flatening a watercolor

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glitch

True Grumbler
Joined
May 26, 2003
Posts
65
Loc
Peoria, IL
first off, i am new to the grumble, so i will say "hi, all"

ok, i have gone back and read past posts about watercolor cockling issues.

I am an employed framer, which basically means i have no say in dealing with the customer. i tried to explain that it was like that and this is the excepted and standard look in these original art situations. the customer did not understand, and the owner refuses to allow any customer to leave dissatisfied (even when they are a retailer simple selling the piece). i am to somehow to reframe (originally framed by me but she hates the "shadows") a watercolor that was brought in with existing cockling. the piece is a metal frame with one white mat. so as not to damage the piece i used nonadhesive mounting technique. i managed really minor cockling effect to show, but the customer still was not happy. the customer suggests adding more pressure, but the package is filled as it is (no springclips necessary).

i have read about the blotting the back technique, but i am hesitant to do that

i have read about floating the mat over to reduce the harshness of the cockling, which though i like the sound of that, i doubt the customer will be happy with it (she really is ridiculously picky)

any other suggestions of which i have not read?

i am pondering the customer's request to add pressure by using a material that will not bow as backer, any concerns about this, or suggestions?

i am not YET certified. i have 3 years framing experience and go to seminars and workshops, but still know i have a lot to learn.....please, HELP!

p.s. sorry if my capitalization issues drive anyone nuts :rolleyes:
 
So ... there you are, between a rock and a hard place and the stress has caused you to start typing like e. e. cummings.

You did the right thing and it didn't make anyone happy.

Additional pressure in the framing package isn't going to help.

You could suggest that the customer take the piece to a paper conservator to be flattened.

Discuss with your boss the ramifications of mechanically trying to flatten the piece. Point out that a waiver signed by the customer might help to avert a law suit for damages.

Most importantly - address this issue with the customer the next time a similar piece appears on your design counter. That's the time to explain what you can and cannot do so that expectations may be adjusted accordingly.

Kit

PS Welcome to the Grumble. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
 
Hi Glitch: I am also new to the Grumbler. I can relate to your problem with watercolors. I do all the framing for several watercolor artists in my area. It is really up to the artist to flatten the piece. Some of them are pretty good and some are not so good. However, by the very nature of watercolor paper, it will never lay completely flat. Most of what I do is floated on the back mat since the artists I work with like to have the deckled edge showing. I explain the nature of the piece to my customers and I have not had any one who did not understand. I am assuming the piece is an original. Perhaps your customer can take the piece back to the artist she purchased it from and have it flattened.

Sharon
 
Hi glitch. Welcome to The Grumble.

Explain everything to the customer (it sounds like you've already tried, and then get her permission to vacuum mount or dry mount the watercolor. Gasp!

If artists would learn how to properly stretch watercolor paper, framers wouldn't be having these problems. Successfully stretching watercolor paper is not that difficult. I have done it. It's actually fun to prepare the paper. Sorry, just venting about one of my pet peeves.

Wow, two new Grumblers on one thread. Welcome, Sharon.

[ 05-27-2003, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: Jana ]
 
thanks for your input

i think it's sweet i type like e.e. cummings....i always type like this, though, (keep in mind i am very good at english and am university educated....i just type like this
) and surprisingly i am not as stressed as one might think....i chose picture framing over interior design (which i have a degree in) because i like creative projects that take minutes/hours not weeks/years and i like the low stress factor, at least at my work place. i could get paid little for a high stress job, or little for a low stress job....you decide....they are interlaced though, and i really do love both

i did make MOST everyone happy, everyone i work with knows i am like their framing god....even my boss knows i could have done nothing (she has been in business for nearly twice the time i have been alive...(40 years)....her response was "i really am sorry, brandon" .....*growl* ;) ...but like i said, she cannot let customers go unhappy, and i, for one, rarely have interaction with customers. (and i like it that way :D )

conservator isn't really an option here locally...same as appraisals.....this is well, a four-horse town type area....just about everyone's heard of peoria, because of vaude-ville, but it is really conservative and well....not very art oriented (being nice), so there is no one here that does that (really good market opportunity if anyone is interested)

this leads me onto a somewhat off topic grumble, and maybe i will get flamed for this, but i really would like some different view points. i try to stay up on the framing trends, but in this area they simply do not fly....example: i know in most places 3 inches is basically the minimum amount of mat....4+ is more excepted....here i have trouble pushing for 2 (yes inches), only the framings i do up for retail sale in the storefront am i able to sometimes get away with a 4-6 in. mat, or for that matter creative cuts, art paper reveals, etc.

price is the other issue, we are basically the only non-corporate framing place left in town. even though we get a lot of the "well-off" customers, as well as your average joe....very few are willing to spend much money on framing, so, yeah....i have to make some reservations. i don't damage people's prints or objects i'm framing by taking shortcuts or anything like that, but 3 or more mats are rare, floats, sinks, etc. are even more rare. shadowboxes are rare, though that may in part due to the low-creative conservative atmosphere of the area. rarely do i get a piece worth any money, so very rarely do i use alphrag as backer. it is just too expensive for my customers for mere posters. alot of people on here are talking about items coming in that aren't framed well. everyone gets that, but a few say they have never had anything come in that was framed well. people in my area are known to change the color of mats within 2 years (not whole package...just the mats, back to that cheap thing) so i get back pieces i have done all the time....sure would like to think i accept my own framing. i get back framing from other places too (all around the U.S.) and while some methods might seem unnecessary to me or just annoying to undo....most of the time they haven't directly hurt the picture or item (yes i check for ph etc.). therefore i do not feel it my duty to judge their framing methods (not to mention i rarely know how old the piece is). retail is giving the customer a product they are happy with for the price. there is the matter of a customer not knowing their piece has been harmed (as in some of the stories of cruise ships <and i totally agree with hanging those framers by their private parts, whatever those parts may consist of>), but some of these negative posts seem to be much more harsh than that. i give my customers a safe and honest framing job to the best of my ability at a price they can accept (maybe not like, but accept). if another framer looks down on that, well they are being sort of a snob and in my opinion missing the point of retail. ....sorry for the rant....any opinions (hopefully not all against me) :confused:
 
wow! more replys in the time it took me to do the last rant

again, thank you to everyone who is helping

yes, i did try to explain. i have never had a customer not understand either, but this is the exception (everyone i work with understood me while i was explaining <the first time....i went over it like five> too, and some have very limited framing knowledge). like i said, it isn't even for her, she is selling it....the piece is not done on watercolor paper, it is done on that homemade-type fiber paper stuff so it is really thick and probably intentionally cockled, but she wants this and there is no making her happy otherwise....

drymounting is not an option, because i already went through the reasons i did not do it in the first place. this she understood and reasonably agreed with me.....so she knows all of the reasons it should not be dry mounted.....argh!

i am really starting to think raising the mat up is looking like my best option
 
two more notes....

the watercolor is original, but i think the customer ordered it....don't think it was done locally

kit -
what does your sig say? it looks latin....two years of latin and i have very little to say for it
 
A visit to the Brandywine Museum in southern
Pennsylvania can be quite revealing. Many of
Andrew Wyeth's best known works are on view, there
and the watercolors are not even close to flat.
Perhaps some of these insistant customers and
watercolorists could learn from him.

Hugh
 
I'll second that, Hugh. The Brandywine Museum is a wonderful place. All the Wyeths are represented there: N.C; Andrew; and Jamie. Also Howard Pyle, one of my favorites.

The last time I was there it was mid-December and a chorale was performing PDQ Bach's Christmas carols. Gotta love it!

Kit
 
The Wyeth exhibit in KC a few years back was a highlight not to be forgotten. How else do you know it is an original without a few waves. I'm not a painter but I am good at stretching the paper and even then you will still get a slight wave.

Maybe a small hinge attached at the bad spot and pulled through a slot in the backing board would help.

Glitch at this point, I think your boss should say this is the best we can do and if that doesn't work remove it. Welcome to the grumble!


[ 05-27-2003, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: JPete ]
 
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