Float Mounting For The First Time

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jwthawkins

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Hawkins Framing
Hi all,

Looking to float mount a page from a music book, as a possible float mount for the first time. The piece is old: a 19th century (possibly earlier, but the client doesn't know. It was found inside his parent's closet when he was emptying the home), and he's chosen a matboard backing, but nothing in the front except for the glass. It's somewhat heavy, but I've no idea what it's made out of.

I suggested float mounting, but have never done it before. I don't know what the paper is made from, but am a little worried about adhesive choices. Any suggestions? I usually use Linen tape and t-hinges for my all my stuff, but am open to non-destructive means. He did say that the piece is "for presentation not conservation", but still, basically don't do hugely harmful things to it when you stick it down.

Attached are some pictures.

Otherwise, the other option is the mount it directly to the matboard and use spacers. I like the idea of float mounting, but again, totally new to this.

Any help you could provide on whether or not to float mount would be great!
 
Ooops, here they are.
 

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These were a hot item to frame in the 80s. They are pages from liturgical choir books, some of which are on real parchment. Most were from European monasteries.
 
Never use linen tape for any hinges. Practice with the items David shows in his post. Practice on variety of paper, thin, thick (never on anything of value). For things of no value, I use water activated paper tape.

Search for 'hedgehog mount' and practice that as well on blank paper pieces.

If you are using glass, you do need to use spacers.
 
Determine first if this is parchment or not.
It reacts wildly to humidity and wet hinges can cause localized cockling.
Polyester sheet encapsulation is a very safe way to help preserve and display documents.
 
You could float mount this using 1/8” square rare earth (neodymium) magnets. One pair in each corner is usually sufficient to support the sheet. Is there another image on the back side? If so, you could use the magnet mount with recto-verso glazing.

Caveat: If the sheet is deteriorated and too weak to support its own weight, then any sort of point-mounting method should be avoided.
 
Jim Miller said:
You could float mount this using 1/8” square rare earth (neodymium) magnets. One pair in each corner is usually sufficient to support the sheet. Is there another image on the back side? If so, you could use the magnet mount with recto-verso glazing.

Caveat: If the sheet is deteriorated and too weak to support its own weight, then any sort of point-mounting method should be avoided.
Click to expand...
Yes, there's another page on the backside, but the client only wants to show the pictured side.
 
Yes, that is the product along with specific double sided tape and instructions on how to.
You may be able to get all that on the Talas site. Search for encapsulation there and here on the G.
Lots of information available.
 
jwthawkins said:
Yes, there's another page on the backside, but the client only wants to show the pictured side.
Click to expand...
Even if the customer doesn't specifically ask for recto-verso framing, magnet mounting could be among the least-invasive, easiest, and cheapest methods, with or without glazing on the verso.

This is the appearance of one corner magnet mounted:
Photo 23-Magnet On Glass Over Doc LoRes.webp


When using magnets to mount, it's a good idea to isolate the metal from the item by gluing on tiny slips of proper paper:
Photo22-Paper square on magnet.webp


Here's an edge view of recto-verso magnet mounting. However, the verso magnets could just as well be glued to a backing board.
Photo 24-MagMnt-Top Edge-LoRes.webp
 
wpfay said:
Yes, that is the product along with specific double sided tape and instructions on how to.
You may be able to get all that on the Talas site. Search for encapsulation there and here on the G.
Lots of information available.
Click to expand...
Does anyone know of a supplier in Canada of this stuff? Shipping is looking like $73.60 from Talas. Jeeeeezus.
 
jwthawkins said:
I believe it's parchment. Would I buy something like this for polyester sheet encapsulation?
Click to expand...
You say you "believe it's parchment", but do you know or opine this? Parchment isn't simply a type of paper as it's made from chemically treated animal skins which under magnification reveal hair follicle patterns, veining, & natural scars, &, has already been stated, is extremely sensitive to moisture as well as susceptible to biological damage (as all skins are). In this, I'm not trying to convince you one way or another. It's your call, just do it from a foundation of knowledge as opposed to belief.
 
Check out the free articles on hinging the frametek.com web pages. If you use two or more magnets or two or more "tight" hinges you will probably find that the art will buckle between the attachment points as both the art and backing will expand/contract at different rates due to changes in humidity. Read the article on "tape sealing" as a way to slow down rapid changes in humidity in the frame cavity as well as stoping intrusion of dust and critters.
 
glamorsidhe said:
You say you "believe it's parchment", but do you know or opine this? Parchment isn't simply a type of paper as it's made from chemically treated animal skins which under magnification reveal hair follicle patterns, veining, & natural scars, &, has already been stated, is extremely sensitive to moisture as well as susceptible to biological damage (as all skins are). In this, I'm not trying to convince you one way or another. It's your call, just do it from a foundation of knowledge as opposed to belief.
Click to expand...
I will confirm with the client if it is, in fact, parchment.
 
Greg Fremstad said:
Check out the free articles on hinging the frametek.com web pages. If you use two or more magnets or two or more "tight" hinges you will probably find that the art will buckle between the attachment points as both the art and backing will expand/contract at different rates due to changes in humidity. Read the article on "tape sealing" as a way to slow down rapid changes in humidity in the frame cavity as well as stoping intrusion of dust and critters.
Click to expand...
I do have some frame sealing tape that I've yet to try! Will read on and put it to the test.
 
wpfay said:
A quick google search revealed this

Mylar and Polyester Film - Delta Art

Mylar and Polyester Film
www.deltaart.ca www.deltaart.ca
Click to expand...
I've seen that drafting film that has a satin or matte finish on one side, but I never thought about using it for encapsulation.
I imagine this would be a good solution for people who might be put off by the shiny finish of regular Mylar. I have used Invisimount before, but it made of a different material, and is a little bit "stretchy" compared with Mylar (Melinex).
:cool: Rick
 
The way it's looks in the photos suggests it's institutional wood pulp stock. This type of stuff deteriorates
quite badly with age and gets very fragile. For this reason I would avoid hinging as the paper surface can
delaminate. Encapsulation is the way to go. 😉
 
Prospero said:
The way it's looks in the photos suggests it's institutional wood pulp stock. This type of stuff deteriorates
quite badly with age and gets very fragile. For this reason I would avoid hinging as the paper surface can
delaminate. Encapsulation is the way to go. 😉
Click to expand...
Prospero, like yourself, from what I could discern from said photos, the material itself looked more like old paper rather than legitimate parchment, but since my handling of the latter has been restricted solely to today's plasticized-cotton-cellulose "vellum-parchment" rather than its original yesteryear-version (not so with old wood-pulp-paper crumblings!), I didna offer any opinion on the matter --- my preference being commenting on what I know rather than what I opine. (However, I've educated myself off the Web for how real parchment was once written upon, errors "erased/scratched off", etc, as well as how the genuine material actually appears-in-closeup.)
 
Prospero said:
The way it's looks in the photos suggests it's institutional wood pulp stock. This type of stuff deteriorates
quite badly with age and gets very fragile. For this reason I would avoid hinging as the paper surface can
delaminate. Encapsulation is the way to go. 😉
Click to expand...
Fantastic. Thank you!
 
glamorsidhe said:
"Grasshopper", you'd make a fairly decent student as you're open to learning (from my perspective, anyone who asks questions shouldn't be closed off to new learnings . . . .).
Click to expand...
Thank you. I've been at this for not very long and it turns out there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. ;)
 
Prospero said:
The way it's looks in the photos suggests it's institutional wood pulp stock. This type of stuff deteriorates
quite badly with age and gets very fragile. For this reason I would avoid hinging as the paper surface can
delaminate. Encapsulation is the way to go. 😉
Click to expand...
I've ordered some encapsulating material. My thought was to use ATG tape to secure the encapsulated page to matboard, then back it with foamcore before packaging it with glass in the front of the frame. Would that be the right approach?
 
jwthawkins said:
I've ordered some encapsulating material. My thought was to use ATG tape to secure the encapsulated page to matboard, then back it with foamcore before packaging it with glass in the front of the frame. Would that be the right approach?
Click to expand...
You will want to opt for a stronger tape with a carrier in it rather than ATG which is 100% adhesive. I've been using 3m-415 on most of my projects involving mylar.
 
Yes, ATG is not a good adhesive for clear polyester film, because it flows and fails over time; its bond cannot withstand any sort of stress.

3M #415 is a very good tape for clear film mounts, and so is a high-quality fillet tape. However, avoid cheap fillet tapes; some of them aren't much better than ATG. Be sure to buy tapes that have a polyester ribbon and good acrylic adhesive on both sides.

Also, I still have some more rolls of 3M#889 (and #888 too) for good prices, listed April 4th in the For Sale section.
 
jwthawkins said:
... secure the encapsulated page to matboard, then back it with foamcore... Would that be the right approach?
Click to expand...
Yes, the method you described would be suitable, except for the ATG tape, as pointed out in other posts. Also, you can avoid having to attach the encapsulation to the backing board if you trim the clear film mounting sheets to fit the size of the frame.
 
A big *thing* in framing is reversibility. If you use ATG tape or any other double-sided tape and wanted
to remove the piece from the backer later, how would you do it? Prise it off with a palette knife? That risks
damage. Better to put tabs of something like P-90 tape on it. That is reversible (in theory) but in practice you
could just slice it though the tape with a knife with no stress on the encapsulated piece.

A fine point but good practice. 😉
 
Prospero said:
If you use ATG tape or any other double-sided tape and wanted
to remove the piece from the backer later, how would you do it?
Click to expand...
An encapsulation mount is completely and easily reversible, with no adhesives in direct contact.

It involves two sheets of clear film held together by strips of double-sided tape all around the perimeter of the paper item, about 1/8" to 1/4" away from its edges.

Reversibility is accomplished by separating the taped clear film sheets or cutting away one edge, so the paper can be slipped out.
 
Jim Miller said:
Reversibility is accomplished by separating the taped clear film sheets or cutting away one edge, so the paper can be slipped out.
Click to expand...
Right, because there is a small gap between the physical edges of the item and the strips of double-sided polyester tape, there is always a way to carefully free the item from the encapsulation.
:cool: Rick
 
Jim Miller said:
An encapsulation mount is completely and easily reversible, with no adhesives in direct contact.

It involves two sheets of clear film held together by strips of double-sided tape all around the perimeter of the paper item, about 1/8" to 1/4" away from its edges.

Reversibility is accomplished by separating the taped clear film sheets or cutting away one edge, so the paper can be slipped out.
Click to expand...

I meant the removing the complete encapsulated item from the backing board. 😏
 
Prospero said:
I meant the removing the complete encapsulated item from the backing board. 😏
Click to expand...
But all you could damage when doing that is the mounting surface and the back sheet of melinex, it would just peel off, you wouldn’t even touch the artwork. If there was any risk of damage to that, you could just remove it first.
 
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Hmm, question on this. The film I ordered: https://www.deltaart.ca/product/00/02GXK03MM2436/Grafix-Drafting-Film-Double-Matt-.003-24-X-36 Grafix Drafting Film Double Matt .003 24" X 36" - Delta Art

Seems to contain one translucent side and one white side... They don't seem to pry apart to give the 'clear' finish I was expecting with mylar. It appears to render the thing that's underneath it almost invisible. Does anyone have any useful videos or tutorial on using the stuff in this way? Everything else I'm finding online doesn't appear to use it as an encapsulating material.
 
It’s best to buy “clear archival polyester rolls”, because the curve of the roll is used to apply slight but useful pressure.

This stuff

www.talasonline.com

Mylar Film Rolls

DescriptionAn archival pure polyester film in its uncoated, clear state such as Hostaphan 43SM or Melinex 516 are used throughout our product line. The film is used for window matting, covering books, encapsulating documents, interleaving, covering work surfaces and vacuum table covers as well...
www.talasonline.com www.talasonline.com

Google what’s in inverted commas above rather than mylar or melinex if you want to find it more local.
 
RoboFramer said:
It’s best to buy “clear archival polyester rolls”, because the curve of the roll is used to apply slight but useful pressure.

This stuff

www.talasonline.com

Mylar Film Rolls

DescriptionAn archival pure polyester film in its uncoated, clear state such as Hostaphan 43SM or Melinex 516 are used throughout our product line. The film is used for window matting, covering books, encapsulating documents, interleaving, covering work surfaces and vacuum table covers as well...
www.talasonline.com www.talasonline.com

Google what’s in inverted commas above rather than mylar or melinex if you want to find it more local.
Click to expand...
I see the Talas stuff. That's gonna cost me $200 to get shipped from the States. o_O Is "DuraLar" the same thing?

 
A question on this: Is it possible to encapsulate an item, then float mount it after the fact? Just trying to see if the edges would begin to curl downward once it's been framed, as they would be unsupported, as I'd be cutting about 1/2" of all sides of the foamcore that would support the piece.
 
It’s possible but it wouldn’t look too good, you’d see the edges of the film and the DS tape around.

If you were to float mount but not raise it from the mounting board then a mat would cover the film’s edges/DS tape.

Just use the hedgehog method, mount to mat board not much smaller than the paper at all, then fix to foam board.
 
RoboFramer said:
It’s possible but it wouldn’t look too good, you’d see the edges of the film and the DS tape around.

If you were to float mount but not raise it from the mounting board then a mat would cover the film’s edges/DS tape.

Just use the hedgehog method, mount to mat board not much smaller than the paper at all, then fix to foam board.
Click to expand...
You mentioned in a previous post I found about adapting the method of hedgehog mounting and not using gummed tape. What would you suggest as an alternative?
 
Re-reading the thread there’s been some doubt cast, but assuming the paper or whatever it is can take wet adhesive, I would use wheat starch paste and wet-torn Japanese tissue hinges, but that is something that is a bit of an art and needs a lot of practice.

You said it was your own suggestion to float mount it. Showing the edges gives many problems, and then raising it as well gives even more.

Just mat it, then you can either encapsulate or overlay and still show the edges but not raise it, or cover the edges and use one of many non-adhesive methods.
 
RoboFramer said:
Re-reading the thread there’s been some doubt cast, but assuming the paper or whatever it is can take wet adhesive, I would use wheat starch paste and wet-torn Japanese tissue hinges, but that is something that is a bit of an art and needs a lot of practice.

You said it was your own suggestion to float mount it. Showing the edges gives many problems, and then raising it as well gives even more.

Just mat it, then you can either encapsulate or overlay and still show the edges but not raise it, or cover the edges and use one of many non-adhesive methods.
Click to expand...
Right, I did suggest that to the client. He said he preferred not to mat it, as he still wanted those characterful edges to show... So, I could approach the subject with him again and suggest that we mat it.
 
RoboFramer said:
OK, but like I said, you can still show those edges if you use encapsulation or overlay, the mat would only cover the DS tape.
Click to expand...
So you'd make the edge of the encapsulating material about 1/8" bigger than the piece on all sides, then mat over the top of those edges?
 
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