Framing images from a book

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Liquid

Liquid

True Grumbler
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
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61
Loc
Australia
Hello all..

I have a question to put to you.
Does anyone out there know from experience where a picture framer stands if he or she purchases a book by a popular photographer and then wants to frame the images from the book and sell them as individual framed items?
Is this an infringment of copyright?

??? Anyone..

Yvette.:shrug:
 
Look for fine print anywhere in the book, and I do mean fine and anywhere, that says anything to the affect of .......no part of this book may be copied or resold in part.......

I find this on calendars.
Did you Google copyright laws?

Ooorrrrrrr................print on the price tag, FREE art with framing package.

Sorry, I just got up.
 
I did this once for a customer. Surprisingly, it was one of the hardest things I have done, slicing the pictures out of the book. I felt like I was committing rape or something.

Guess the customer didn't have the same compunction....
 
No I haven't looked up copyright laws as yet. I thought I might be able to gain the wisdom of fellow Picture Framers as they can deal with this kind of thing.
It's a Ken Duncan book of BEAUTIFUL photographs of lakes, rivers, outback, surf, waterfalls.. etc etc.. They are approximately 50x25cm prints. The framing of them won't be a hassel as they are all the same sizes. I'm just a little cautious to frame.. or not to frame.. *Taps nail on tooth.. thinking*

Yvette:kaffeetrinker_2:
 
Liquid said:
It's a Ken Duncan book of BEAUTIFUL photographs of lakes, rivers, outback, surf, waterfalls.. etc etc.. They are approximately 50x25cm prints. The framing of them won't be a hassel as they are all the same sizes. I'm just a little cautious to frame.. or not to frame.. *Taps nail on tooth.. thinking*
Click to expand...
Yvette,
Welcome to the forum!

My advice is to not think about it any more. Do yourself a favour and just go on with another project where you won't be in any danger of facing legal action. Even if it was a nobody, it would be dangerous! Ken Duncan is one of the most famous photographers in the country!
 
Book? Most likely no chance you can do it legally.

Calendar, you'll need to find out a bit more - over this side of the Tasman it become Public Domain if published in a calendar.
 
osgood said:
Yvette,
Welcome to the forum!

My advice is to not think about it any more. Do yourself a favour and just go on with another project where you won't be in any danger of facing legal action. Even if it was a nobody, it would be dangerous! Ken Duncan is one of the most famous photographers in the country!
Click to expand...

Good point Osgood..

and thanks for the welcome.. !

Yvette.. Xx
 
Lance E said:
Book? Most likely no chance you can do it legally.

Calendar, you'll need to find out a bit more - over this side of the Tasman it become Public Domain if published in a calendar.
Click to expand...

Yeah.. I was afraid of that.. oh well.. it was worth the thought..
*smiling*

They are some of the most beautiful pictures I have seen though.. just brilliant.. !

Yvette.. Xx
 
Yvette,
Perhaps you could contact Ken Duncan's office and find out if you can purchase his prints to sell.

His photography is awesome!

We have some great Aussie photographers. I saw one of Peter Lik's three galleries in Las Vegas while I was there and his are very striking. Obviously very popular in US.
 
Copyright laws are very tricky. If you were to frame up the images from the book and sell them as frames. Sort of "free print with each frame", then that would muddy the waters a bit, as technically you would not be reselling the images. But then, a lawyer would argue you were using the images for advertising purposes. If a customer bought the book and brought it to you to frame up the individual images, then that should be OK legally......or would it?
Then there is the "maybe nobody will find out" factor. Maybe you could sell them for years and the publishers would never notice. It's possible. But bearing in mind the consequences of a lawsuit, is it worth the risk? Don't think so.
 
osgood said:
Yvette,
Perhaps you could contact Ken Duncan's office and find out if you can purchase his prints to sell.

His photography is awesome!

We have some great Aussie photographers. I saw one of Peter Lik's three galleries in Las Vegas while I was there and his are very striking. Obviously very popular in US.
Click to expand...

Yes I think this might be the only solution to this situation..

I'll have to look into purchasing his prints rather than the images from the books.. I think that is the safest option..

Yvette.. Xx
 
prospero said:
Copyright laws are very tricky. If you were to frame up the images from the book and sell them as frames. Sort of "free print with each frame", then that would muddy the waters a bit, as technically you would not be reselling the images. But then, a lawyer would argue you were using the images for advertising purposes. If a customer bought the book and brought it to you to frame up the individual images, then that should be OK legally......or would it?
Then there is the "maybe nobody will find out" factor. Maybe you could sell them for years and the publishers would never notice. It's possible. But bearing in mind the consequences of a lawsuit, is it worth the risk? Don't think so.
Click to expand...

Yeah.. I agree..
That's the reason I checked first..
It's definitely not a risk I'm willing to take..

Yvette.. Xx
 
Yevette ...Welcome to the "G".

Please let us know what you find out after you make the call.

Enjoy your travels here!

:popc:
 
Liquid said:
Hello all..

I have a question to put to you.
Does anyone out there know from experience where a picture framer stands if he or she purchases a book by a popular photographer and then wants to frame the images from the book and sell them as individual framed items?
Is this an infringment of copyright?

??? Anyone..

Yvette.:shrug:
Click to expand...

Hi Yvette,

http://www.copyright.gov/

check this out, I'm sure you can also look for your country's specific copyright laws.

Any contemporary photographer's images are almost certainly copyrighted and you would be in violation to sell them. If a customer brought in a page and asked you to frame it for their own use, perhaps that would be ok, but anything that you have a question about needs to be researched. It's not just a matter of whether or not you could be caught, but the artist deserves to be paid for their work and we need to be ethical about respecting that.

Even images in the public domain may not be completely free to use for resale, you have to research it on an individual basis. I'm not an expert, but I worked in graphic design and printing and have fielded many requests to copy and reprint images. Most often had to say no.
hope this helps,
GayleMarie
 
Being a photographer, I take offense when people try to do this. If a photographer produces a book, then the medium changes. They are no longer individual prints, but rather part of collection that was carefully thought about how to display (ie the dust cover, order of prints, sizes, & text. When you remove them from their context, they are no longer what the artist intended. This would be like re stretching an original oil to a different composition because you didn't like the composition of the piece as the artist created it.

If you truly like the images, and think they would sell well in you store, or even if you wanted to frame some for yourself, purchase them from the Artist as individual prints.
 
Copyright and law

First of all, I just found a great website on art law and copyright at http://www.artquest.org.uk/artlaw/copyright/28920.htm

Next, to the best of my knowledge, copyright covers all sorts of things, including something known as 'intended use,' which means if you buy a calendar you can't turn it into the top of a pretty box, or even resell it as framed art without risking violating copyright law. My guess is you can take a Kincade calendar (if you must) and frame a page for yourself, but you can't do it professionally and sell them in your gallery (even if you wanted to do that). I think even a copyright-free image like a Monet may be covered by copyright if it came from a book or calendar which was copyright protected. Of course, it depends how vigorously the copyright holder defends his rights... don't try to mess with M. C. Escher (my personal favorite) or someone else whose rights are protected!
 
Think of it this way:

You contact the photographer.

You become a dealer.

You make money reselling his art.

You have pictures you love in your gallery every day.

You frame what you love, and you love what you frame, and make a living at it.

Pick up the phone. Make a new friend.
 
GayleMarie said:
Hi Yvette,

http://www.copyright.gov/

check this out, I'm sure you can also look for your country's specific copyright laws.

Any contemporary photographer's images are almost certainly copyrighted and you would be in violation to sell them. If a customer brought in a page and asked you to frame it for their own use, perhaps that would be ok, but anything that you have a question about needs to be researched. It's not just a matter of whether or not you could be caught, but the artist deserves to be paid for their work and we need to be ethical about respecting that.

Even images in the public domain may not be completely free to use for resale, you have to research it on an individual basis. I'm not an expert, but I worked in graphic design and printing and have fielded many requests to copy and reprint images. Most often had to say no.
hope this helps,
GayleMarie
Click to expand...


Thanks GayleMarie..
I think I will just purchase the individual prints. I think that will be the best thing to do..

Yvette.. Xx
 
Uncle Eli said:
Being a photographer, I take offense when people try to do this. If a photographer produces a book, then the medium changes. They are no longer individual prints, but rather part of collection that was carefully thought about how to display (ie the dust cover, order of prints, sizes, & text. When you remove them from their context, they are no longer what the artist intended. This would be like re stretching an original oil to a different composition because you didn't like the composition of the piece as the artist created it.

If you truly like the images, and think they would sell well in you store, or even if you wanted to frame some for yourself, purchase them from the Artist as individual prints.
Click to expand...

Yes.. Thanks

Yvette.. Xx
 
JeffreyPrice said:
First of all, I just found a great website on art law and copyright at http://www.artquest.org.uk/artlaw/copyright/28920.htm

Next, to the best of my knowledge, copyright covers all sorts of things, including something known as 'intended use,' which means if you buy a calendar you can't turn it into the top of a pretty box, or even resell it as framed art without risking violating copyright law. My guess is you can take a Kincade calendar (if you must) and frame a page for yourself, but you can't do it professionally and sell them in your gallery (even if you wanted to do that). I think even a copyright-free image like a Monet may be covered by copyright if it came from a book or calendar which was copyright protected. Of course, it depends how vigorously the copyright holder defends his rights... don't try to mess with M. C. Escher (my personal favorite) or someone else whose rights are protected!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't dream of it..

Yvette.. Xx
 
Baer Charlton said:
Think of it this way:

You contact the photographer.

You become a dealer.

You make money reselling his art.

You have pictures you love in your gallery every day.

You frame what you love, and you love what you frame, and make a living at it.

Pick up the phone. Make a new friend.
Click to expand...

Oooooh Nice.. !

Yvette.. Xx
 
To be clear, if a customer brings in pages cut out of a book to be framed, NO PROBLEM. I'm not turning him away. I'm selling him custom frames not the images.

Buying a book, cutting out images and framing them to sell is a CLEAR violation of copyright laws. You will be caught. Your competitor will turn you in.

framer
 
It's my understanding that you can't reproduce the image, nor can you resell it as NOT a part of the original work.

BUT...

If a customer wanted it framed, you can do it. The customer isn't selling the book and therefore you've not violated anything just by framing it; however...if the customer decides to sell it and your sticker's on the back and the photographer balks...you may have to provide proof that you only framed it for the customer.

The customer should be made aware of the copyright laws as they pertain to the item, even when you say 'yes'.
 
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