FACTS good things

Terry Scidmore CPF

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Jul 5, 2001
Seattle, WA 98168
The FACTS Survey thread seeems to have gone off in the direction of lawsuits. Being probably the biggest PIA detractor of FACTS, I thought that it might be a nice gesture to list what I think are good attributes about the organization - some positive points that can be presented in Atlanta. Perhaps others will join in.

1)Grass roots movement - better to address problems within the industry than have it forced on the industry through outside sources.

2)Primarily volunteer.

3)Good website - easy to navigate, information is easy to read.

4)Financials are in plain view.

5)Committe information, members, contacts are easy to find.

6)Standards or guidelines are MUCH easier to read and understand now than back when we first wrote them, thanks to Nona.

7)Format of standards (the numbering system) makes it easier to direct attention to a specific point than to say "page 235, third paragraph, sentence 9" and diagrams and illustrations are part of the package.

8)Industry information in one place, not just a bit of information being taught in this class, and some information being touted by this manufacturer, and another bit of information in this trade journal.

9)Defining, clarifying, and standardizing commonly used terms in the industry to help us all be on the same page when we talk.

10)Possibility to be multidisciplinary.

Things that I would like to see FACTS do more of:
3.1 Materials and Identification sheets (see 1996/97).

And maybe a FACTS supporter will open up a thread to list problems people have with FACTS - just for balance.
Terry thanks for showing that there is always good things that some how get over looked when things like POTENTIAL law suits get brought up.

In a post by Nona ,I think she brought up two very interesting responses . First she affirmed that "A Lawyer was PRESENT when she and Jim was ginving a class resentation on the DOCUMENT." Not serveing on the Board .But he did give His informed opinion. Furthermore that Lawyer said that almost ANYONE could be sued for just about anything." However with a document like FACTS available you were much more likely to be able to sucessfully defend yourself. (go to "Ever been sued?" here on TFG)

But the most important thing was those key words "IF and MIGHT" .We all worry about being dragged into court after doing our best. However as has been shown in another post here on TFG, that is a very small likely hood ,even without FACTS as well as with it, and there are so much more good to focis on that it seems like a real waste of energy that could be used in making FACTS even better.IMHO
The best thing about FACTS is that it is available to everyone all the time, our customers, framing students, artists, anyone who cares about art. Read the actual guidlines, they are not that hard to work with and the material standards are invaluable. You can tell your customer they can see how you frame by going to the website and if the guy down the street is not framing the same way, that can also be pointed out.

There are some changes I would like to see on the web site to make it even better. For instance years ago I wrote a synopsis because I told Don framers didn’t have time to read all of the documents and they wouldn’t plow through all the language. I did the synopsis of the Guidelines and got his approval to use it in my classes.
I would like the synopsis put on the web site in order to make the basic guidelines easier to understand. (It was updated by Rick)

I would like links to the manufactures websites that I could use to find out which of their products meet preservation standards, such as the PPMMB-2000 for mat, mount and back boards. Wouldn’t it be nice to have one for tapes and adhesives and filler board?

I would like a page that explains that FRM-2000 is the actual document for the full guidelines for framing art on paper, would be nice to have one for canvas also and that PMMB-2000 one is for material standards. Now the way they are listed, it’s hard to find the most important documents.

I would like to know the manufactures that support FACTS enough to put out a donation yearly to keep it on the web and in existence. I would certainly support them.

I would like a list of the framers who support FACTS through a donation, again because they care about standards. It would be a place customers could be referred and whenever someone needs a framer from another area, it would be a place to go to find one who does care.

I would like a page that lists the board of trustees and the committee chairs so if I want to participate or ask a question I can have an idea where to go. It would be nice to know the framers in this industry who care enough to put out extra time and effort for us all by chairing the various committees. People like Ellen Collins, Jerry Vandergriff, Anne Hast, Jim Miller, Ron Eggers, Wally Faye, William Parker, Rick Bergeron and many others.

Annual FACTS Meeting DECOR EXPO, Sept 12th, room C-211 at 8:00am. You can meet the board of trustees, the committee chairs and find out who we are and where we are going. Might be a good time to ask for what you want, I plan to.

Nona Powers, CPF
The biggest problem with FACTS is that it is mostly volunteer (self included). This means that things get done around other things, and therefore move slower than would be optimum. On the other hand, this sort of work really needs to be done by Real Framers, and I am not sure we could hire that, even if we had the money, which we don't.
Because this is a thread about the positives, Ellen, maybe we should rephrase this to read:

1)The biggest plus about FACTS is that it is mostly volunteer, which means that the people involved are there because it means something to them.

2)The volunteers are mostly framers, so we have the best perspective on what we are trying to do for our own industry.

OK with you, Ellen?
Terry : not to be redudant ,But I think the best Positive feature is exactly what You ,Ellen and Nona have said ;
"The biggest plus about FACTS is that it is mostly volunteer"and furthermore "The volunteers are mostly framers".

Both of which are exactly what Nona and attorneys say the court would need to decide if a given Framer had done their best.

I can't think of a better guide to doing something right then following a set of Guidelines of your peers and exparts in your field.
It might be nice for you all to know that your aren't the only ones struggling with standards.



These link you to the Abbey Newsletter summaries of what ANSI/ISO are up to. Like many of you all, I totally appreciate the Readers Digest version.

This is why I maintain close relations with by brainiac brethren in the archival conservation community. In return, when they want to know how to remove a stubborn stain, they know who to come to :D

H E L L O Facts supporters!! Where are you?

Buddy, Nona, and Ellen, thanks for your excellent posts. (Ellen, again, I hope that it was ok to rephrase in a positive note?)

Rebecca, thanks for reminding us that everyone struggles with issues in their industry.

What about things such as these points?

1)An opportunity to learn more about your craft and industry, in depth, through discussions with other interested people who share your interests and concerns - this applies to the Grumble and PPFA, too!

2)An opportunity to do something about issues that you care about.

3)An appreciation of the people who started FACTS - or PPFA - or the Grumble - or any other organization - for the hardwork and dedication that it takes to get something going.

Sooo - two, four , six, eight,
time to post to substantiate
one, three, seven, nine,
FACTS good points - I can't make this rhyme???
Allow me:

Two, four, six, eight
FACTS guidlines are really great
Ten, twelve, fourteen, sixteen
Hope this doesn't get really mean
H E L L O Facts supporters!! Where are you?
Sorry, Terry. I understood that this was a thread for detractors to list positive things about FACTS and that you wanted another thread for FACTS supporters to list negative things.

Then, another detractor started a thread of negative things and asked supporters not to post to it.

I got confused, and a little desperate, and started still another thread. That one's open to just about anybody, as long as they don't mention squirrels.
I like volunteers.
Some FACTStors are volunteers.
Volunteers are nice.
Some volunteers for FACTS are nice and
I like them.


This was supposed to be a positive thread, and it went sideways, I guess.

One more good thing is that during all of the barrage about FACTS, Nona has responded in a positive manner, posted updated information not available on the website, suggested improvements that she would like to see, and tried to address issues that people brought up.

Great job, Nona!
You all warm my heart, just look at all the fuss over FACTS. I love reading the feedback and it's good to see the concerns, many of which I share. The basic document is a very good thing and very good for framers, thanks to all for the help keeping it out there. Come to the meeting in Atlanta, Sunday morning, 8:00 room C-211 World Coingress Center. The board will be there and we can all voice our concerns and support.

Nona Powers, CPF