I recently emailed Baer the first draft drawings of the images I'm working on for the panels he so kindly carved out for me, jokeing that I thought one of them may resemble framer tg. After reading Rons' description on the frapple thread I'm thinking maybe I'm on to something. Anyway, the Grumble may just be the best thing to come along since the apple. Thank you so much framer. Hope we don't cause too many gray hairs.