Question Frames Separating at Corners

[dawntaylor]

I saw two framed pictures at a public establishment and saw they were coming apart at the corners. The smaller picture also had a multiple-cut mat that was bowed and a picture inside an opening had dropped.

Are these fixable? If so, how much should I charge to fix them? They look like they were v-nailed, but the moulding is almost 3" high.

Should they be replaced? If so, I will have to try to match the existing moulding, as this is a chain and they want everything to match.

I attached pictures of each, and close-ups of the corners so you can see how bad they are.

 

[GUMBY GCF]

Little advice fixing someone elses work. You are taking it apart then putting it back together.....twice the time.
How fast do you work? Will it take you an hour to take it apart and put it back together? One & half hours, two hours? What if you break the glass. What do you charge per hour for labor? Everyone charges different labor & everyone works at different speeds.
I would charge the fit charge & a disassemble charge for what ever size it is + a one hour labor charge for the shadow box and $5.00 a corner. Rarely do you only end up fixing anything less than all 4 corners.
If you low ball a job like this 8 out of 10 times you will end up make less than $5.00 an hour.

Good luck if you get it keep track of your time & let us know how you did. Good or bad and I can tell you there is not one of us out here who has not lost their shirt on at least one or two repair job like this....

 

[Jeff Rodier]

What Gumby said plus I'll raise him 1/2 hour just because it will jump up and bite you like that every time. I bet the next Grumbler to come along will raise me 1/2 hour.

I wonder about the quality of the miter cuts since it looks like there is a pound of putty in the joints. I bet when it is all said and done it would be less to start with fresh moulding.

 

[janetj1968]

Just from looking from what you've shown, I don't see any v-nails. Or a trace of a v-nail. Or even where a V-nail joint has busted. The wood looks smooth, except for broken glue and filler.

V-nails should normally be stacked within about 3/8 of the top of the moulding. If you're seeing a few on the bottom, that isn't enough to hold the joint together.

Looking at the amount of putty in those corners, they didn't even have a good joint to begin with.

I would offer to try and fix it at shop rate ($/hour), but tell them it if it can't be salvaged then they need to get another frame. (Imagine that finish popping off the face and leaving a huge ugly mark when you're joining your 4th corner). The depth of the moulding isn't likely the entire problem...maybe the angle on the face has a little to do with it. It's not something that can't be done.

But its probably a cheap moulding, improperly joined. Double whammy. They can either roll the dice hoping ANYONE will be able to get a good join using the same carp, or they can fork over a little $ to fix it by getting a better moulding. My guess is that if they've used it on all of their jobs, a good join would have to be possible or at least acceptable unless all xxx of them are falling apart at once. :/

Plus, pray the inside is better than their corners.

If they want a super cheap fix, you could always try gluing and pin-nailing without disassembling at all. Some people are fine with trying that. Again, no guarantee what the finish could do.

You have to also consider you could possibly "win" them over with your workmanship.

 

[Prospero]

Simple engineering. Deep moulding + small surface area on the joins = high failure risk.
If they were hung with cord/wire with the fixings on the side rails then the weight of the frame with impart a constant torsion on the joins. If (or when) the glue gives then the joins begin to yawn. Even if it were hung on straps or z-bars, the heaviest part (the glass) is bearing down on the weakest part of the join. It's a question of leverage.
I would never underpin a moulding like that. V-nails would hold it, but tend to weaken the join if you stack them deep in a narrow moulding.
I would glue and strap clamp and drill/nail the corners while it was clamped. I would use an epoxy glue as well. Leave in the clamp for 24hrs.

I would also charge a lot more for fixing such a frame than making a new one.

 

[wpfay]

Bad engineering from the get-go. If you do decide to take the job, you should probably price it to replace the frames and add strainers. From what I can tell there is material loss in the joints which were weak to begin with. Difficult to tell from the photos provided.

 

[snafu]

Are they poly?

 

[Rick Granick]

Not trying to discourage you from new business, but as others have said, this is a situation fraught with unknowns and potential perils. Once you start to work on it, it's your responsibility. Reversing and redoing poor workmanship from others is difficult and exasperating. If you take this on, make sure it is clear to the customer that this is a time+materials project because of its unpredictability, and charge enough to make it worth your while.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick

 

[freakquency]

.. and

I raise a half an hour!

 

[johnny]

For the collage reframe the thing in Clark profile 120 or Nielsen 33 and then glue the frame back together the best you can and cap it. Install wire from the metal frame the cap will be decorative and not carry any weight. Because of the small front profile of the metal mouldings they will be hidden from the front. This is what we do with the smallest Larson Juhl Grammercy frames.

For the jersey, IDK, ,maybe a strainer or a deeper metal frame that will show from the front a bit.

 

[Ylva]

From your opening sentence; I take it that you approached the owner or manager to point out the problem? They didn't come to you to have it fixed?

I have trained myself not to look too closely at frames in public establishments, waiting rooms and such. If I see something that might be a safety issue; I will point it out; hand over my business card and let them take it from there.

If they then want my professional opinion; I'll advise to replace the frame with the following explanation; trying to fix it and make it last will end up costing a lot more than to replace it with a new frame.

I will guarantee a new frame, completely built by me. I cannot guarantee a crappy frame, bad joints and a trying to fix it best I can kinda job.

From the look of it; that frame was never meant to go on either piece.

 

[Randy Jordan]

I totally agree with Ylva! I haven't been framing as long as almost everyone here, but, I do have a case where I tried to help the customer, by repairing the old frame. It lasted 8 months and guess who got all the blame, I finally built a new frame and gave it to the customer. Haven't seen them again. So I learned something about doing a job twice at once, the first time and the last time!! Randy

 

[Baer Charlton]

50% of what ever you thought would be your bottom quote if they brought
them to you.....

is probably double what they paid for them in the first place.

Stuff like that, will literally rot off the wall. . . then get replaced.

If this was an Applebee's...... they paid a quarter of what you started to think...
and they will replace everything on the walls with-in 5 years. EVERY tHINg.

 

[neilframer]

Most of these places beat the h#ll out of the artwork as they move it around.
How many times have you seen the homemade 'security' hardware.
Giant wood screws screwed right through the front of the frame into the wall. :icon9: