Carol Neff
Grumbler
I have a beveled mirror to frame. I know I don't put foamcore or anything behind the mirror, but is it better to use glazier points to hold it in a wood frame?
Framing a beveled mirror
- Thread starter Carol Neff
- Start date
I'm probably about to learn something new. Why would you <U>not</U> put fomecore or anything behind the mirror to cushion it and protect it from the fitting hardware?
Ron
Ron
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Carol,
It is not "Better" to use Glazier's Points, 3/8 inch to fit the mirror instead of Framer's Points which are 5/8 inch in length.
Glazier's points are designed for refitting old glass windows where the won't protrude as far. They can then be more easily puttied over.
Picture Framers sometimes use these shorter permanent points in hard woods as they are less prone to buckle when shot into the material.
Either way, you definitely want a backing material between the mirror and the points, so that the points don't scratch off the silvering while being fit.
John
It is not "Better" to use Glazier's Points, 3/8 inch to fit the mirror instead of Framer's Points which are 5/8 inch in length.
Glazier's points are designed for refitting old glass windows where the won't protrude as far. They can then be more easily puttied over.
Picture Framers sometimes use these shorter permanent points in hard woods as they are less prone to buckle when shot into the material.
Either way, you definitely want a backing material between the mirror and the points, so that the points don't scratch off the silvering while being fit.
John
Carol Neff
Grumbler
Hi Ron,
I read something on a framing discussion board not to put any foamcore or anything over the back and to hold the mirror in with little metal "L" braces. I guess I shouldn't believe everything I read. What would you recommend?
Carol
I read something on a framing discussion board not to put any foamcore or anything over the back and to hold the mirror in with little metal "L" braces. I guess I shouldn't believe everything I read. What would you recommend?
Carol
Carol,
I use a fomecore backing to cushion and protect the mirror and whatever fitting tool I happen to like at the time. Lately, it's the Fletcher Multimaster. I put on a dust seal and bumpers and strap hangers (with no wire) or Wall Buddies. Don't forget to color the inside of the frame's rabbet either black or frame-colored since that surface will reflect off the mirror and you don't want to see raw wood.
Ron
I use a fomecore backing to cushion and protect the mirror and whatever fitting tool I happen to like at the time. Lately, it's the Fletcher Multimaster. I put on a dust seal and bumpers and strap hangers (with no wire) or Wall Buddies. Don't forget to color the inside of the frame's rabbet either black or frame-colored since that surface will reflect off the mirror and you don't want to see raw wood.
Ron
Hi Carol,
I would not be in favour of using metal brackets to "hold" the mirror in place, the whole metal chipping the glass sounds too spooky for me. I have always used MDF of the appropriate thickness to make the frame flush at the back and held this in place with the point from the black Fletcher gun (the longer ones, I forget the name) before adding a dust cover. For the smaller mirrors this amy be overkill, but for the large ones it can be very helpful for installing (although very heavy).
Ron, how did you manage to remember to do the rebate? I used to remember after I though I had finished.
I would not be in favour of using metal brackets to "hold" the mirror in place, the whole metal chipping the glass sounds too spooky for me. I have always used MDF of the appropriate thickness to make the frame flush at the back and held this in place with the point from the black Fletcher gun (the longer ones, I forget the name) before adding a dust cover. For the smaller mirrors this amy be overkill, but for the large ones it can be very helpful for installing (although very heavy).
Ron, how did you manage to remember to do the rebate? I used to remember after I though I had finished.
RevBev
True Grumbler
Hope this isn't too off-topic, but when we order a custom beveled mirror, it always seems to come back a bit small, as if the glaziers started with our dimensions and then took off enough glass in the edge-working process to fall a bit short of that number. The result, if we've ordered a chop frame to that original stated size, is a mirror that sldes askew from the ideal alignment of the corner miters. Worth an extra week's wait to get a snug fit, I'd say.
ERIC
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Hi Ron - We spoke at the FS booth in NYC
I like to use foam or cardboard. Does MDF add too much weight?!? Mirror can be very heavy as it is.
How can you prevent warping? I did a 20 x 40 x 1/8 and it had a slight "fun house mirror" effect to it. The frame was not perfectly flat. Should I have replaced/rejoined, or is there a FIX for this?
I like to use foam or cardboard. Does MDF add too much weight?!? Mirror can be very heavy as it is.
How can you prevent warping? I did a 20 x 40 x 1/8 and it had a slight "fun house mirror" effect to it. The frame was not perfectly flat. Should I have replaced/rejoined, or is there a FIX for this?
Eric,
I wish we <U>had</U> spoken at the FS booth in NYC. In fact, I wish I'd <U>been</U> in NYC. Probably just somebody using my name and causing all sorts of trouble.
I don't think you can afford to worry too much about the finished weight of a framed mirror. That's why you're going to use strap hangers or Wall Buddies or some other "wireless" hanging system. In fact, I'd use 1/4" plate for all but the tiniest mirrors. That will do more than anything to prevent the warping you mentioned.
A small aside: I'm not real comfortable giving advice on mirror-framing. I've probably framed 100 or so in 25 years and I just stepped into this thread to ask a question myself. So if anyone disagrees with any of my suggestions, I hope you'll speak up. (Not that Grumblers are particularly shy about doing that.)
Ron
Here's a shy comment from a shy Grumbler (yeah, right 
, you say?) We color the inside rabbet and lip of the frame, lay in the mirror, add thick foamcore to cushion it, secure that with lots of points, then use pegboard masonite as a backer to cover the back of the frame to within about 1/2" of the outside dimension of the frame. We screw this masonite down on either side of the four mitres, and several other places along the four sides. Then a dustcover, mirror straps, and bumps. If you use the masonite, you virtually eliminate any weight problem on the side rails or mitres because the weight is distributed all around the perimeter of the masonite. The pegboard is strong but lightweight.
Works for us, and mirror framing is extremely profitable!
, you say?) We color the inside rabbet and lip of the frame, lay in the mirror, add thick foamcore to cushion it, secure that with lots of points, then use pegboard masonite as a backer to cover the back of the frame to within about 1/2" of the outside dimension of the frame. We screw this masonite down on either side of the four mitres, and several other places along the four sides. Then a dustcover, mirror straps, and bumps. If you use the masonite, you virtually eliminate any weight problem on the side rails or mitres because the weight is distributed all around the perimeter of the masonite. The pegboard is strong but lightweight. Works for us, and mirror framing is extremely profitable!
Kit
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Hey MM, great idea with the peg board. I'm going to (try to) remember that for future mirror framing. Except for that, we do pretty much what everyone else has mentioned: black foam core; framers points; dustcover; bumpons; and hook-ups.
My glass supplier tells me they don't recommend trying to bevel anything thinner than 1/4" mirror. I like w-i-d-e bevels, 1 3/4 or 2 inches, especially for mirrors that are just going to be used as decorative accents.
Kit
PS Did anyone else see Ron's evil twin in New York?
My glass supplier tells me they don't recommend trying to bevel anything thinner than 1/4" mirror. I like w-i-d-e bevels, 1 3/4 or 2 inches, especially for mirrors that are just going to be used as decorative accents.
Kit
PS Did anyone else see Ron's evil twin in New York?
- Joined
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Actually Eric, it was me who Jeff Grabowski of
FramerSelect introduced you to during the New York show.............I guess the Appleton connection had you confused.
We're both FramerSelect members
John
Bogframe
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I agree with the foamcore, using lots of points, coloring the lip of the frame (I always use black), but what I want to add is that I never wire a mirror frame, but use two D-rings (usually 2-holed) and NO Wire. This makes for more secure hanging, and no chance of a frame falling off a wall due to wire breakage.
ERIC
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
OH BOY !! How about an embarassed grumbler? 
Does this qualify as a U.F.O. sighting?
I had a sick feeling the second I posted that item. I wondered if I had mixed up the names, but knew that it would be clarified real quick.
Sorry Ron, I look forward to meeting you. And John, It was nice to meet you. Maybe I can get out to Appleton and find out why there are so many great framers there.
Has anyone done a mirror show? all sizes and styles. Would they sell off, or is this too much to do on speculation?
Does this qualify as a U.F.O. sighting?
I had a sick feeling the second I posted that item. I wondered if I had mixed up the names, but knew that it would be clarified real quick.
Sorry Ron, I look forward to meeting you. And John, It was nice to meet you. Maybe I can get out to Appleton and find out why there are so many great framers there.
Has anyone done a mirror show? all sizes and styles. Would they sell off, or is this too much to do on speculation?
Seth, I reread the posts and can't think anyone would come away with the idea they could use wire. Am I wrong? Wire is simply not an option on anything that has any weight, so to clarify: use vertical mirror straps on the vertical rails (more weight, more holes on the straps) and do not use wire on anything of any size or weight.
lise
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Just slightly off topic, I'm wondering whether anyone advertises in the "Mirrors" section of the yellow pages as well and whether they've had success. We are contemplating running a small display ad for this fall.
I also think having a mirror show is a fabulous idea.
I also think having a mirror show is a fabulous idea.
Frank Larson
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I think I'll jump in here with a little tip that has come in very handy for me. I do use wire on large mirrors but in a different way. I use the mirror straps as per MerpsMom but before I put them on I add a wire loop to them.Originally posted by MerpsMom:
Wire is simply not an option on anything that has any weight, so to clarify: use vertical mirror straps on the vertical rails (more weight, more holes on the straps) and do not use wire on anything of any size or weight.
Take a piece of heavy wire about 14" long and fold it in half. Take the folded end and stick it through the D-ring until you're about half way down the wire. Take the 2 loose ends and stick them through the folded (looped) end and wrap them around just above the D-ring. This gives you about a 3" loop on your strap hanger. This allows you to put the strap hanger towards the inside of the frame making it less visible from the side and much easier to get your hand on it for hooking on the wall hooks. Also if you're a little off level you can twist the wire loop to raise one side a little. I hope you can visualize this...I'm not sure I can explain it any better but I could show you in about 3 seconds.
Another tip is when putting this hanger on is to mark down from the top of the frame about 6-8" or so on each side. Then stick your awl through the loop and into the frame exactly on your marks. Pull down on the hanger and mark your holes. This will put your hangers at the exact same level on each side.
Bogframe
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
MerpsMom- I know most of us know that wire isn't an option, but I hate to leave anything to be taken for granted...besides, forewarned is forearmed, I always say.