EZ-Fix & Fill

Patricia Kotnour

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Industry Vendor
Featured Vendor Forum Sponsor
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Posts
1,883
Loc
Hastings, MN
Business
CEO of Attach-EZ, inc
It was brought to my attention that there is advertising being circulated by a distributor who is claiming to have the same thing as the our Attach-EZ EZ-Fix & Fill kit...for less money. From what I have seen this is NOT the same thing at all. Our large #700 kit will look like the one attached below and is now selling at show special pricing for $199. There is also a GWP included with this kit of the primary color stains. Reg. retail $230

The smaller EZ Fix & Fill 700S Starter kit is now selling for $115 with a GWP of the Gloss Blendit. Reg. Retail $130

We have also added a Deluxe kit that includes the 700 Large kit and the 800FK Finishing kit...both pictured below. GWP's included with this kit of the 5 Primary stain stick samples, and 6 Metallic Bronzing powders. Reg. retail $298. The product number for this kit is 700WFK is now selling for $260.

All products are available for immediate delivery.
 

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Burn in kits and waxes have been around for many, many, years. They are common to the furniture industry. No matter how simple it seems in the advertising, using burn in sticks has a big learning curve, and takes some serious time to master. An experienced burn in technician can make most damage to wood furniture completely disappear. It is a skill, that takes a lot of practice to master.

Unless you are willing to put in the work, don't start out by purchasing an expensive kit, that in all probability, will end up on a shelf in the back of your shop, never to be used again.

John
 
For some reason John, you seem to want to make sure that I fail with my newest addition to the Attach-EZ product line. To tell people not to buy a product that I am advertising here on a commercial post, and one you obviously have not seen demonstrated is pretty low. You make it sound like I am trying to deceive people, which couldn't be farther from the truth. Nor am I am trying to pass off something that I don't thoroughly believe in and know what I am selling. There are thousands of people all over the world who know me and have used my products. They will take my word because they know that I would not steer them wrong.

Although I would rather not get into a debate about how easy EZ-Fix & Fill is to use here on this thread, the fact is the Burn in sticks that are used in my kits were new to Mohawk when I found them a year ago, and not like the burn in sticks you are referring to at all. Maybe you should talk to the thousand or so people who have already purchased a kit before you make statements about a product that you have not seen demonstrated. The truth is I have not had one complaint or one person call to say that they couldn't get it to work. I am the first one to admit that it isn't going to work on everything, but almost every call I have received about this product is from someone who wants to tell me how glad they were that they bought the kit, and to tell me about how it saved them from having to scrap a frame they had damaged, or fix something that wouldn't have been useable without it. One woman told me that it is the one thing she uses in her shop every day and wouldn't be without it.

From the inception of Attach-EZ I have been attacked time and time again for trying to bring products and methods of use to shops that will help framers and save them time and money. Most of the attacks are by people who don't know anything about the product. But, all you have to do is go back to the many posts here to see how happy most are with what I have brought to this industry.

For anyone who is reading this, I apologize that it was necessary for me to defend myself here and I hope that you understand why I did. Business is hard enough these days and it is pretty discouraging to constantly be fighting people who seem to have nothing better to do than try to hurt a small business who is only trying to survive...just like they are.
 
Pat ... I appreciate what you do and don't fault you at all for trying to make a living by bringing to market for framers items from other industries. Your imagination on how to apply old and new products to the framing industry are appreciated by many.

You deserve to do well. You not only find these products but also provide education on how to use them.

Just yesterday I was doing some mounting with the Attach-EZ and thinking how easy and quick it was compared to sewing.

Thanks for all you do and your innovative approach to the industry.

:thumbsup:
 
Ditto Dave!

I to just did two cross stitches yesterday, in just a matter of minutes. Before Attach-EZ, I had my wife do the sewing (I have old eyes) and with Attach EZ, I can do them myself in minutes.

I haven't yet purchased the new wood filler kit, but I did see you demonstrate it at the Great Lakes PPFA meeting at LJ in Detroit just before you formally introduced it, and for our use, IMO any framer could learn to use it in minutes. Now learning to make nearly invisible repairs on flat sections of wood like a dining room table or such, I agree with John, would probably be something that would take considerable skill to learn to do. However we are not talking about those kind of fills & fixes concerning our mouldings in most cases.
 
Don't kill the messenger

I can understand your need to defend your turf (Pat), but to try and kill the messenger is very unfair. Most of the items in your product line are from other suppliers that offer the product lines to the general public (you have in some cases added /or combined item and added your spin on them for the framing industy). I, like John, have purchased item from the original company and used them in their orignal form. I'm in no way tring to say your product line is not very good, but you must agree some of these product have just been re-packaged with you instructions. We have purchased most of your products because they are a set of tools we could use, but the DVD disk (I purchased) was to much a sales tool for you and not a instructional step by step tool to use the products. I have to state again--The products were not developed (for the most point) in your lab but you give them a new life in the framing industry and many of these items can be purchase on the open market (for less) in the quanity the framer needs for their job. You have given our industry a great service. But that service is to package products and you should not be so quick to jump on someone , who like you, has been in this industry for years and was only telling the truth that the framer should look at everything before purchasing a product. Not everyone has the same skills and might not to be able to master this one.
 
The products were not developed (for the most point) in your lab but you give them a new life in the framing industry and many of these items can be purchase on the open market


Starving Artist, never has Pat tried to say that she invented any of these products. ( If she were trying to do that, she certainly would have changed the labels of some of the products. )Her contirbution has been in bringing products together into one easy place for framers to purchase and in developing techniques to adapt these products to the needs of framers.

My father was a business man his whole life and he had a saying for those PIA customers that we all run across. "You don't have to buy from me and I don't have to sell to you!"

This is a commercial forum where products are posted for sale. The opinions should go somewhere else.
 
...Most of the items in your product line are from other suppliers that offer the product lines to the general public...

Pat's doing a fine job of packaging these products in a way that adds value for framers. I'm happy for you that you know of all these products and take care of finding them yourself. If you don't like Pat's packages, don't buy them. It's not necessary to insert this kind of commentary here.

:kaffeetrinker_2:
 
The Indians have arrived

I love this forum. When John said items might be hard to use, some of the forum members were quick to jump on his back to defend their friend. When I pointed out that these items were offered by their major suppliers, they once again found it necessary to defend their friend again. I went to my supply box to see if the original manufactor was shown on the packages it was hard to find--except where it was molded into the handles. If these defenders were to read what we said they would find we were not finding fault with the products, but were only saying all products should be open to review and that some people may have problems with their use. I also said the major value to the service offered by suppliers like Pat is to offer instructions for the products use. It is also very interesting that the name on the product "EZ-Fix &Fill" looks like a product listing, not just that it showing the products are "ez" to use. I also understand this is a "Commercial Posts" area, but that even more important to be an open fourm about the products listed by their suppliers. For that reason I think framers should be allowed to post their reviews of the products without the vendor (or their friends--"The Indian Troop") finding it necessary to fire their arrows at the reviewer. I review the forum everyday, but do not post replies for this reason--"shoot the reviewer"---"don't review the information posted".
 
Many years ago I purchased a stereo from a furniture store, that is how it was done in those days. A stereo was a piece of living room furniture with all the components hidden from view. Anyway, they delivered my new stereo and a whole section of the front was broken. I called and they sent their repair man out to my home while I was at work.

I could not believe it was not a whole new stereo when I got home. I could not find any damage anywhere, it was a perfect repair. My wife (now my ex) told me the man had used what he called burn in sticks, and told me about how he used them.

I guess about twenty years or so ago, someone advertised a burn in set to our industry, it looked and sounded much like Pat's. I bought the set, I guess it was around $150.00. I followed every instruction to the letter, I practiced, I tried everything, I never could come even remotely close to that stereo repair job.

All I had was a hard wax nail hole filler that took more time than it was worth.
That kit now sits on a shelf in my back room, never gets touched.

The reason I posted was to suggest that those who buy Pat's product start out small and try it out before they invest in the whole kit.

Pat, I understand why you are upset but please bear in mind, you are a supplier to the picture framing industry, of which I am a member. My post was intended to be beneficial to people who practice our craft, not our suppliers. You are correct, these are indeed tough times and if I can save some of my fellow picture framers a few bucks, then my post was worth while.

You are also correct, I have never seen your product demonstrated. From the pictures, it sure looks like the old time burn in wax sticks, much like those on my back shelf. If you have something different, that is easy to use, then I apologize. Remember though, this forum is a picture framers forum, I'm a picture framer. I like to help our own.

John
 
I see nothing wrong with John's recent post and thought it to be quite civil.

Pat's new product introduction will sink or swim on it's own merits and her ability to bring that product to market and educate her customers.

John's advise is sound to wade before you swim. History has shown that Pat has a sixth sense of what is adaptable to our needs and I hope she finds success with this new intro.

I don't think anyone will disagree that she is bullish on the framing industry and has put much effort and thought into how she can make our jobs easier and more productive.
 
All is weel and good when giving opinions of a product, but to base those opinions on a kit bought 20 years ago is like comparing Blueray discs with Beta Tapes, just not right! If you have some CURRENT problem with a product, by all means protect me from a bad product, but don't muddy the water without first hand knowledge of the product.

Tom
PS I have used most of her other products and can first hand tell you they are labor savers!!
 
I can understand your need to defend your turf (Pat), but to try and kill the messenger is very unfair. Most of the items in your product line are from other suppliers that offer the product lines to the general public (you have in some cases added /or combined item and added your spin on them for the framing industy). I, like John, have purchased item from the original company and used them in their orignal form. I'm in no way tring to say your product line is not very good, but you must agree some of these product have just been re-packaged with you instructions. We have purchased most of your products because they are a set of tools we could use, but the DVD disk (I purchased) was to much a sales tool for you and not a instructional step by step tool to use the products. I have to state again--The products were not developed (for the most point) in your lab but you give them a new life in the framing industry and many of these items can be purchase on the open market (for less) in the quanity the framer needs for their job. You have given our industry a great service. But that service is to package products and you should not be so quick to jump on someone , who like you, has been in this industry for years and was only telling the truth that the framer should look at everything before purchasing a product. Not everyone has the same skills and might not to be able to master this one.

I really have to wonder what your objection is here? That I have brought really good, helpful ideas to the framing industry?.....or that I have been able to do it using my own methods of use with products I have found from other companies....and am making a little money while I'm at it?

It is true that you can buy larger quantities of the items in my kits that will cost less by the piece, but if you break a kit down and then try to purchase everything in it (if you can find it all) you would be paying a lot more for the same kit than you would by buying it from me. Not to mention the extra shipping cost for each individual company you would have to purchased from.

As far as your statement about my DVD goes, it is quite apparent that you haven't watched it you would know that there is 90 minutes of demonstrations on it. Anyone who really has the DVD and has watched it would also know that one of the first things I say in the Tool Tutorial section is that I did not invent the fabric mounting tools that are in my kits. Avery Dennison did. But for some reason you and JRB are trying to make people believe that I am trying to deceive them. The fact is that the two tools are only a small portion of what makes my systems work.

Between the 3 DVD's that I now have, there is 210 minutes of demonstrations between them....and a good portion of the demonstrations have nothing to do with the kits. My instructions of methods of use are what people are buying when they purchase an Attach-EZ kit....and also the fact that they don't have to spend hours on line to try to find the product they need to use my methods to mount 3D art. The DVD shows how to use all the items in the kit, and is what makes it worth the cost to most frame shops. Time is money and you may have enough time to scoured the inter-net for individual product parts, but most framers don't. Not to mention the additional cost for shipping on each individual part, which you would have to pay to each company in order to get all the items in the kits.

It has cost me thousands of dollars to create the 3 DVD's and the instruction booklets that come in all my kits, and there are some who have used my trademark name to sell their knock offs for years. These same companies have deceived people into thinking that they were buying an Attach-EZ kit...so yes I am defensive and territorial when it comes to my company. I realize that not everyone is going to like my methods or how I go about creating products, but why must you try to keep me from doing business? What makes what you, who are selling other companies products to your customers, or any of the book publishers who are selling how to books into the framing industry, any different from I do? We are all out for the same thing...to make living.

To those who really don't have anything to learn and can do it better by themselves I will say this....please don't buy any of my products or my DVD's. You will not like anything I have to offer. For those who are new to the industry or just want to find easier ways to do labor intensive jobs, call me. Most people will tell you that you will be glad you did.

Just for the record, this tread is about EZ-Fix & Fill. Sorry that it has gone so far off track.
 
You are also correct, I have never seen your product demonstrated. From the pictures, it sure looks like the old time burn in wax sticks, much like those on my back shelf. If you have something different, that is easy to use, then I apologize. Remember though, this forum is a picture framers forum, I'm a picture framer. I like to help our own.

John

JRB, why would you give any advise to framers on a product you admit you have not seen? When I give advise it is because I know what I am talking about. I don't guess or make assumptions about something that I know nothing about.

What you purchased 20 years ago is nothing like the burn sticks in my kits. If I could, I would love to tell you the main difference, but too many are copying my information to use in their own ads, so I will just say this....there is a big difference. I know exactly what you have, and you are right, it isn't easy to learn to use. Mine is.
 
For that reason I think framers should be allowed to post their reviews of the products without the vendor (or their friends--"The Indian Troop") finding it necessary to fire their arrows at the reviewer. I review the forum everyday, but do not post replies for this reason--"shoot the reviewer"---"don't review the information posted".

I welcome constructive criticism about the products my company brings on the market, but it is always best to have used a product before writing a review on whether people should buy it or not.
 
Reviewed original guidelines for this thread.

Most items posted are from frame shop owners or vendors selling overstocks. I agree that "Attach-EZ" should be allowed to sell their items, but with that in mind ---the framer has the right to present additional information from their own shops.

Our local Mohawk vendor showed us the "E-Z Flow" (burn-on stick and updated PlaneStick) system and DVD last year and we have been using it. As John originally stated there is a "learning curve" for any product and a quick exposure doesn't always work. I also think John might have been talking about Liberon'e "Filler Sticks" which were sold by many vendors---they were very hard to use. As for Mohawk, we use more of their toner sprays and wood finish products then their wood fillers. When you use their other products, wood fillers, bondo and compo, you don't need a complete set of colors to blend to fill "holes, etc" in frames. Our 40 plus years in this industry and 70 years of woodworking has shown us there are many ways to handle a problem and I agree that "Attach-EZ" offers a real service.

As for J Paul's and Pat Murphey's idea that a "vendor" can make a statement and the "framer" has no right to add their ideas does not belong on a America business fourm. I have not said that "Attch-EZ" has not offered a service, nor have I said they should not be paid for their services---what I did say was to attack another vendor (maybe the original supplier) was not called for on this fourm .

Mohawk and their vendors have a right to sell their complete line ,because they did develop the product line (but maybe not just for the Framing uses), and also are selling the public woodworkers.

Just like the framer purchasing their framing supplies at Home Depot (or anyother vendor) instead from Larson, I don't hear the vendors defending their products on this fourm. I agree that is the "free market system" and any product should be allowed to be reviewed in the open forum.
 
From the sounds of it neither JRB or Starving Artist have used Pat's E-Z Fix & Fill so how on earth can either of you give any type of review. I have used all of Pat's products and have nothing bad to say about any of it, in fact I have found the E-Z Fix & Fill easy to use after I watched the demonstration & read the instructions. Starving Artist, if you think that Pat's DVD are sales tools you didn't watch the same DVDs that I did, I suggest you contact Pat and purchase the ones she is selling and in that way you may be able to give an honest review. Her DVDs are informative and those instructions help train the framer in the proper use of her products, they sure aren't an advertisement as you suggested. Personally, I think it is really underhanded and very misleading to give a review of a product that neither of you have ever used or even seen demonstrated, I highly recommend her products and will continue using them and I am speaking through experience because I have and am still using all of her product. Oh yes, I believe we should give reviews but they should be honest reviews of products that you have personally used. If the product is bad then say it's bad, if it's good then say it's good, but first personally use the product and follow the recommendations and instructions that you receive with the product. If you don't personally use the product and if you don't follow the recommendations and instruction, you won't be giving an honest review. Thanks Pat, I for one appreciates your effort in putting together a decent product that makes my job easier.
 
Most items posted are from frame shop owners or vendors selling overstocks. I agree that "Attach-EZ" should be allowed to sell their items, but with that in mind ---the framer has the right to present additional information from their own shops...

Are you done, yet? The lady is offering her very nice product in this forum and you feel it necessary to spend this much time being negative?
:bdh:
 
Most items posted are from frame shop owners or vendors selling overstocks. I agree that "Attach-EZ" should be allowed to sell their items, but with that in mind ---the framer has the right to present additional information from their own shops.

Our local Mohawk vendor showed us the "E-Z Flow" (burn-on stick and updated PlaneStick) system and DVD last year and we have been using it.

Starving Artist, once again I say that I welcome constructive criticism as long as it is given by someone who actually has used the products. From what you have said, you do not have the same burn in product that is in my kits, and all you have to do is look at the pictures I posted of the 700 Large kit to know that it is also nothing like the kit JRB posted....which he bought 20 years ago. My burn sticks were brand new a little over a year ago when I first introduced EZ-Fix & Fill at the Decor show in Atlanta.

The E-Z Flow burn in sticks you refer to are also not the same thing as the burn sticks in my kits. They are much harder to use. I tested the E-Z flow sticks as well as many other products from Mohawk before I introduced the EZ-Fix & Fill product, and the end result was that the burn sticks I chose for my kits were the easiest and most reversable to work with in the application I was introducing to the industry.

Also, to put to rest the argument of whether EZ-Fix & Fill is worth the money, I used the suggested retail pricing on all the items in my kits to see how they stacked up against the distributors out there, and this is what I came up with:

700WFK Large kit / with 800 finishing kit
Attach-EZ price $260.00 + 2 GWP's
Sug. Retail $371.44 GWP not included

700 Large kit
Attach-EZ price $199.00 + 1 GWP
Sug. Retail $301.44 GWP not included

700S Starter kit
Attach-EZ price $115.00 + 1 GWP
Sug. Retail $172.44 GWP not included

Now, before you go searching the web to see if you can get the products cheaper than suggested retail, please keep in mind that you may find some of the items in my kits for less than SR, but when you put it all together, you still have a kit with no instructions, and you will have to pay additonal charges for shipping because there are 3 different companies in which the parts used in my kits come from. But I will say this as well....if you have enough time to try figure it out for yourself and you think you can save a dollar or two by doing so, then go for it. If not..call me. We are definately not over priced, we are always in stock on every product we sell, and we ship same day as long as the order is in by 3:00 pm cst.
 
This is the kit I have, I don't know if it is the same stuff or not.

http://woodworker.com/behlen-burn-in-kit-mssu-850-987.asp

John

So apparently you are posting on something that you have no idea about. Comparing a completely different product you purchased 2 decades ago to what Pat is offering is just off.

I think it is pretty bad that another sponsor on here has also ripped off Pat and her research.

Her products have helped me countless times.

Thanks Pat.

Bob
 
Thank you so much to all of you who have come to my defense, here and the countless other times as well. Your kind words really do make me feel appreciated. I try not to take criticism personally, but sometimes it can be very unfair, and admittedly that does get me a bit defensive.

A note to those who have posted some of the negative remarks here: For what it is worth, I never want anyone to feel that they can't give a review of my products, customer service, business practices, or anything else they might have to say about Attach-EZ or me. Most everyone who has ever done business with me will tell you that the buck really does stop here. The only thing I ask is, if you are going to criticise me or my products, to please be fair, be informed, and know what you are talking about before you do. You might find that I'm not such a bad person and may be able to give you a hand sometime if you gave me a chance. Helping framers is one of the best parts of the job and the one thing I love the most about it.
 
tks Pat

Have not the time or patience to spend looking for all that stuff, when you have done all the leg work, and have tried and true methods of using your kits. I have your Ez kit and it has made me, what I consider easy money because of your research and instructions, kits are easy to us.....Keep it coming, so I can frame and you can do the research and development to make my job easier...thanks.....Tommy
 
Tommy, it's posts like yours that make me want to try harder and make the job so rewarding. Thanks to all of you who are so supportive.
 
This is a commercial forum where products are posted for sale. The opinions should go somewhere else.

I. ... I also understand this is a "Commercial Posts" area, but that even more important to be an open fourm about the products listed by their suppliers. For that reason I think framers should be allowed to post their reviews of the products without the vendor (or their friends--"The Indian Troop") finding it necessary to fire their arrows at the reviewer. I review the forum everyday, but do not post replies for this reason--"shoot the reviewer"---"don't review the information posted".

I agree with Starving Artist. Amazon does that, and it's exactly what the customer needs to make a choice. Most ads for products are useless unless you can get some trustworthy info about the product first.
 
Just my humble opinion.
As supplier should not have to defend it's products so vigorously. It's a bit of a turn off.
While I have used attach ez, it is simply a repackaged garment attach tool, priced at a large markup.
Perhaps some energy should be directed to designing tools more reliable and specifically for framers needs.
 
Just my humble opinion.
As supplier should not have to defend it's products so vigorously. It's a bit of a turn off.
While I have used attach ez, it is simply a repackaged garment attach tool, priced at a large markup.
Perhaps some energy should be directed to designing tools more reliable and specifically for framers needs.

I'm guessing you are one of those that walks through an art exhibit, looks at the Rothko (or similiar) and says "I could have done that". Well, you didn't. Pat saw a need, found a resource, applied it to our business and viola. As to the large markup, well, I guess you must know what she pays for everything, know what her packaging runs, what portion of the production cost of the vidoes was, etc.

Man, why all of the hate? Hopefully this thread goes back to sleep for another 3 years. This kind of junk is the reason Pat isn't around here very often I bet.
 
Thank you so much to all of you who have come to my defense, here and the countless other times as well. Your kind words really do make me feel appreciated. I try not to take criticism personally, but sometimes it can be very unfair, and admittedly that does get me a bit defensive.

A note to those who have posted some of the negative remarks here: For what it is worth, I never want anyone to feel that they can't give a review of my products, customer service, business practices, or anything else they might have to say about Attach-EZ or me. Most everyone who has ever done business with me will tell you that the buck really does stop here. The only thing I ask is, if you are going to criticise me or my products, to please be fair, be informed, and know what you are talking about before you do. You might find that I'm not such a bad person and may be able to give you a hand sometime if you gave me a chance. Helping framers is one of the best parts of the job and the one thing I love the most about it.

Just for the record CB, I don't have to defend myself at all and if you were actually using my systems you would know that. It seems very odd to me that you would come at me about a post that is 3 years old. What prompted this?

There are about 40 different parts and 3 educational DVD's with 4 1/2 hours of demonstrations that come with one of our Deluxe kits. The Tagging tools you are referring to are only 2 of the items that make up a kit. And those who have actually used the tools know that it can be very costly if they are not used correctly. I don't mind having someone give fair and constructive criticism, but I don't think yours is. And why on a thread about EZ-Fix & Fill?

I'm sorry you feel the kits are over priced, but why come down on me about it now? Keep doing what you are doing and don't buy one.

pwalters, you are right on. Thanks.
 
Pat's a God Send

I stopped reading the posts at the end of page 2 because by then it was just re-hashing everything over and over. I love Pat's mind. She has taken so much of the work off the framer by finding these products along with a way to cut to the chase and give most of us just what we need...nothing more or less. One of my favorite cliches has always been "don't re-invent the wheel"... I give her so much credit. She is kind, cooperative and every time I have needed her she has come through for me. I pick her brain and she always is receptive.

Yeah...I have known about Mohawk and I have their videos and their catolog. I have never used it.
I get what I need from Pat with a warm hello and a bright smile. She has found a way to help herself while assisting a whole industry. Kudos to Pat and Attach EZ. She's my mounting and filling guru and I consider myself blessed that she is here!:)
 
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