 1645 sessions. (36.00 % of traffic)
Texas, USA. with 486 sessions. (10.64 % of traffic)
New York, USA. with 271 sessions. (5.93 % of traffic)
Colorado, USA. with 225 sessions. (4.92 % of traffic)
California, USA. with 77 sessions. (1.69 % of traffic)
New Jersey, USA. with 31 sessions. (0.68 % of traffic)
??, USA. with 15 sessions. (0.33 % of traffic)
Washington DC, USA. with 9 sessions. (0.20 % of traffic)
North Carolina, USA. with 7 sessions. (0.15 % of traffic)
Massachusetts, USA. with 7 sessions. (0.15 % of traffic)
Ohio, USA. with 7 sessions. (0.15 % of traffic)
Georgia, USA. with 6 sessions. (0.13 % of traffic)
Wisconsin, USA. with 5 sessions. (0.11 % of traffic)
New Mexico, USA. with 5 sessions. (0.11 % of traffic)
Maryland, USA. with 5 sessions. (0.11 % of traffic)
Illinois, USA. with 5 sessions. (0.11 % of traffic)
Arizona, USA. with 4 sessions. (0.09 % of traffic)
Pennsylvania, USA. with 4 sessions. (0.09 % of traffic)
Minnesota, USA. with 4 sessions. (0.09 % of traffic)
Florida, USA. with 3 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)
Connecticut, USA. with 3 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)
Louisiana, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Missouri, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
New Hampshire, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Nevada, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Arkansas, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
West Virginia, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Washington, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
South Carolina, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Nebraska, USA. with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Kentucky, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Delaware, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Michigan, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Tennessee, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Indiana, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Iowa, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Oklahoma, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Rhode Island, USA. with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Total U.S. Traffic 2850 sessions. (62.38 % of traffic)
Alberta, Can. with 6 sessions. (0.13 % of traffic)
Saskatchewan, Can. with 3 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)
Quebec, Can. with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
British Columbia, Can. with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Total CDN Traffic 23 sessions. (0.50 % of traffic)

Breakdown of Traffic by Continent
North America with 2883 sessions. (63.10 % of traffic)
South America with 4 sessions. (0.09 % of traffic)
Europe with 57 sessions. (1.25 % of traffic)
Asia with 19 sessions. (0.42 % of traffic)
Australia & Oceana with 21 sessions. (0.46 % of traffic)
Africa with 3 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)

Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of North America
United States with 2850 sessions. (62.38 % of traffic)
Canada with 23 sessions. (0.50 % of traffic)
Guatemala with 4 sessions. (0.09 % of traffic)
Mexico with 4 sessions. (0.09 % of traffic)
Costa Rica with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Total North American Traffic 2883 sessions. (63.10 % of traffic)

Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of South America
Chile with 3 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)
Colombia with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Total South American Traffic 4 sessions. (0.09 % of traffic)

Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Europe
United Kingdom with 19 sessions. (0.42 % of traffic)
Netherlands with 17 sessions. (0.37 % of traffic)
France with 7 sessions. (0.15 % of traffic)
Switzerland with 7 sessions. (0.15 % of traffic)
Germany with 5 sessions. (0.11 % of traffic)
Finland with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Italy with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Total European Traffic 57 sessions. (1.25 % of traffic)

Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Asia
China with 3 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)
Thailand with 3 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)
Japan with 3 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)
Singapore with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Hong Kong with 2 sessions. (0.04 % of traffic)
Israel with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Pakistan with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
India with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Iran with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Philippines with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Korea with 1 sessions. (0.02 % of traffic)
Total Asian Traffic 19 sessions. (0.42 % of traffic)

Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Australia & Oceana
New Zealand with 12 sessions. (0.26 % of traffic)
Australia with 9 sessions. (0.20 % of traffic)
Total Australian Traffic 21 sessions. (0.46 % of traffic)

Breakdown of Traffic from the continent of Africa
South Africa with 3 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)
Total African Traffic 3 sessions. (0.07 % of traffic)
 
Originally posted by nona powers:
Page Views per Session Breakdown:
3846 (84.18%) sessions made 1 page view
448 (9.81%) sessions made 2-5 page views
143 (3.13%) sessions made 6-10 page views....
Click to expand...
I don't like to be pessimistic, but the fact that only about 15% (about 700) of the people who arrived at the site looked at more than the page they landed on does not impress me.

If there were 4000 people interested enough to actually peruse the site and get information, THAT would be impressive.

Sorry, but at this point I really don't think FACTS is going to make it. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Since they are getting so many one page hits -- how about getting an advertising page or note on the first page -- announcing the program to collect donations to continue the site and the work. Even just an IMPORTANT, ie highlighted or something link to a page that has an article on the current efforts to continue the program.

I KNOW it is work, but it sure seems to make sense that FACTS itself should be helping more directly through the now greatly promoted site.

My curiousity is how much increased activity since all this began a month or so ago. Like number of hits May, June, July, August.
 
I tend to agree with Dave. This really is an uphill battle that appears to be running out of time.

I think it is a sad commentary on our industry that so many aren't willing to part with $30 to keep something so meaningful alive.

I'm not sure how much our stores would really use the services, but I understand the benefits to our trade. And they outweigh my measely $100 contribution by a ton.

But in the end, we all get the industry we deserve.

I really applaud Nona for her Bulldog tenacity. I would have given up on this important effort a long time ago. It's a shame that, as Dave suggests, it will probably be for naught.

I suspect that way too many of us would rather harp about the Michael's of the world. After all, that doesn't cost a dime. Maybe in this industry Nona has priced herself out of the market
 
I agree with Bob and Dave. I'm sorry Nona, but I think that the vast majority of our customers don't care about the fine details of what we do. I find that even my "old" customers that have been coming in for 25 years don't give a rat's ass about what's inside the frame package. They have only a few criteria.
1) It be cheaper.
2) It looks expensive.
I have always maintained (and taught)that we need to use acid-free, the best mouldings, the best glass, etc., etc. because in doing so the finished product A) Looks better and B)Lasts longer. Frankly, 99 % of my clients don't care. And I'm not talkin' the average "Joe" customer. My clients include the creme de la creme of American business leaders. (we're 35 miles west of N.Y.C.) and this county is THE wealthiest county IN THE NATION. But even here the majority don't care about FACTS. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the quality of the framing that I see from my competitors, really SUCKS, but the average person plain and simple can't see it. Even pointing out overcuts or any defect doesn't solicate a change in their attitude. They are more concerned about how it looks and how much it costs over how long it will last.
Don't get me wrong. I continue to use the best quality materials and workmanship, though I could make alot more money if I didn't.
I have been asked 1 time in 25 years of business if we use Japanese hinges. It happened last week. (I'm not kidding)
I believe FACTS is important but will die a slow death from apathy.
Sorry.
 
What the heck can we do in this short time that is left? I'll send in more money. I want our industry to be taken seriously. But more than anything I want the standards unified so there is no guess work.

I sent out twenty letters 10 days ago, I haven't seen Colorado people show up yet. I have been framing in a cave the past 8 years, I am not known (yet) amoungst my framing peers here in Denver. We don't have a local PPFA (yet). I had wanted to go door to door but I work Monday -thru Sat from 6am to 8pm. So what is left? I will do it if anybody has any ideas.

Why this arbitrary deadline? If they were losing steam why only a couple months to revive it? I had not heard of FACTS until I came here to the Grumble. I've been framing for 16 years. It seems unfair to have this deadline. I realize they are out of money but let's have a more serious campaign.
 
Let's not be writing the obituary just yet.

As for extending the "deadline" - I don't think so. Atlanta is where and when the educators will be meeting to discuss including FACTS in their programs, it is where the vendors will be meeting to learn why they should support FACTS and it is where FACTS will either move to the next level or fizzle.

Grumblers and HHers have been hearing about this campaign for a couple of months now and many of them - even those that support FACTS and have sent their checks - are getting pretty sick of it. By September 22 it will be time to begin the work of updating and teaching FACTS standards. Nobody wants to be fund-raising until March.
 
I get a little confused by what seems to be circular arguments being put forward here -

Clients don't know what good framing is, therefore clients don't ask for good framing, therefore clients don't want good framing. (I'm not talking aesthetics here, just nuts and bolts).

Maybe I only see .2% of the 15% of the population that has things custom framed, but believe me, that .2% cares a LOT about how their art is framed. Many of them are quite angry about what has been done to their art by framers who either didn't know any better, or who thought that the client didn't care, or were just plain crooks.

Disappointed clients tell me that they left it to the framer to decide what to do, because they thought the framer was a professional. Well, there is fault on both sides - buyer beware and all, but it really is up the galleries, framers, conservators etc. to educate the clients and themselves. Curly - one client in 25 years asked you for Japanese paper and wheat starch paper hinges, but do you make a point of offering them to your clients, and extolling their virtues? (I realize you're probably tired and experiencing a bit of a let-down after your heady Florida adventures!)

And I'm glad that manufacturers and suppliers are helping out with FACTS because like it or not, many of the materials that they supply, used in the suggested manner or not, have caused a lot of damage. I think that a CPF brochure and FACTS flyer should be included with each order, because that is the only practical way to reach the many many uneducated framers out there.

Rebecca
 
I am going to have to "what she said" Rebecca here.
It is my customers I owe for my quest for the bestest!
They are the ones who nudged me into full c/p framing- I'd have been content doing "parlour framing*" (*thanks, JRB) the rest of my career. They are the ones pushing me into better quality frames ("is this 24K?" asked one woman last week,) years ago one woman said, after she picked out her fabric mat, "You mean you are going to cut right through the linen?" The Goddess learned fabric wrapped mats right away.
They know the difference between rag and buffered boards and they know that pressure sensitive adhesives are not used by museums. Very little of this they learned from me, most of it they learned from ...?
I am now on a kick to educate them about UV Glass, most adhere to the notion that, "Well, this room does not get much sun." I am working on them. If they don't use it this time, they will use it next time. Or at least think about it.
So, Curly, next time they come visit you, they will ask for it by name and they will say that The Goddess told them about it! (I have customers moving to your area next month! They know about hinges, too)
edie the nudgeable goddess
 
Originally posted by Curly Grumble:
...I find that even my "old" customers that have been coming in for 25 years don't give a rat's ass about what's inside the frame package. They have only a few criteria.
1) It be cheaper.
2) It looks expensive....I have been asked 1 time in 25 years of business if we use Japanese hinges. It happened last week...
Click to expand...
Curly:

The "old" customers who think cheaper is better are flocking to BigBox framers -- that's their target customer base, and they serve it well. Small-shop framers attempting to beat the BigBox framers on price are the ones "dying a slow death." Indeed, they're already dropping like flies.

You have been asked about Japanese hinging only once, so far. Could it be that consumers are becoming more aware, and that you will get that kind of inquiry more often in the future? And if so, will framers be ready to respond to those "new", better-informed consumers?

The core purpose of FACTS is to raise the level of framing quality throughout the industry, and provide consistent understandings and terminology. For example, informed framers -- and consumers -- now know that the term "acid free" is an inaccurate buzz phrase. The so-called "acid free" framing materials never were the best available. The best materials are, and always have been, inherently "chemically inert and pH neutral". Framers who don't thoroughly understand that difference need FACTS the most.

There probably will not be a "slow death" for FACTS. It will either spring to life immediately after Atlanta, or you may never hear of it again. Atlanta is where the "jury" of framers and suppliers will return its verdict on FACTS, once and for all. Re-trial? Probably not.

Curly, your mention of "apathy" as an excuse for not supporting FACTS reminds me of a framer I spoke with a couple of weeks ago. She, like you, said FACTS standards are a wonderful idea, but she's not willing to part with $30 for it. She thinks FACTS represents just too great a potential for "The Powers That Be" to let it go away. She thinks all these appeals for the support of framing practitioners is just a sort of money grab by those "Powers That Be". She's willing to call their bluff. But at the same time, she expects "them" to make sure FACTS is there for her. Too many framers think there's no urgency to support FACTS.

Still, there's a lot of excitement about FACTS now, thanks to Nona, Ron and a few others, and many more in the industry understand what the organization is about. I think FACTS will succeed in Atlanta. But if not, I wonder how many framers would complain later that "them" didn't get the job done for the good of the industry?
 
Here's a portion of an actual conversation I had with a guy not 20 minutes ago when he called about matting and framing some prints.

Him: "Do you believe in that acid-free stuff?"

Me (if I may be so bold): "I believe that if the items to be framed have any value at all - either monetary or sentimental - we should use the best quality matboard and backing. And if they have no value, why would you frame them? What have you got?"

(I am sometimes tempted to add, "Unless they are photos of your mother-in-law who is coming for her first visit," but, so far, I've left that part out.)

"They are four old Currier and Ives lithos." :eek:

I gave him a ball-park estimate, including UV glass. He thanked me, got ready to hang up, and said, "Um, that was for EACH ONE????"

People are getting smarter, but ya gotta give them some time and a little help. How are they going to get smarter if we don't educate them?
 
Originally posted by Ron_Eggers:
People are getting smarter, but ya gotta give them some time and a little help. How are they going to get smarter if we don't educate them?
Click to expand...
Can we have one day set aside for this education? Say, next Tuesday? "You there, over in Iowa! Yaa, you! Please don't talk to the other students while we're conducting class. O.K. please continue Professor Eggers."
(I'm sorry for the brief moment of levity. To continue.)

I HAVE been educating my customers for years. We have to remember that more than half of the students out there (regardless of how successful they are now, got c+ or worse in courses they took in school. How do we teach those knuckleheads if they don't want to learn or don't have the brain power? Even though my clientel is made up of extremely successful, professional people, a lot of them are just plain stupid. Put the stupidity together with apathy and you have an education problem. Most people are caught up in what it looks like, RIGHT NOW. Not what it'll look like in the future. And frankly, when a second rate framer uses second rate materials, you and I might see the difference, but most people can't. I would bet that only 25% or LESS of the framers on THE GRUMBLE do truly quality framing. The other 75%, cut corners both in material and workmanship, chasing the almighty buck. In the real world it's probably more like 10% vs. 90%. And I'm sorry, but that's the reason FACTS won't get enough industry wide support.

I wish I was wrong, but I know I'm right. (Sounds like the title of a Country Western song)
 
I agree with many of the comments made by Curly.

I haven't been framing for 25 years like some, but I can remember when our industry wasn't concerned with the conservation practices that we know about today. We catered to the needs of the public that we served and were thankful for any job that came our way. Now we have a small minorty that believes we should respond differently to our customers. Don't get me wrong. As I learned more about conservation materials and how they affected artwork, I believe that it is the ulitmate goal of our industry to be able to provide them when requested. I also believe that it is important to educate our customers and let them know the risks that we know now of framing something of value with less then FACTS standard materials, but we have to accept the needs and wants of the majority of our customers now.

I disagree that 90% of our industry are cutting corners and workmanship to "chase the almighty buck". I do, however, agree that 90% is an acurate representation of Framers in our industry that are listening to what their customers want, what they want to spend, and, yes, are very concerned about making ends meet, feeding thier families and surviving in a very competitive retail market.

I can compare our industry situation to the photo processing industry. 90% of our customers are basically camera "stupid". I try, every day, to educate those customers on the value of good equipment and proper processing. I talk till I'm blue in the face about the value of supreme paper and the cost factor of having the best equipment in the industry to provide that product...but you know what?....the majority dosen't care! Everyday, we get backlit photos, people who think that there $30.00 point and shoot flash will pick up the kids on a stage 40 feet away, will go on a $4000.00, once in a life time trip and take pictures with a $10.00 throw away camera...it's very frustrating, but it's a reality. It's the 5% of the population that appreciate a quality camera, understand how its works and take pictures that are perfect in every detail, that are usually the people that appreciate the high standards that we wish everyone did in our own industry.

My point is that as much as we'd like to change the world and I believe that we slowly are, we have to meet the desires of the majority of our customer base and be satisfied with that fact.

As much as we'd love our indsutry to be more that what it is, I believe that the repsonses to FACTS and the desires of the majority of our customers...in the real world...dictate someting very different.

Ted
 
Originally posted by Ted:
...I can remember when...(w)e catered to the needs of the public that we served and were thankful for any job that came our way. Now we have a small minorty that believes we should respond differently to our customers...As much as we'd love our indsutry to be more that what it is, I believe that the repsonses to FACTS and the desires of the majority of our customers...in the real world...dictate someting very different.
Click to expand...
Ted:

Who is the "small minority" and how do they think "we should respond differently to our customers"?

And if "the majority of our customers...in the real world...dictate something different" than what FACTS advocates, what is it they want?
 
I think sometimes we give our customers more choices than they really want. If I say, "I recommend UV glass to help minimize fading" then the choice might become "regular" or "anti-reflective," depending on where it's going to hang. If I ask, "Which of the 18 (or so) glazing options would you like?" they're going to say, "The cheapest one," or, more likely, "What's glazing?"

The only time we discuss paper mats is if they are trying to match an old mat (which is probably a different color by now, anyway.) Then I might say, "This color is now available in the better-quality rag mat."

And so it goes . . .
 
I leave the room for five minutes and the naysayers come out. NO FACTS is not dead and this campaign is not going to fail. Keep it in perspective. I started a little over a month ago. There was nothing but some people like Ron, Jim, Betty and Kathy to help me but look how many people now know about FACTS who didn't before? Look at how many, not only care, but also have sent checks to show they care. Maybe not 1,000 but still a lot have. AND they care passionately. Most of these checks came with notes expressing how much they care. We just need to get the rest off the fence. We need to talk to other framers. We just need to ask for checks. JUST PLAIN ASK. Hey, writ me a check. The most thy can say is no. One guy last night told me no, he didn’t want to write a check. I said, "You truly don’t care about industry standards?" Well yes, then write me a check. He gave me cash instead. There are, truly are 1,000 framers who care and if we don't give them a chance to contribute, we've cheated them out of a valuable tool that FACTS is by letting it disappear.

Those people like Jim described who are setting on the fence and letting “OTHERS’ do it, should be ashamed of them selves. They can’t give $30 to raise the level of their profession? The business that feeds them, is not worth $30? I just have no answer for that. It’s beyond me.

Come on guys, don’t give up, work harder. We truly can do this. More people are aware of the campaign now, just ask for checks. PLEASE!!!!

Nona Powers, CPF, GCF
www.nonapowers.com
 
I always get tickled when someone mentions "the almighty buck" perjoratively. I never met a single person that went into business to lose money. Although many do.

I've never met anyone that went into business due to any altruistic sense of doing good. Although many change.

The truth is we all need to make money, and as much as we can to sustain our operations. None of us , when having a really good day, shuts down at 2:30 because we've made enough for today. What's enough for you is probably not enough for me. What's important to you may not be important to me.

10% of this, 90% of that. Let's be serious. The potential market for all of us is huge. Do what works for you, your standards, your needs. There is a reason why there are Ruth's Chris and Morton's steakhouses and Sizzlin' Sirloin's. Because customers vote with their pocketbooks.

I'm always amazed at some of the same people that insist on only the finest C/P materials will be staying at Motel 6 in Atlanta. Don't you think the hoteliers at Westin think that the people at Motel 6 are real bottom feeders? It's exactly the same way we view some of the same issues here.I know somebody will repeat that duct tape story or the masking tape story or how about that whopper of an Industry Mounting Expert writing in PFM that she had siliconed down some Broadway Tickets (ruined, and of course irreplaceable). The fact is we all probably have work we love to get back as standards change.

But yet we continue to be the "them , but not us" group. As if it is some great justification (rationalization) for misery loves company.

So my take: Do the best job of taking care of your customer with what they need and want. Just listen to them, they will tell you what they want and how much they are willing to pay. Remember, probably a smaller percentage of people have eaten at a Ruth's Chris (have you?) than have had something framed. And, Ill bet that a lot more people have eaten at a Sizzlin' Sirloin-type than have had something custom framed.

You want to be a Ruth's Chris or a Ferrari dealer or a Tiffany's-then you better do it all to their level of service, quality, location. The whole enchillada. You can't talk the talk unless you can really walk the walk.

If you do that, and do it well, then the "almighty bucks" will take care of themselves
 
Bob,

As usual, you have rendered this controversy down to a few paragraphs that are easy to comprehend, whether one agrees or disagrees with your premise.

I ate at a Ruth's Chris Steak House in St. Louis a few years ago. It was a culinary experience and a definite explosion to my wallet when the check came!! Actually, I took a dinner date there so the impact was even greater and much harder to mask with a pathetic smile in her direction!!

But, if each of us were to face the reality of our individual situations and what we really want to have our customers think of us as, we would probably have to plead business hyprocrisy in that what we expect the customer to accept as a rational cost for the services we so expertly render is most likely somewhere in the far half of the spending spectrum that we frequent ourselves when we buy.

I have to say that the elegant service rendered by the servers at Ruth's Chris was nothing short of regal! (Absolutely NO pun intended there!!) They catered to our every wish and whim. Fresh lemon was sliced at the table for our spring water. Linen napkins were exchanged throughout the meal if there was a spot on one of them. Little caring things that you just don't get with most of your food service. It was a truly exquisite dining experience and one that I will not soon forget. Point being that this service is expected at a high end restaurant and is also paid for one way or another. And nobody twisted my arm or forced me into that establishment. I went because I was impressed with their presentation on the radio and was curious as to just how good they really were!

And that brings me to a point of advertising: if you are all THAT good at framing, why not tell it like it is?? Instead of a middle of the road commercial stating the whys and wherefores of quality matting and framing, why not jump in there and say something like,

"If you want the very BEST framing done by the very BEST in the business in this area, then you have no CHOICE but to come to XYZ Art Gallery and Custom Framing!"

If you feel that you are the best, then use those positive feelings to motivate others to come in and sample some of those positive vibes!

And I will almost guarantee that people will also begin to ask for your professional opinion of what to use and how to use it for an average non-c/p framing or for the most important item in their life that just has to be preserved at all costs! Sure, there will always be those customers that have to be schooled on the spot as to what we are trying to accomplish but that is to be expected in whatever line of business you choose to follow.

Framerguy
 
Originally posted by Bob Carter:
...I'm always amazed at some of the same people that insist on only the finest C/P materials will be staying at Motel 6 in Atlanta. Don't you think the hoteliers at Westin think that the people at Motel 6 are real bottom feeders?...
Click to expand...
Bob:

To carry on your anology, the problem comes when people who have never eaten a great steak believe Western Sizzlin's claim that their steak is just as good as Smith & Wollensky's.

Or when people who have never stayed at a great hotel believe Motel 6's claim that their place is just as good as the Westin.

Uninformed consumers may have the money for a Westin stay or a Ruth's Chris steak, but they think cheapest is best because they simply don't know any better. It's not a matter of money -- it's matter of recognizing value.

Motel 6 might be the best choice for a rural hiking trip with the kids, and maybe Westin is the best choice for the 25th wedding anniversary weekend. The choice depends on the purpose, and it isn't necssarily the same every time.

There's a time & place for the best, for the cheapest, and for everything in between. But in order to choose wisely, the consumer must learn enough to make an informed decision. Ignorance is not bliss.

Should the Westin let those misinformed souls suffer the consequences of their ignorance? Should the Westin try to compete with Motel 6's prices? Certainly not. Likewise, if we expect to earn the business of the typical consumer, then it's our job to maintain our values, and to inform them of the value our work represents.

The FACTS concept is about making it easier for framers to inform consumers. Not to decide for them, but to enable consumers to make their own informed decisions. That's the purpose of the benchmark standards, standard terminology, and concise, consistent descriptions of methods and materials.
 
I'm gettin hungry. McDonalds or the Bistro? Hmmmm?
 
Jim and Tom are right on target. We completely agree on everything.

As Tom so correctly points out, RC's does everything right knowing full well they will be paid for their services. I love to go there. Every part of the experience is first rate from the minute you pull up to Valet Parking.

But here's the rub. They don't skimp on anything-our industry is famous for it. They get the absolute best locations; locations finished out to look like it should. Everything fits into that aura.

But, we as an industry: Do we look as if we are the best-deserving of that high end clientele we all covet. Or do we look to save on rent, or do our own home-made finish out, or skimp on equipment or worse, payroll. C'mon, you know we all do it to some level. But we continue to see ourselves as offering quality products, quality service-expecting top dollar in return.

So what's missing? Why don't any of us have the same panache as they do. I know, I know some of us think we do have that appeal, but compared to what ?

Sure, the Mon and Pop restaurant can carry only Prime Cuts. But do they pull off the rest as effectively as RC's. We can speak of our own quality of material and workmanship til the cows come home.
 
I think the analogies are getting a little off track here. In my view, good quality framing materials and practices are the clean sheets or Grade A government inspected steaks one would expect to find at both high and low end establishments. It's the moulding "stacks", etc. that is the chocolate on the turned down bed or the French waiter with the cutting board and lemons. Phew, metaphores are tiring!

Isn't most of the money in the stuff that doesn't affect the C/P quality anyway?

And sure, lots of people go into business with altruistic motives. Making a living is necessary and important, but so is doing good. The two aren't mutually exclusive. As Bob, of all people, knows!

Rebecca
 
Everyone needs to read Frankie Schaeffer’s “Addicted to Mediocrity”. This is our world today, addicted to mediocrity and why Facts is a hard sell.

Can this addiction be changed? Yes, but it will take time.

Sincerely,

Jack
 
So, it sounds like there is a small but growing groundswell of support for FACTS. I think that in Atlanta we need to not just have a small group show up with a stack of checks. Let's set up a time and place for a demonstration of numbers - - all concerned framers in one area of the trade show at one particular time to show support for FACTS. It would be just like the sit-ins that we used to stage during the 60s against the war or against segregation with the big difference of being for something instead of against it.

It could be billed as A SIT-IN TO SAVE FACTS! Any interest?

Alice
 
Originally posted by Alice Perritt, CPF:
So, it sounds like there is a small but growing groundswell of support for FACTS. I think that in Atlanta we need to not just have a small group show up with a stack of checks. Let's set up a time and place for a demonstration of numbers - - all concerned framers in one area of the trade show at one particular time to show support for FACTS. <font color=red>It would be just like the sit-ins that we used to stage during the 60s against the war</font> or against segregation with the big difference of being for something instead of against it.

It could be billed as A SIT-IN TO SAVE FACTS! Any interest?

Alice
Click to expand...
I do hope that you weren't one of the "patriots" who egged some of us and threw rotton veggies at us as we deplaned in NYC after spending some hectic time overseas defending the rights to do exactly what you are espousing to do in Atlanta!!

As much as I support the FACTS movement and as vocal as I have been on a few posts here about getting off dead center and DOING something with your profession to make it easier to explain to your customers and providing all of us with some updated guidelines to follow in our daily work, I don't choose to "participate" in any "sit-in". My flower child days are long gone and were pretty well soured by a few "thistle children" who thought they could change the world by making examples out of the "militaristic pigs" who were killing children and dogs and cats!!

**** , we were simply doing our jobs of defending the freedoms that y'all take so much for granted today and seem to get riled up about when some two bit politician tries to take one of them away from you. Talk about hitting somebody's <font color=red>HOT</font> button!!! :mad:

Sorry for the tirade but that sit-in concept just doesn't "sit" well with me.

Framerguy
 
Let's not do a sit in. People do want to see the show and enjoy other things. We need to show our support for FACTS and someone had the idea of wearing buttons, with maybe a ribbon for the people who have sent a check. I think that is an excellent idea. I've asked Ellen to see if she can see that it happens. Everyone should wear a button, subscriber or not, but I would like the fantastic people who have the vision and foresight to see how important FACTS is to be acknowledged because they are very special people and truly care about the industry that serves them. I want them to stand out, because they do.

We are going to make boxes to hold checks and flyers saying what FACTS is and why it needs support. I need more booths for boxes. John Taff, DECOR's learning center would be a great place for a box? Nielsen & Bainbridge will let me put one in their learning center. Kyle offered Linco's booth. Raphael will have one in their booth. I haven't heard from Greg Fremstad yet, but I'm sure he will. I need to know very soon if we can put boxes in other booths so we can make the flyers that will direct everyone to the boxes. I hope we can put the flyers explaining FACTS and asking for subscribers at the registration desk. Any chance of that John? Maybe Debbie with Picture Framing Magazine would let us put a flyer on every desk for every class at the show.

We need people to hand out flyers if DECOR won't at registration. I've asked someone to handle rounding up volunteers. You could sure help with that effort. I want to blanket that show with info about FACTS and need a lot of help making that happen. Talk abot it, ask if people have subscribed yet, hand out flyers, wear a button, whatever we can do to get 1,000 framers behind it. Ideas?

I am going to corral people. Come anywhere near me and I will twist your arm. Getting darn gutsy I tell you. This is not going to fail. It is too vital for our industry and even if I can't reach 1,000 people via the Internet, I will at the show. I expect everyone else who cares about FACTS to be just a tenacious. I will go into that meeting on Sunday morning with 1,000 framers or expire trying. Well, maybe not expire, but I will be a bit disappointed if we don't make it. That cartoon of Charley Brown's Lucy where she screams AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!! You'll see me with my mouth wide open and that sound coming out. A SIGHT NO ONE WANTS TO SEE, OR HEAR, TRUST ME, SO LETS GET THIS DONE!!!!

Don't we need a victory party Sunday night? The Fate of FACTS will have been decided by then and it had better be victorious or you know what will happen. AAAARRRRGGGGYHHHH!!!

Nona Powers, CPF, GCF
www.nonapowers.com
 
A sit in? I don't think so.

Maybe a sit-in would provoke some authority to do something? There is "no controlling authority" (thanks, Al) to perpetuate FACTS.

Sitting-in would not help, but standing-up-to-be-counted would.

Too many framers are sitting on their hands, waiting for somebody else to do what they should be doing for themselves -- supporting industry standards.

Stand up for Standards .
 
Those statistics are so interesting. Is it possible to tell how many people downloaded each segment? I downloaded all of them to print them out. I suspect many people downloaded them. It just takes too long to absorb it all sitting in front of a computer screen. That would account for some of the low numbers.

I have to admit that I have been disappointed by the lack of donations from Texas, there are so many shops here. Some of the comments I have heard locally from long time framers are so preposterous I can hardly believe it .

I am, however, not discouraged about the future of the FACTS campaign. Judging from the FACTS statistics the state of Virginia could handle it all by themselves. I only wish I were going to Atlanta to help you all!

I like your restaurant analogy, Bob. I'll bet there are times that you choose one over the other for various reasons, the same way customers choose the level of
c/p framing they want for each framing project.
 
OK Framerguy -

You got me. No, I didn't actually "sit in" on anything. The war and the draft were over before I ever graduated from high school and integration was something I saw on the evening news. At least I think so. Sometimes I think it's just too much tube time on the history channel. (I grew up in a small town in Ohio where nothing like that ever happened.) Notice my post was at 12:47 am. Not my best time for clear thought!

The point I was trying to make was that we need to be seen. You know . . . all that squeaky wheel getting the grease stuff. Nona's button idea is a good one as are the flyers. I'm willing to put in some time handing them out and trying to spread the word.

It seems that this is the main forum for the effort to save FACTS. Like it or not, this forum does not reach everyone. I'm on the FACTS committee and I had no idea. Someone e-mailed a response to my query of "What's going on?" with a suggestion I log on here. Otherwise, I wouldn't know about it. I can't help but think there are hundreds of other equally out-of-touch framers out there who are totally unaware. Many of them will be in Atlanta, and guess what - THEY'LL ALL HAVE THEIR CHECKBOOKS WITH THEM!

I am all for anything to bring attention to the cause. Nona - let me know where and when to hook up with you to do my share.

Framerguy - I apologise.

Alice

ps. In reference to another topic on the Grumble, this is a good example of why I maybe shouldn't be using my real name!
 
Curly, why I otta kiss ya! A little levity and a large dose of reality should fix what ails this patient... Dr, Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard, this looks like a clear case of Anacanastanapan, brought on by the wringing of the hands. Once cured the ringing in the ears is replaced with the ringing of the cash register. Keep up the eloquent grumbling it drowns out the grumbling from my stomach caused by 20 years of framing.
 
This is a disheartening thread to read.
WARNING: THIS WILL BE A LONG REPLY!
I simply cannot imagine a person in business for himself that wouldn't want to be the best in their field, or at least the best he or she could be.
Most of the other framers in this area are only using papermats and back the artwork with cardboard. Most don't even do anything more than tape the artwork to the mat, and that's their idea of "mounting".
Pitiful.
I wish I had a $30 check for everytime I've heard "my customers won't PAY for that"; Nona would have her quota.
I have been frustrated for YEARS at the inconsistency in product terminology. It is so difficult to train new employees to "read between the lines" what's printed on the back of the mat corner samples (for example). The WHOLE reason I have a CPF is because I set out to get to the bottom of the mirky descriptions of "acid free", "lignin free", "buffered", "rag", etc....and found myself in even mirkier waters!
Right now, our industry suffers from the same lack of "regulations" that the food industry had before the FDA had to step in and set up some guidelines as to exactly WHAT could be labled "LOW FAT" or "LIGHT"! (trying to stick with the food analogy theme)

WHO in the industry would NOT benefit from some guidelines for our terminology, if nothing else?
Right now, framers are either pretty ignorant, or they have to set out to practically assume a chemistry degree to get the nitty gritty of the products we use on a daily basis. Surely there are more than 300 hundred framers HERE than have been driven to cuss words when they discover that some product they've been using for the past 4 months actually contains a fungicide that may be harmful to artwork....or any number of scenerios...I'm TIRED of having to do all this research! I'm too busy!! I have a business to run!! I'd recoup $30 in a week by the time I saved by not having to go into a long winded detail to my lastest employee! Most framers don't get into it because it's too darn confusing! Customers don't care because nobody has explained it to them! And if someone did explain it too them, there are a dozen other framers in the immediate area that will tell them that stuff doesn't matter! See the cycle?

I had an employee relocate and get a job with a framer recently. Last week she called to just say hi and let me know what's going on. Her new boss is prosperous and VERY busy. They sell NOTHING but papermats. They drymount EVERYTHING.
She asked her new employer (in business for 30 years or so) about selling conservation boards and her reply was that the people in the matboard industry had "created" the better boards so that they could sell them at a higher price and make more money. She told my former employee that the boards were only "marginally" better, and that I had bought a bill of goods from my suppliers and had brainwashed my employees. (EXACT quote)
You can BET that this woman has told this to THOUSANDS of customers throughout the years; customers that may have shopped a better framer, but was scared off by price, or just wanted a second estimate.
As an industry, we have no recourse to stop people like this from spreading their ignorance.
(And there's alot more of THEM than there is of US)
FACTS could be the beginning of a valuable resource, a tool for the rest of us to back up our position.

--For every framer who has opposed this effort and whined about $30 (for crying out LOUD!) I haven't heard any BETTER ideas! I quote Lee Iacocca: Lead, follow, or get the HECK out of the way!
 
"She asked her new employer (in business for 30 years or so) about selling conservation boards and her reply was that the people in the matboard industry had "created" the better boards so that they could sell them at a higher price and make more money. She told my former employee that the boards were only "marginally" better, and that I had bought a bill of goods from my suppliers and had brainwashed my employees. (EXACT quote)"

That is the exact attitude we are up against on the Grumble and the HHer's. They also don't believe computers are any more necessary than better mats, so, much of what gets said here is "preaching to the choir" (though many sopranos and tenors are content to take and take and take and never give back
). Arrogant people like that simply think they are sent from God to tell the ignorant (employees & customers) the way things are.
 
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