Frame Forensics

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JeffreyPrice

JeffreyPrice

True Grumbler
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
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Loc
Norwalk, CT
I'm curious about the evolution of common frame practices, and by finding answers to these questions I will be able to more accurately date old frame jobs that come in, and like some frame fortune teller be able to tell my clients approximately when their old pictures were framed. I know there can be a wide range of dates, but do you know, approximately:
When moderns brads came into use for nailing backings into frames, or when hand-cut nails stopped being commonly used?
When framer's points started being used?
When cardboard became commonly available, replacing wood slat backs?
When foamcor became commonly used?
Dating braided picture wire?
When screw eyes came into use?
How to date old antique glass by its surface characteristics?
Any other ideas on dating common, but old, framing projects?
Who has the largest collection of old frame shop stickers rescued from customer's frames, and what are their most picturesque or interesting examples?
(wondering about these things is better than working, and work-related!)
 
This is an excellent idea and those who have been in the field, for several decades can be invaluable, here. Perhaps this thread can serve as a compilation of observations, to inform us all.


Hugh
 
JeffreyPrice said:
Who has the largest collection of old frame shop stickers rescued from customer's frames, and what are their most picturesque or interesting examples?
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I have a collection of two, but this one is cool!
 
Yesterday I removed rusted brads from the back of a photo that I was told was taken in the 50s. The frame was a walnut color half inch with gold bead and a chip board backing and easle. Metal from the easle was eating into the back of the photo. Foxing everywhere.

It's off for digital restoration:smiley:

We were certainly using framer's points by the 70s.
Backing was 3x.
2 ply mat was used as a barrier under paper mat.

I'll ask Jeff about framing practices before that time.
 
Isn't there a book already? I would have thought there was. I remember reading a book about the development of the nail, from hand cut to wire and the development of the machines to make the nails. Interesting read, but then my favorite book of choice as a teen had to do with house building in the 1700's and the use of adzes, pikes and awls.

And yes, I am still that boring!
 
I bet Paul Frederick would be a great resource for this project. How's he doing? Anyone here keep in touch with him?
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
I reframed an etching print that had hand made brads, square like in some old house building, holding the wood backing & print in place. The back of the frame was dated 1883.
 
Jeffery, I love your post. The questions you want answers to would be a great tool to inform customers and give them confidence in the framer they have chosen. I am anxious to know all the answers myself. All us have come across old frame jobs and can usually guess the rough age. But to be able to dazzle the customer with such specifics and dates would be fabulous.

During this slow time I will do a bit of research. I look forward to hearing what others here have to add to your questions.


JeffreyPrice said:
Who has the largest collection of old frame shop stickers rescued from customer's frames, and what are their most picturesque or interesting example?
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At one time several years ago, I worked in a shop with over 100 shop stickers. We had a large framed cork board we ATG'd them to. The most interesting one I have now is from a shop in Abu Dhabi. Not because of looks or design, just because it is from so far away.
 
Framing: said:
http://www.npg.org.uk/research/prog...re-frame/directory-of-british-framemakers.php
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Thanks for the link. That site should suck another 6,825 hours out of my life...... :icon11:

Oh well, how much can it contain? The whole site is under 8 gigs. :D
Great to see John Keller listed.

As back to what generally we will see coming into us to be fixed or reframed:

Float glass should take you back to about the mid to late 20s. Before that drawn glass, which will have the little inclussions of dust and the exemplar bubbles that instead of round are drawn out in to more of a 'canoe' shape. Prior to that would be smaller glass that contains a wavey pattern and round bubbles... and this would be "bottle" glass or "blown" glass. That will be the norm before about 1870s. And if you get any in........ [not bloody likely, as it would probably reside in a museum..... and Hugh hogs all of that work. :D]

"Cut" nails (looks like the square nails ferriers use to attach shoes on horses) can occationally be found on the east coast as late as the 1920s (usually used by older framers who are still doing things "the way they were taught".)
"Wire brads" with a squeeze gun or small hammer can date back into the 1890s.

The "original" framers points were nothing more than "glazer" points (little diamond shape) and shot from a gun instead of the oned with "feet" that were pushed into place with the same putty knife used to smooth the putty on the window. The "Diamond Points" are developed by C R Lawrence Co in the late 1940s to accomidate the enormous building boom across this nation. Framers (who were also ordering from CRL saw that a faster way to do their fitting..... and noone was thinking what a PITA they would be to remove.
You could ask Fletcher when they came out with the green, black, yellow guns and points that now dominate the industry.... but I'm guessing about mid to late 1980s.

Corrigated is a wandering target. Although the "concept" was first patented in England in the mid 19th C., the invention of corrigated kraft paper for boxes is an american thing at the end of that century as a means to deal with the huge need of two industries. 1) Boxes were long and tedious to make by wood even though finger joining had long become automated. 2) lumber mills had mountains of waste sawdust that they weren't able to burn fast enough. So along come the increase of cellulose paper made from waste (Kraft) into huge rolls, which are corrigated then glued between two face papers.
You probably won't run into any of the first use corrigated from before the late 1930s as that very crude kraft turned to dust by the late 60's...... and we would take a spatula to lift out the chunks and then remove the diamond points to get the glass out. :icon11:

Through the 70s and into the 80s, common practice (not preservation or conservation... just "Main Street" framing) used corrigated.

By the mid-late 80s, foam core is becoming more and more prevelent, but has a "not so good" reputation of being highly flamable, off gassing (but few of us called it that back then), voids in the core, incomplete curing of the foam (goo pockets) and many other things. A lot of the more "concious" LE framers/galleries/distributors were starting to just back with another sheet of rag board.

OK, next.
 
Ok Baer,what about a frame with bubbles in the glass(gotta go check the shapes now),and a backer board that is a bevelled piece of wood,about 1/2" thick and hand tooled.Sandwhich held together with small brads.had to strip and finish it,but I like it,so I`ll keep it... L.
 
When I started framing (early 80's), underpinners were a fairly new thing. Most framers I knew then used all sorts of nailing apparatus, cord clamps, spring clips, you name it. One lady had a weird machine that clamped a corner, then you pulled a handle which pushed a nail into the joint. At that time the word 'conservation' was relatively unknown in mainstream framing. A few years later, 'Acid Free' was the buzzword. Whitecore mats became the thing, although standard board was improved with buffering agents, so not so many blue mats with orange bevels after 1990 or so.....

After WWII, there was a great backlash against ornate frames. Simple frames were in. Plain woods in angular sections. Also wide canvas wrapped liners and off-white toned frames. Amazing how dated they look nowadays. Even the very popular 'yuppie' prints of the early '90s look a bit jaded now. (Classical ruins and Greek urns surrounded by french mats with marbled paper - you known the sort of thing)

A good way of studying popular frames of a period is to look at the ones in old TV progs. :icon21:
 
"Framing the Nineteenth Century, Picture Frames 1837-1935" by John Payne is interesting. Most of the frames were made in Australia, a few in Great Britain. It shows many labels of the makers and has great pictures.

"Antique American Frames, Identification and Price Guide" by Eli Wilner. Small book, not so great pictures, somewhat helpful in identification. (If someone brings in a piece with a 36 X 48 Charles Prendergast circa 1905 with incised and punched decoration, you might offer to take it off their hands. The book lists it at $225,000/275,000)

For pure framer eye candy you can't beat "Lowy, The Secret Lives of Frames, One Hundred Years of Art and Artistry by Deborah Davis.
 
Doug Gemmell said:
For pure framer eye candy you can't beat "Lowy, The Secret Lives of Frames, One Hundred Years of Art and Artistry by Deborah Davis.
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Without even getting out of my chair.... and easy win over Secret Lives (which I've just bought and am believing I over paid for a 200 page ad). "Repertorio dells Cornice Europa", and then after you're used to paying some nice bucks and getting your money's worth, you can step up to "Frameworks" . . . then while you're gasping for air (and money) "The Book of Picture Frames" is a nice book, but the all star has go to go to "Cornice de Medici" unabashed eye candy with applicable explanations for exactly the understanding of that period.

I'd like to see a better or fuller tome covering in depth the styles and driving world forces that influenced the American frames from 1620 - to the first sectional metal frame.
 
Baer Charlton said:
Without even getting out of my chair.... and easy win over Secret Lives (which I've just bought and am believing I over paid for a 200 page ad).
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I'm surprised you bought it Baer after spending an hour curled up with it on my counter. I thought you had it memorized.:D

I'd like to see a better or fuller tome covering in depth the styles and driving world forces that influenced the American frames from 1620 - to the first sectional metal frame.
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Get busy........you would be the man to write it!
 
I bought it because for $15, why not..... they hadn't written nearly as many annotations, high-lighter or ref notes in it as I did in the first hour.... :D
 
Baer Charlton said:
I bought it because for $15, why not..... they hadn't written nearly as many annotations, high-lighter or ref notes in it as I did in the first hour.... :D
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Now if I could get you to sign it, I would really have a collector's item!
 
Naw, the way I treat books... it would just fall apart. I also noticed that unlike some of the books I mentioned above, this was not printed on rag; just standard virgin, cut down the forest, chlorine laden, self destructing cellulose.
 
Doug Gemmell said:
"Antique American Frames, Identification and Price Guide" by Eli Wilner. Small book, not so great pictures, somewhat helpful in identification. (If someone brings in a piece with a 36 X 48 Charles Prendergast circa 1905 with incised and punched decoration, you might offer to take it off their hands. The book lists it at $225,000/275,000)

Good reference, but his prices are WAY out of whack (except in his shop!). If I could get 4 grand for the big walnut Eastlake mirror hanging over my couch it would be gone in an instant -

Wilner did a very nicely printed & illustrated book also - "The Gilded Edge". Heavy on Hudson River style, Stanford White, Cole Style, Murphy, Prendergast, Whistler, Matthews, etc.
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Guilded Edge is probably one of the most concise and clearly written essays on White or Prendergast I have ever seen. And there is a whole 'nuther time and style that 95% of framers have no clue existed.... yet they have been framing the posters of Pre-Rafaelite paintings for longer than I've been alive. It is also one of the most powerful and uniquely American periods and styles (even though Sargent is included in the period. I never understood that one either.. he painted portraits.... not fantasy midevil.
 
Baer Charlton said:
Guilded Edge is probably one of the most concise and clearly written essays on White or Prendergast I have ever seen. And there is a whole 'nuther time and style that 95% of framers have no clue existed.... yet they have been framing the posters of Pre-Rafaelite paintings for longer than I've been alive. It is also one of the most powerful and uniquely American periods and styles (even though Sargent is included in the period. I never understood that one either.. he painted portraits.... not fantasy midevil.
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Totally!

Another great book, and arguably the one that spurned the renewed interest in frames - "The Art & History of Frames", by Henry Heydenryk 1963. Total classic. I have a signed copy!
 
One of my favorite frame books is The Art of Framing (ISBN: 0609600818) by Piers and Caroline Feetham.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
Rick Granick said:
One of my favorite frame books is The Art of Framing (ISBN: 0609600818) by Piers and Caroline Feetham.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
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Just ordered. Coming from NC.... $5.95+S&H "some marks & written notes"... I love getting others thoughts...

Thanks Rick.

Note: I just went back to look at the description... on Alibus, and it was already taken off the "available" list. All the others start at $35 and go north of $65. How fortuitous is that? :D
 
Baer Charlton said:
Just ordered. Coming from NC.... $5.95+S&H "some marks & written notes"... I love getting others thoughts...
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It probably belonged to some poor soul whose copy you marked up 20 years ago. In another 20 years you'll probably get my Lowy book with your notes.:shrug:
 
Baer Charlton said:
Just ordered. Coming from NC.... $5.95+S&H
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Great find, Baer! Way to go. You'll love this book.
:cool: Rick

P.S. That book is ©1997. I also have another book called Displaying Pictures and Photographs (which is also excellent) that is ©1988 by Caroline Clifton-Mogg and Piers Feetham. So obviously they had chemistry together, beyond that involving frame finishes. However, when looking for an image of your book on Amazon yesterday I noticed another listing for a later printing of it ©1999, but only Piers was shown as the author. So either that was an oversight or things didn't work out so well. (I'm gonna go with the oversight theory bec. I don't think divorce would remove one's standing as a co-author of a previous work. Hopefully they are still together in framed bliss.)
 
You will occasionally find a stretching device like this at each corner of older paintings. This one has "Feb 13 1883 June 16 1885 ADS" stamped into the metal. You tap on the edge to spread the bars, then tighten the screws. Sorry for the fuzzy image. Painting came in today for restoration.
 

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Wow, that's a neat idea. I like it better than stretcher keys, which can come loose. I wonder if those are still available?
:cool: Rick
 
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