framing a removable dagger

Rare earth magnets to hold it in place.
I used them to hold a sword in place so it could be removed.
No visible means of holding it so it a really clean job.
 
:thumbsup:
 
Round ones are fine. Don't need much in the way of magnets as they are so strong.

2 magnets around 1/2" - 3/4" should work fine.
 
The magnets are rated by the amount of force they can generate.
There is also considerable difference between pull force, and sheer force.
Pull force is the energy it takes to remove the magnet from a flat surface by simply pulling it away.
Sheer force would be sliding the magnet off of the flat surface to remove (much easier).
If the dagger is displayed vertically, sheer force would be more at play and a stronger magnet may be needed.
 
This discussion regarding pull force & sheer force would, I believe, also pertain to double-faced wall tapes like those "Command Strips" for hanging, amongst other things, picture frames, etc. --- I, personally, instinctively, disdain Command Strips hype & usage for same (I'm not alone in these sentiments).

If, however, what I'm saying is in error, please feel free to correct. Your custom framers' expertise certainly trumps mine (the verb, not the name).
 
A significant number of frame glass replacement jobs I do are caused by failed Command Strips.
Second only to frames damaged during shipping.

I'm not a fan of them either.
However, I will say that having seen how they work, I suspect a good a portion of these failures are do to improper use / user error.
 
A significant number of frame glass replacement jobs I do are caused by failed Command Strips.
Second only to frames damaged during shipping.

I'm not a fan of them either.
However, I will say that having seen how they work, I suspect a good a portion of these failures are do to improper use / user error.
Nikodeumus: One further personal addendum to what I said regarding double-faced wall tapes for hanging anything of weight, especially glassed picture frames (a little bit less of an issue with plexi-glazed picture frames which at least don't shatter if fallen): Some time back, on a painted drywall, I hung up a plastic-wall-hook using Goop-adhesive in place of the hook's defunct wall-tape, said Goop having already performed excellently hanging up same type of hook against a glazed ceramic bathroom tile (which still adheres to said tile & has held a hair-blower for years). A few days later, I noticed that this hook had seemingly "fallen off" said wall, but it hadn't, as its adhesive was still clinging to shards of painted drywall / gypsum-board --- the adhesive hadn't failed, the paint to which the adhesive clung had proved itself insufficient in its bonding to its substrate, ie, the drywall.
This experience, at least to myself, seems to indicate that unless a wall (usually drywall) has been painted professionally, once, & probably not multiply re-painted, one can never be sure with adhesives like Goop or wall tapes like Command Strips to hold anything of weight, the exception being unframed or extremely light posters, against these types of wall substates.
I personally wouldn't gamble with non-wall-penetrating picture frame supports to hold framed artwork, glassed or plexi-glassed (obviously, this admonition pertains mostly to drywalls).
 
You are attaching to the weakest layer in the mix. It can be any position in the strata, but it's the one that will eventually fail.
Bonding to a non-porous surface with some adhesives (as in Goop on ceramic tile) is a much more secure bond, and not likely to be affected by changes in humidity as porous surfaces and structures are.
The argument against putting a hole in the wall fails along with the tape/Goop since the repair for each is requiring filling and repainting, though a nail hole is generally much smaller than a strip of foam tape or a button of Goop.
 
The argument against putting a hole in the wall fails along with the tape/Goop since the repair for each is requiring filling and repainting, though a nail hole is generally much smaller than a strip of foam tape or a button of Goop.
That's what most people don't think about. A Floreat-style picture hooks puts a minuscule hole in the wall, which is virtually invisible even before patching (which can be done with a small dab of spackling compound on a fingertip), whereas any kind of adhesive is going to be much more invasive.
:whacky: Rick
 
You are attaching to the weakest layer in the mix. It can be any position in the strata, but it's the one that will eventually fail.
Bonding to a non-porous surface with some adhesives (as in Goop on ceramic tile) is a much more secure bond, and not likely to be affected by changes in humidity as porous surfaces and structures are.
The argument against putting a hole in the wall fails along with the tape/Goop since the repair for each is requiring filling and repainting, though a nail hole is generally much smaller than a strip of foam tape or a button of Goop.
Wally (I hope that's your name), you extend my argument against wall-tapes/Goop as picture hanger supports on porous surfaces like drywall much more succinctly & scientifically accurate than I did & for that I thank you (as always, positive or negative elicited comments to what I say are appreciated, as long as they're accurate & not mere personal opinion: how else can one extend one's knowledge in issues beyond one's original training &/or experience [within the so-called plastic arts, ie, painting & drawing, I'm much more empirically knowledgeable, but even there, I don't claim to know everything]?).
 
Back to the original question....dagger framed with no glass and removable.
Is there any reason formed rods, bent hooks, or a cradle of some sort wouldn't work?
I'm thinking of the kind of methods that people use to display swords, guns, hockey sticks, guitars, etc.
Just much smaller, and with a frame around it.
Am I envisioning the design concept correctly?
 
I agree wholeheartedly with all of the above posts regarding the uselessness of any kind of adhesive based picture hangers, with an extra contemptuous curl of the lip for 3m's much hyped "Command Adhesive".

The main problem (and lucrative source of repair work) I saw was from customers who bought the claim that they could hold 8kg. On a non-porous surface and applied correctly that may be true but most homes are painted with matt or semi-gloss paint which greatly reduces the area of contact for starters. Add the fact that in a rental property the last paint job was probably a fast and dirty "once -over- with-the- roller" deal and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
 
Back to the original question....dagger framed with no glass and removable.
Is there any reason formed rods, bent hooks, or a cradle of some sort wouldn't work?
I'm thinking of the kind of methods that people use to display swords, guns, hockey sticks, guitars, etc.
Just much smaller, and with a frame around it.
Am I envisioning the design concept correctly?
There are multiple solutions that are pretty much equal in risk to the object being displayed. The traditional methods you have mentioned and magnetics will all provide solutions. Because the object in question contains iron, magnets seemed a natural answer.
Just another tool in the bag.
 
I agree wholeheartedly with all of the above posts regarding the uselessness of any kind of adhesive based picture hangers, with an extra contemptuous curl of the lip for 3m's much hyped "Command Adhesive".

The main problem (and lucrative source of repair work) I saw was from customers who bought the claim that they could hold 8kg. On a non-porous surface and applied correctly that may be true but most homes are painted with matt or semi-gloss paint which greatly reduces the area of contact for starters. Add the fact that in a rental property the last paint job was probably a fast and dirty "once -over- with-the- roller" deal and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
My point exactly. (What I find interesting though is how people's gullibility & naïveté regarding junk like Command Adhesive, used improperly & inconsistently, seems quite common worldwide whereas sense appears very uncommon [to slightly paraphrase Robert Heinlein].)
 
My point exactly. (What I find interesting though is how people's gullibility & naïveté regarding junk like Command Adhesive, used improperly & inconsistently, seems quite common worldwide whereas sense appears very uncommon [to slightly paraphrase Robert Heinlein].)


I recall a little jingle which ran something like this.

"Oh what could be the reason
i've often wondered why
We call it common sense
When it's in such short supply"

It may have been by Spike Milligan
 
Rare earth magnets to hold it in place.
I used them to hold a sword in place so it could be removed.
No visible means of holding it so it a really clean job.
Do you have a recommended resource for the magnets? I also have a dagger they want removeable but have not used magnets yet. Also technique on using them would be appreciated. Thanks
 
Gwen Spicer is the go-to.

 
I have an antique horse hide carriage blanket. The back is lined with heavy velvet. Someone at some point had sewn a sleeve along the top for a long dowel to go through. I had it hanging by that for years. I packed it with out noticing the hide was starting to split along that edge. I am interested in hanging it again. I am concerned about the weight of it. I will not hang it from the end that has the damage. Would you use magnets on 3 sides to support it? Or all 4? It is quite large. Not exact measurements, but at least 72" x 84". Are magnets that strong. I have never used them in framing and I am curious about them.
 
I have an antique horse hide carriage blanket. The back is lined with heavy velvet. Someone at some point had sewn a sleeve along the top for a long dowel to go through. I had it hanging by that for years. I packed it with out noticing the hide was starting to split along that edge. I am interested in hanging it again. I am concerned about the weight of it. I will not hang it from the end that has the damage. Would you use magnets on 3 sides to support it? Or all 4? It is quite large. Not exact measurements, but at least 72" x 84". Are magnets that strong. I have never used them in framing and I am curious about them.
See post #21.
Lots of dynamics involved with something large and heavy, There are magnet systems made for things like that requiring a solid mount to the supporting wall, and multiple points of contact.
The magnets will be powerful enough to support the piece, but larger magnets will be all but impossible to move, hence the smaller multiple ones.
They will also be visible, so thought as to concealing them may be in order.
You may want to talk with an object conservator about consolidation the hide where it has begun to split, and generally see what you need to do to keep it in good condition. Having good photos of condition issues and accurate information about weight would help in assessing the correct magnet strength and number to use.
 
Interesting discussion.
One potential problem using rare-earth magnets: If the dagger is a “wall hanger” the blade is likely stainless steel, and is therefore not magnetic. If it’s a “real” dagger, then you’re in business.
 
Interesting discussion.
One potential problem using rare-earth magnets: If the dagger is a “wall hanger” the blade is likely stainless steel, and is therefore not magnetic. If it’s a “real” dagger, then you’re in business.
Valid comment: All steels are ferritic in nature & making them stainless may change their alloying elements, ie, more'n 2% nickel lessens steel magnetism yet often not entirely eliminating same --- not all "stainless steels" are non-magnetic though I would guess most combat blades (magnetic) prefer sharpness over stainless-non-rusting factors.
 
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