EZ Throw Away or Give Away

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Dancinbaer

Dancinbaer

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Apr 26, 2002
Posts
1,267
Loc
De Pere, WI
I said in another thread I have a Love/ Hate relationship with my Attach EZ. Well, I have two jerseys to get done and I hate the thing. After wasting a dozen fastners I got two in. Then wasted a couple dozen more. The problem is when I stick the needle through, the fastners don't feed. I had to push on the stick of fastners for them to advance. Even if I pull the trigger without going through the jersey they don't feed. I've wasted way more time fighting with the thing. So it's back to needle and thread for me.

Has anyone had to replace their Attach EZ guns? Do they "wear out"? I bought this not long after they came out.

Dancin' "Frustrated" Baer
 
The question that comes to mind first Denny, is: "WHO did you buy the kit from?" If you got it other than from Pat..... then I'd smell a rat.

We have a gun that was NOT one of Pat's. We loaned it to a friend/framer.... and she broke it.... THEN she REPLACED it with another KNOCK OFF! :eek:.... We didn't want the first one back. We have REAL ones....and they don't give us a moment of grief.
 
This was bought from Pat. I built a case to store them in. This was before the nice black case was available. Before I put it away after last use it had worked fine. I'm a lonewolf shop so I know nobody else used it. I've just came to expect that sometimes it works...sometimes not. Just when I NEED it to work, it's not. So.....well....sew.

I see a replacement is only $25.00 plus shipping but I can't wait for however long to get it. And I don't do jerseys that often.
 
We have wore one out before and Pat was very good about getting a replacement to us, fast and at a reasonable price. GIve her a call and she will take care of you.
 
Hi Denny,

I have to tell you I have the same love/hate relationship with mine as well. I have reread the instruction sheet over and over trying to see if I've missed a helpful hint. Some of the jersey material just won't seem to let the attachments through. Other projects are but a dream when using the gun. I tried to talk with Pat at the Baltimore show but she was so busy I couldn't even get her attention.

I have come to the conclusion if the jersey material is a of a "rubbery" feel that is when I have problems. If you read this Pat, please let us know some tricks of the trade for this otherwise great tool.

Lori
 
These threads are great examples of how our industry is changing

I remember when this tool first appeared, we had many framers decry it because of it's non-CP framing. Remember the languishing about these poly tabs ruining these pricelss heirlooms? That a true framer would never use such inappropriate tools?

Now, framers are mad because they can't make the tool work as easy as they would like

We use ours with very few problems; somethings are just a breeze

Yet, I still can't figure out how to post a photo on the grumble

Perhaps i should blame the grumble for that
 
The auto advance has never worked well on mine from the get go. It was purchased from Pat at the point she had affiliation with Fletcher. That said, any other problem I've had with it has been operator error.
The problem you may be facing Denny is that the substrate and the Jersey are collectively too thick. This can be especially trying if you are using the Micro gun.
I did 6 jerseys in early December and had no problems. They were a mix of "collectible" jerseys and game jerseys and I did have to switch back and forth between guns using longer tags in some instances.
 
I have found that if I use the awl that comes with it, and poke the holes in advance with that - through the backing - the tool works much better. Before doing this, I broke multiple needles. Yesterday I attached a teddy bear in less than 5 minutes.

Don't throw it away! Don't give it away! Get yo'sef another gun and give it another whack.
 
We've used the same type of gun ( a little larger) for over 30 years for pricing. In all that time, I don't know that we've ever worn one out. The needles get dull, of course, and need changing but that's about it. When we have trouble with the clip not advancing, it's ususally because we aren't depressing the handle completely. Sometimes we blow a little compressed air in the mechanism to clear out any dust, but that's about it.
 
Pat called me immediately after I posted and sent her a message. Spent a little time one on one. She solved the problem of the fasteners not feeding. Seems there is a right and wrong way to feed the strip into the gun....who would have thunk? Turned the strip around a walla...it works. I invested in her video. We will all review her demonstration on how to use the gun.
 
Luv or hate?

Depends - the small micro gun works like a dream - the larger one is another matter - I am able to get the needle all the way through and shoot the fastener but the fastener does not open on the other side - If I use another size longer fastener, then the fabric sags.

Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong? :shrug:
 
I've had problems too...I've found that I'm a bit quick on the trigger. It seems to work better for me when I do everything in slow motion. Insert the needle through the item being mounted and the mount board, and make sure it's come all the way through...then slowly squeeze the trigger...hold the trigger in the full-squeeze position for a moment or two...then slooooowwwwwly release the trigger....then slowwwwwwwly withdraw the needle.

Seems to work better.
 
hangupsgallery said:
Seems there is a right and wrong way to feed the strip into the gun....who would have thunk? Turned the strip around a walla...it works.
Click to expand...

Can you (or Pat) elaborate on this? I didn't know there was a right and wrong way to feed the strip. I can't tell one end from the other.
 
Mine is broken - a few months after buying it.

I squeezed the trigger, very slowly as recommended... then the piston which pushes the tab BENT and curved away. I don't think I ever got it to work since the moment I bought it to the moment it broke. It seems some of you have had better experiences.
 
Chris- As a few of the others have said, Pat is a wonderful and patient woman Who takes great pride in her products and both stands behind them and is generous with support. I advise you to get in touch with her and check her out at the shows.
 
Bogframe said:
Chris- As a few of the others have said, Pat is a wonderful and patient woman Who takes great pride in her products and both stands behind them and is generous with support. I advise you to get in touch with her and check her out at the shows.
Click to expand...


That's a good idea. It was just frustrating working late one night on a Jersey, due the next day, and that piston bent itself.
 
Ok, I've had time to simmer down, I guess I'll order a new gun. Actually, I spent over two hours sewing one jersey. My fat fingers are not made to handle threads and needles.

I did try feeding the fastners from either end, tried a fresh rack of fastners, even replaced the needle. It appears when I load the fastners into the gun, the first fastner wants to turn or twist before it gets all the way in to position. I've tried pushing down on the rack while pulling the trigger, pulling the rack from the bottom while pulling the trigger both without even poking into anything. It seems the fastners just aren't getting into position for the pin to push it through the needle.:shrug:

Guess I'll order a new gun and for now sew the second jersey. I have a third jersey on hold. Hopefully I'll get the new gun (and it works) before I start the third.

Thanks for the comments,
 
surferbill said:
. Maybe I'll buy the video and give it to my employees to watch.
Click to expand...
I highly recommend that for everyone. I used to have trouble with one in another shop. Quit using it altogether.

I bought a new one from Pat last year, watched the video a couple of times, and have had no trouble since. It wasn't the gun...it was me, and learning "the technique". There is one.
 
Just the least bit curious...Is there any major difference beteen these guns,and the ones used to put tags on merchandise? Other than the fastener lengths(bet they`d fit thru the tagger`s needle end),the TOOL looks the same to me.Just wondering ,because if the needles(yes there is a fine and reg in these as well) are the same gauges,New inexpensive replacements can be had.I use a fine gauge tagging gun to apply tags to 3-d art work.I dropped the thing on a hardwood floor...needle first,and it broke.I found a on-line seller and replaced the needle for less than five bucks.Maybe an alternative,I suppose. L.R.
 
Luddite,
I was under the impression they worked on the same principle but Attach EZ was designed for framing use. But looking at a couple websites that sell the guns, they look the same to me. Pricing varies. Maybe someone can explain the difference, if any.
 
Luddite said:
Just the least bit curious...Is there any major difference beteen these guns,and the ones used to put tags on merchandise? Other than the fastener lengths(bet they`d fit thru the tagger`s needle end),the TOOL looks the same to me.Just wondering ,because if the needles(yes there is a fine and reg in these as well) are the same gauges,New inexpensive replacements can be had.I use a fine gauge tagging gun to apply tags to 3-d art work.I dropped the thing on a hardwood floor...needle first,and it broke.I found a on-line seller and replaced the needle for less than five bucks.Maybe an alternative,I suppose. L.R.
Click to expand...

Dancinbaer said:
Luddite,
I was under the impression they worked on the same principle but Attach EZ was designed for framing use. But looking at a couple websites that sell the guns, they look the same to me. Pricing varies. Maybe someone can explain the difference, if any.
Click to expand...

And questions like these got some of us in trouble with the "gurus" on this forum when the EZee was introduced!! It seemed that anyone who had questions or doubts about the product or its attaching devices and their strength and length of life got hacked by those who didn't have the answers but also didn't have the patience or the open mind to wait to see if anyone else did. The tagging guns themselves have been around far longer than this attaching kit so let's put the horse before the cart and not the other way around. This marketer simply took an already existing tool and came up with an innovative way to use it for something other than tagging clothes and I applaud her for that. I have never seen any credit given in this direction for having the tools already available and the general concept already in place to venture forward with another facet of using the tools though.

The tools themselves were the exact same as the Avery Dennison Microtach gun (dark red gun) and the Swiftach gun (if memory serves me correctly) which could be bought for less than half the price of the guns in the kit direct from an Avery dealer. The attaching T's were also available at a about the same prices but for many thousand more per box than was sold in the kit. That was all OK by me, as long as we got the word out that there was also an alternative to buying them at a much higher price in this kit. My questions were directed at the strength of the nylon T's that were used for attaching. I called Avery Dennison and got them to mail me some samples of the exact T's that were in the kit and they were so much stronger than what I considered safe to use for delicate fabrics that I couldn't imagine how, in the case of a disasterous drop or anything else happening to the mounted work, that the T's would break before the fabric would tear. That was my personal opinion then and it is still my personal opinion now.

The guns were/are the best on the market in my opinion. Avery Dennison makes top quality tagging guns and is a leader in their field. Regarding the "knockoffs" that were referred to earlier in this thread. I checked out the mounting guns sold by UMS and they are also made by Avery Dennison, both the pistol grip (which is the identical Microtach gun) and the scissor grip gun (which is the exact same Swiftach model only in scissor grip instead of pistol grip) and use the same tags that all other Avery guns of the same models use.

You can use this advice as you wish as it makes no difference to me if anyone agrees or disagrees with the truth of the matter. It doesn't degrade the truth one bit. There are those who would argue against all that I have stated here but that is what a public forum is used for, eh???

Those of you who don't care to purchase these products individually can buy the kit and save your time for something more enjoyable to do. For those of you who don't know how to find the threads, wooden handled stitcher that is in this kit, and the other little bells and whistles individually, it is a fine package for you. If you want to do a little leg work and know how to use Google and want to save probably half the cost of the EZee kit, you also have some latitude to work with.

I am not posting this with the intention of trying to run the EZee company out of business nor am I trying to destroy the lady's reputation who came up with this idea. I am convinced that, for heavy jerseys and the like and some other forms of mounting, these are a good alternative to the more conventional methods used for mounting. But these are the facts as I found them when searching for some answers that the marketer refused to give me. I emailed her and posted the questions numerous times on this forum to no avail. I am still wondering about the strength of the nylon T's and how long they will last inside a shadowbox as they were originally produced for very short term use as an attaching method for price tags on merchandise with little concern about the shear strength or long term degradation of the T's.
 
"Find a niche and fill it." Pat has done that admirably and I was really glad to find her when I did and get my AttachEZ kit. No one else has packaged these tools together with such detailed instructions on "how to do" and "what to use".

It would have taken me a couple of years to put this sort of stuff together. So for me, it was worth the price.

These items may be available individually elsewhere and for less money, but supporting Pat is a bit like supporting your local small independent framer, eh?
 
I thank you all for your wonderful notes of support. I guess it's time I jumped in with some facts that Framerguy has put out there that need some clarification.

He is right about MicroTach being Avery Dennison's tool, but what he does not mention is that I was one of the first to bring the Micro tool on to the market. It was brand new when I came up with the idea of using the fine fabric tool to mount fabric art. Avery really didn't have a customer for this tool yet and they sent me a sample to see if I could find a way to use it. I very quickly realized how beneficial it would be to have a tool that dispensed fasteners so tiny that they just looked like a stitch.

Since Avery Dennison's name was right on the box and the side of the tool, it was no secret as to where the tools came from. For some reason Framerguy has made it a mission to make the framing world believe that I have tried to deceived you in some way.

I have been working directly with Avery Dennison since the inception of Attach-EZ. That has also been no secret. Another thing that FG does not seem to grasp is that these tools were not made for the application in which we framers are using them, and the reason that they work is "because" I have developed ways to use the tools so that they can be adapted for framing...and won't be broken in the process. I have spent thousands of dollars on my DVD's to make it easier for the framers to learn to use the tools, and every other part of the kits, and will not apologize for the cost. In my estimation, it is no different than any other piece of equipment that a shop purchases to help them in their framing business.

I do have a question for Framerguy; Have you ever had one of my kits, seen my demonstrations, or watched my DVD? It certainly doesn't sound like it, or you would know that to put everything that you get in one of my kits together and know how to use it would cost far more than it cost to buy a kit. If you only knew how many shops I have worked with who purchased one of those cheaper, look-a-likes, with no instructions. Most of them call trying to figure out why the tools don't work, or because they have already broken the tools, and soon find that they do work....if they are used correctly.

For anyone who is having problems with using their tools, please call me. I will be happy to help you. 1-800-527-1521.
 
j Paul said:
Agree with that Val, in the beginning I and my wife broke needles. After some experience and advice from Pat on what we were doing wrong, we haven't broken a needle in over a year.
Click to expand...

And you won't until you have forgotten where the spares are and a "need this tomorrow morning or I die" job comes in 20 mins before closing time. ;)
 
The tagging guns themselves are mostly similar in function, except perhaps for the really cheap knock-offs (I'm guessing, since I've never tried one of those).

As verified by several comments in this thread, The magic of Attach EZ is not the tools, but Pat's instructions about how to use them.

Whatever money you could save on cheaper tools, that savings would evaporate quickly unless you were able to figure out how to make them work for you consistently, easily, and without fail. Pat's instructions serve that purpose.

That's what makes Attach EZ worth the price.
 
TGFU, The only tool that it makes a difference as to how you load the clip is the Micro tool. There is a long end and a short end on the Micro fastener clips. The long end always goes into the tool first. If you insert the clip upside down it will not advance.

It makes no difference with the Fine Fab. tools. The clips are the same on both ends.
 
Bob Carter said:
These threads are great examples of how our industry is changing

I remember when this tool first appeared, we had many framers decry it because of it's non-CP framing. Remember the languishing about these poly tabs ruining these pricelss heirlooms? That a true framer would never use such inappropriate tools?

Now, framers are mad because they can't make the tool work as easy as they would like

We use ours with very few problems; somethings are just a breeze

Yet, I still can't figure out how to post a photo on the grumble

Perhaps i should blame the grumble for that
Click to expand...


Bob, do you use a digital camera and have you loaded them onto a computer? You can just go down the screen when you are post a thread to the "mange attachments" click on that and it will oepn another window , there hit "Browse" button it will allow you to access files on you computer by clicking on them, then click on upload. The files can not be too big and may need compressing, all things you can do with Microsofts picture program. It might take a few times but once you get the hang of it it's easy as pie.
 
AAWWW geeze..

OOHH crud,I think I just opened a can of somewhat peeved worms here.I wasn`t saying not to get the kit,just that if you already have a tool that works,why not?And I was talking about inexpensive NEEDLE TIPS, not the entire tool.Anyhow,now I wanna borrow a strip or two of the EZ tabs from a friend,and see if they do fit..Just a curiosity thing on my part.Although I haven`t used this for a shadow box,I have placed tags on some odd/thick sculpture surfaces with no ill effects.I only broke the needle because I dropped the gun. L.R.
 
Last edited:
A voice from far back in the past

The tool does indeed have a place. However as Tom has just stated and IMHO Can be verified in writeing , a lot of the alleged positions have changed over the YEARS as this discussion and what can be viewed on a LONG_LONG LIST of TFG archival threads IMO clearly proves .

I strongly advise ALL who truly care to know the truth as Tom and others know it to READ all post that have anything to to do with this topic as far back as can be brought up. And if you are a memeber of HH do the same there since this discussion is by no means limited to TFG , Tom or myself, as Pat or some other would have you belive.

But if speed and ease of application are your goal this tool can help . But I know some ( some here) who claim to be able to use a needle and thread just as quickly and proficiently. The choice is yours . But you may want to check to see if malfunctions of other guns where reported to be limited to cheap knock offs alone.

Of course i am no longer a Framer so this may seriously limit the value of my opinion. But yes pat i have seen you in person spoken to you and had demo CDs as I ahve had other guns and interchange tags in some. But that is all personal and we all know what that is worth. Unless you are a INDUSTRY EXPERT.

BUDDY
 
BUDDY said:
Of course i am no longer a Framer so this may seriously limit the value of my opinion. BUDDY
Click to expand...
Buddy, we all know that once a Framer, always a Framer. Our skills are upgraded with the advancement of technology, but the basics are very valuable.

You are still a Framer and your opinions/expertise are still valuable. Please stop selling yourself short.
 
Luddite; If you are trying to use the Micro fasteners in your tool, and it is not a MicroTach or Micro Stitch tool, the fasteners are not interchangeable in any other tool. The Micro fasteners and the Micro needles only fit in the MicroTach or Micro Stitch tools as well.

Most of the Fine Fabric tools out there will take any fine fabric fasteners and needles , but you must be sure that it is a fine fabric tool. There are many cheap tagging tools that are not Fine Fabric. The needles on these tools will be larger, and the plunger will be too big to go through the finer ball point needles. The Fine Fabric fasteners will also not work in these larger tools. The best thing I can tell you is that know what you are buying.

Don't be afraid to ask any question or bring up any subject. You have not opened a can of worms because those who are really in the know will tell you that I try really hard to help framers. If you have a way that works for you, you should keep using it.
 
Here are a few archives you may want to read as far back as 2003

Please excuse all the redundancy and any omissions such as you may find by searching "Avery Dennison" But the list is substantial enough to supply lots of info and then you can also consult HH if you are a member for any cross references. But try to read as much as you can and see if things are still as they where way back in 2003 and even before?

Scratched Frame ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
Jason April 3rd, 2006
by MatFramer 31 62 The Grumble

Info: "Attach-EZ" ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
ahohen March 17th, 2006
by fourcorners 38 90 The Grumble

Open letter to William Parker and Jim Miller ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
Bork March 3rd, 2006
by RoboFramer 40 82 The Grumble

attach-ezzzzz ( 1 2)
BILL WARD March 3rd, 2006
by BUDDY 13 16 The Grumble

I never thought I'd see the day ........... ( 1 2)
Framerguy January 18th, 2005
by Rick Granick 13 30 The Grumble

Mounting a pillow
Hobbes03 January 17th, 2005
by Hobbes03 7 33 The Grumble

flag framing for Navy Seal
Tommy P December 10th, 2004
by Jim Miller 3 14 The Grumble

New PITA charge for….. ( 1 2 3)
Jay H November 15th, 2004
by JudyN 23 31 The Grumble

8-ply suede?? ( 1 2)
Cliff Wilson October 13th, 2004
by Kristen 14 40 The Grumble

Attach-EZ and silk fabric ( 1 2)
Bill Henry- October 5th, 2004
by Pat Kotnour 10 19 The Grumble

How NOT to Frame Cross stitch 101 ..... ( 1 2 3)
Framerguy April 24th, 2004
by Emibub 20 104 The Grumble

EZ-TACH ( 1 2)
Kit April 21st, 2004
by Kit 18 46 The Grumble

Moderate Preservation? ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
Ron Eggers April 12th, 2004
by Bob Carter 31 51 The Grumble

peanuts
Reynard November 1st, 2003
by Pat Murphey 7 8 Warped Moulding Archive


Attach-EZ--Where it fits in todays market. ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
Pat Kotnour October 3rd, 2003
by El Framo 44 162 Grumble Archive pre 2004 Topics

The Dead Horse of Attach-EZE
EllenAtHowards October 2nd, 2003
by B. Newman 2 37 Grumble Archive pre 2004 Topics

Attach-Ez Revisited ( 1 2 3)
Ron Eggers September 23rd, 2003
by Framerguy 23 105 Grumble Archive pre 2004 Topics

useing Pat Kotnour
EZ Throw Away or Give Away ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
Dancinbaer 3 Minutes Ago
by Luddite 37 711 The Grumble

Plasma Frame on a swinging wall mount.
Uncle Eli January 18th, 2008
by Uncle Eli 6 141 The Grumble

EZ Attach ( 1 2 3)
mayos December 12th, 2007
by Pat Kotnour 20 490 The Grumble

Mount ideas for Fijian mat, mask and fighting clubs ( 1 2)
Twin2 September 24th, 2007
by Twin2 10 157 The Grumble

The Atlanta Show ( 1 2)
TheAvidFramer September 3rd, 2007
by Val 10 228 The Grumble

Mounting a trophy
DS August 27th, 2007
by Danimal 6 94 The Grumble

Do you cover eyescrews (or whatever)? ( 1 2)
ahohen1 July 27th, 2007
by Framar 17 529 The Grumble

Lace, pin or staple needlework? How to choose? ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
Natalya Murphy June 30th, 2007
by FraminGal 34 896 The Grumble

How to keep medal in place on jersey???
acrompton June 20th, 2007
by Jim Miller 7 226 The Grumble

If you went to Baltimore Decor-What are your Impressions ( 1 2)
Bob Carter May 7th, 2007
by Jerry Ervin 18 1,146 The Grumble

Mounting an oil painting ( 1 2)
Dave April 13th, 2007
by PaulSF 19 456 The Grumble

Any tips to make lacing go quicker? ( 1 2)
Natalya Murphy April 8th, 2007
by osgood 15 511 The Grumble

Not sure how to spell "Thangka," but I framed one ( 1 2)
Richard Darling March 29th, 2007
by Lance E 17 476 Picture Frame Design
Pat Kotnour...
danny boy March 19th, 2007
by Amy McCray 2 64 Warped Moulding

Need help with a post...HOAX ( 1 2)
Keaton February 9th, 2007
by D_Derbonne 14 441 The Grumble

WCAF trade show tips ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
Greg Fremstad January 22nd, 2007
by Amy McCray 37 1,070 The Grumble

Sherry Lee September 25th, 2006
by danny boy 28 664 The Grumble

Thank you Attach-EZ! ( 1 2 3)
Cliff Wilson July 7th, 2006
by Cliff Wilson 20 88 The Grumble

Sewing Awl Thingy
Jaci May 31st, 2006
by Jaci 5 23 The Grumble

Attach-EZ & leaving message on voice mail......
Pat Kotnour May 31st, 2006
by Ron Eggers 9 12 The Grumble

ATTACH-EZ question!
Jim April 4th, 2006
by Jim 3 18 The Grumble

Fletcher no longer distributing Attach Eze? ( 1 2)
Emibub April 1st, 2006
by Pat Kotnour 10 41 The Grumble

13th Annual EPFG Festival March 19th ( 1 2 3)
Terry Scidmore CPF March 18th, 2006
by Baer Charlton 27 78 The Grumble

Info: "Attach-EZ" ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
ahohen March 17th, 2006
by fourcorners 38 90 The Grumble



BUDDY
 
Pat Kotnour said:
Luddite; If you are trying to use the Micro fasteners in your tool, and it is not a MicroTach or Micro Stitch tool, the fasteners are not interchangeable in any other tool. The Micro fasteners and the Micro needles only fit in the MicroTach or Micro Stitch tools as well.

Most of the Fine Fabric tools out there will take any fine fabric fasteners and needles , but you must be sure that it is a fine fabric tool. There are many cheap tagging tools that are not Fine Fabric. The needles on these tools will be larger, and the plunger will be too big to go through the finer ball point needles. The Fine Fabric fasteners will also not work in these larger tools. The best thing I can tell you is that know what you are buying.

Don't be afraid to ask any question or bring up any subject. You have not opened a can of worms because those who are really in the know will tell you that I try really hard to help framers. If you have a way that works for you, you should keep using it.
Click to expand...
I have yet to actually try your fasteners.Yes, I know there are 2 sizes of gun/needle. I have both(admittedly NOT yours),The smaller one is truly tiny in comparison to the larger unit.I belive it was originally used as a quilter`s/dressmaker`s basting and tacking gun,therefore the tiny needle.The fasteners that I have for this are pretty small(think beanie baby/stuffed toy tag fasterners).The other unit is the standard "big bore needle/gun combo".I got it and a gallon zip bag of fasteners from a closing store ,otherwise don`t know where they got it.Like I said I`ve never used either for mounting art as of yet.Just wanted to know if it was a useable solution since I have them. L.R.
 
It looks like the more things change the more they stay the same.
 
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