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Praise EXTRA! EXTRA! Decor Atlanta is coming back!

RParrish

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Russ it's a business expense why wouldn't you go then?
 

Paul Cascio

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Having another show and another magazine is good for the industry. Which one is better is something that can be argued ad nauseum. There's no doubt that the Vegas show is the larger of the two at this time, but that doesn't necessarily make it better from an individual standpoint as there are other factors to consider.
 

Pat Kotnour

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1,826
Having another show and another magazine is good for the industry. Which one is better is something that can be argued ad nauseum. There's no doubt that the Vegas show is the larger of the two at this time, but that doesn't necessarily make it better from an individual standpoint as there are other factors to consider.
IMO both are the most positive things that have happened to the industry in 10 years. I have already committed to a booth and I am hoping that the rest of the industry will follow suit. If everyone sits back and says I'm going to wait and see, the show won't make it. The organizers can't plan a show based on air and a wait and see attitude. It takes a combined effort to make a show work.

I have been asked why I so strongly believe that the Decor show is going to be any different this time around and also why we shouldn't just forget about it and just attend the PPFA tabletop shows. This is my answer:


The local tabletop shows organized by the PPFA chapters are great and from the sounds of things the SE chapter is going to have a wonderful Frame Fest event. But the thing that many of the chapters don't understand is that small company's like mine and many others can't afford the expense to travel to all the local chapter shows. We don't have a paid sales force living in the areas of the chapters like many of the larger companies have, and we are left out because of it. No matter how well attended the tabletop shows are, they just aren't big enough to warrant the cost to attend. If I could afford it I would buy a table at every PPFA show in the country, but doing that would break the bank.

The way I see it is that the Decor show can offer a lot of exposure to many company's like mine,
as well as the big boys. People came from all over the world. The show has the potential to once again be a great show and I truly believe that it is a good and very positive thing for the industry....and an opportunity for PPFA to increase their world wide membership as well. I implore all of the officers, board members, chapter leaders and members to help make it happen.


Now I am also asking that everyone who is in the business help make this show happen as well. If our industry can't support two big shows a year, then we may as well resign ourselves to the fact that the industry will continue to stagnate. We should all be doing everything we can to help the Decor show become as successful as it once was. It was a very successful show and with our help it can be again.
 

GUMBY GCF

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Dec 7, 2001
Messages
4,560
I will go to Atlanta..

Plan ahead ask for a tour of Larsen Juhl's great Facility in Atlanta...very friendly maybe meet the people on the other end of the phone.... Don't forget Omega they have huge warehouse there also.

Maybe Décor will arrange a bus tour to the warehouses that might be ionteresting?
 

Pat Kotnour

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EllenAtHowards

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My name is Ellen and I am a trade show junkie. I'll be there and there and there...
 

Mike Labbe

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FramerCat

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Russ has it exactly right. I choose what shows I attend the same way he does. I have to weigh cost vs. benefit, which is the same way I run every other aspect of my business. Choosing to attend the Atlanta show and not attend the Las Vegas show is not a matter of one being better than the other or even an implication that one can replace the other, it is a matter of what I expect my ROI to be.

Just because it’s a business expense doesn’t mean you should do it. Buying an entire freighter full of moulding would be a business expense but not necessarily a very good decision.

Ed
 

DVieau2

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Oct 26, 2004
Messages
9,088
I'm not sure it's possible to sit down and determine a accurate Return on Investment.

How do you monetize big plans and meeting people.

I often learn about things that might be implement or purchased years down the road.

Doug
 

Paul Cascio

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Messages
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I hope the Atlanta Show next year is great. And based on some of the things I'm hearing, Decor is trying to make sure it is successful. However...

As business people, we need to evaluate these shows from an economic / business standpoint and not an emotional standpoint.

The 4 key points in any show are: 1) number and quality of vendors, 2) number and quality of attendees, 3) number and quality of education opportunities, and 4) costs. These 4 items are key, whether you are an attendee or if you are a vendor.
...

.
So your argument is that no framer should ever attend a new show because it won't have as many vendors, attendees, or educational opportunities?

If framers used that line of convoluted logic, the Vegas show would have never gotten off the ground.
However, I do agree that people should only attend the Atlanta show if they can find benefits in doing so.

For example:

If you've been disappointed in the classes you've attended, or found the offering of classes to be redundant, or on occasion, a thinly veiled product pitch, you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you'd like to collect some new ideas, or hear from a fresh group of instructors, or think the Vegas show has grown stale, you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you'd like to meet with vendors at a more relaxed pace, who are able to spend more time with you to answer your questions and hear your comments, you may want to try the Atlanta show, where you'll be more than a business card in a fish bowl.

If you'd like to meet with more vendors from the eastern and southeastern part of the U.S., or small vendors with great products who can't afford the Vegas show, you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you're not a fan of Amber, Sapphire, Tiffany or Ginger, or perhaps you think Vegas itself has seen its day, you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If a flight to Atlanta is less expensive, or shorter, than a flight to Vegas, or if a drive to Atlanta is shorter than a drive to Vegas, you may want to try the Atlanta show.




AD IF YOU'RE A VENDOR, and you'd like to reach a different group of potential customers, or to be geographically closer to 80% of the industry, or take advantage of an opportunity to have a presence at a major trade show at a substantially lower cost, you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you'd like to have more time to spend with a prospective customer, or enjoy a dialogue that goes beyond, "May I have your business card?", you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you find that the people who visited your booth last year were the same ones who visited the previous year, and the year before that, you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you'd like to see more competition for your advertising and promotion dollars, you may want to try the Atlanta show. And you might also want to consider allocating part of your advertising budget to a magazine that is on the upswing, a magazine that has a long and rich tradition in our industry.
 
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Jeff Rodier

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Jul 28, 2005
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I bought over 100 boxes of moulding at the last Atlanta show I went to and it was a lot of fun until the truck arrived. :cry:

I prefer the fall show since it falls at a time that inventory is needed for fall & holiday business.
 

Pat Kotnour

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Mar 11, 2003
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I can understand why you Ed or Russ would not want to leave one show for the other. You are both closer to LV. But there are thousands of framers in the east who don't get to go to the WCAF show because of distance. They are the people who want this show.....who need this show. It cost us small vendors dearly when the Atlanta show went out. We need it back and the only formula and goal that I am using to decide why I will be there is my bottom line. My company had a 30% drop the frist year without Atlanta and it has taken years to bring it back to something even close. There are many of us out here who depended on that show. Like I said before, if our industry can't support 2 big shows then we have a pretty bleak future ahead of us. If you can't justify the expense to go to both shows, so be it. But if you can manage both, please give Decor a chance. Nothing will change if we don't allow it to.
 

Pat Kotnour

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So your argument is that no framer should ever attend a new show because it won't have as many vendors, attendees, or educational opportunities?

If framers used that line of convoluted logic, the Vegas show would have never gotten off the ground.
However, I do agree that people should only attend the Atlanta show if they can find benefits in doing so.

For example:

If you've been disappointed in the classes you've attended, or found the offering of classes to be redundant, or on occasion, a thinly veiled product pitch, you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you'd like to collect some new ideas, or hear from a fresh group of instructors, or think the Vegas show has grown stale, you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you'd like to meet with vendors at a more relaxed pace, who are able to spend more time with you to answer your questions and hear your comments, you may want to try the Atlanta show, where you'll be more than a business card in a fish bowl.

If you'd like to meet with more vendors from the eastern and southeastern part of the U.S., you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you're not a fan of Amber, Sapphire, Tiffany or Ginger, you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If a flight to Atlanta is less expensive, or shorter, than a flight to Vegas, or if a drive to Atlanta is shorter than a drive to Vegas, you may want to try the Atlanta show.




AD IF YOU'RE A VENDOR, and you'd like to reach a different group of potential customers, or to be closer to 80% of the industry, or take advantage of an opportunity to have a presence at a major trade show at a substantially lower cost, you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you'd like to have more time to spend with a prospective customer, or enjoy a dialogue that goes beyond, "May I have your business card?", you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you find that the people who visited your booth last year were the same ones who visited the previous year, and the year before that, you may want to try the Atlanta show.

If you'd like to see more competition for your advertising and promotion dollars, you may want to try the Atlanta show. And you might also want to consider allocating part of your advertising budget to a magazine that is on the upswing, a magazine that has a long and rich tradition in our industry.
Very well said Paul. I would like to make a suggestion to all of the east coast businesses; call your sales people and vendors to tell them that you support this show and will be there and that you want them there too. They need to know how much the industry is on board. Especially the attendees.
 

framah

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Mar 15, 2001
Messages
8,758
Who knows... maybe Amber, Sapphire, Tiffany and Ginger are tired of the same old framers hitting on them and will be checking out Atlanta!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

FramerCat

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Messages
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I can understand why you Ed or Russ would not want to leave one show for the other. You are both closer to LV.
Sorry Pat, I think there was a mis-communication. What I probably didn't get across was that I am in the east so the cost for going to the Atlanta show is cheaper and as long as I believe I will be getting my moneys worth I am more likely to go to it. I haven't been going to the Vegas show because of the enormous cost and the fear that the experience won't compensate for the amount of time I'm away from my shops, the cost of the flight, the hotel, the tickets to the show, the food and all of the other incidentals. I have been to Decor shows on the east coast before and felt that I about broke even, so it is possible that I will go to Atlanta but it is unlikely that I will go to Vegas.

Pat, while I have your attention, would you be willing to comment on why you did not attend the NY show but are very enthusiastic about the Atlanta show? Is it a matter of what I and Russ and even yourself were talking about; that you assessed that the benefits would not outweigh the costs or has something else convinced you to attend in Atlanta?

Thanks,
Ed
 
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Pat Kotnour

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Mar 11, 2003
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Sorry Pat, I think there was a mis-communication. What I probably didn't get across was that I am in the east so the cost for going to the Atlanta show is cheaper and as long as I believe I will be getting my moneys worth I am more likely to go to it. I haven't been going to the Vegas show because of the enormous cost and the fear that the experience won't compensate for the amount of time I'm away from my shops, the cost of the flight, the hotel, the tickets to the show, the food and all of the other incidentals. I have been to Decor shows on the east coast before and felt that I about broke even, so it is possible that I will go to Atlanta but it is unlikely that I will go to Vegas.

Pat, while I have your attention, would you be willing to comment on why you did not attend the NY show but are very enthusiastic about the Atlanta show? Is it a matter of what I and Russ and even yourself were talking about; that you assessed that the benefits would not outweigh the costs or has something else convinced you to attend in Atlanta?

Thanks,
Ed
The reason that I didn't attend the NY show had more to do with location than anything......I am not a fan of NY. Although the organizers are trying to revive the framing part of it, the show was never viewed as a framing show. It's always been more about art and for me to go to it last year was not in the cards. I was also dealing with a pinched nerve in my back. If you have ever been to my booth at any of the shows you know how hard it is on me and the older I get the more the show's take a toll. NY is not off the table for 2015. I'm just going to have to wait to see how things go health wise.

As far as the Atlanta show is concerned, it is a no brain'er for me. I have said time and time again that the industry needs that show and voiced my opinion to Michael many times......and he listened. You can't imagine how often I have been told by my accounts how much that show has been missed. It was always our best show for sales. People came in from all over the world to attend it. Atlanta is a hub for foreign travel and is much easier to get to for almost everyone east of the Rocky's and around the world. Don't get me wrong, LV has a wonderful show and I am not suggesting that anyone bail on that show for Decor. There are so many framers and shops out east that have been waiting and hoping for the Decor comeback, many who haven't been to a show since the last Decor show, so if it is done right from the get go, the show won't need the west coast people to make it successful. But again I am going to sound a bit like a broken record here; we ALL have to help make it happen. Sitting back with a wait and see attitude is not going to cut it. Getting the word out is the first step. We all have the power to make it happen and I will do everything in my power to help Michael and the RW Group to keep the buzz going. I have made a commitment to the show and hope the rest of the industry will do the same.

Sorry Ed, I read your area as MO, not MD.
 

Pat Kotnour

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The reason that I didn't attend the NY show had more to do with location than anything......I am not a fan of NY. Although the organizers are trying to revive the framing part of it, the show was never viewed as a framing show. It's always been more about art and for me to go to it last year was not in the cards. I was also dealing with a pinched nerve in my back. If you have ever been to my booth at any of the shows you know how hard it is on me and the older I get the more the show's take a toll. NY is not off the table for 2015. I'm just going to have to wait to see how things go health wise.

As far as the Atlanta show is concerned, it is a no brain'er for me. I have said time and time again that the industry needs that show and voiced my opinion to Michael many times......and he listened. You can't imagine how often I have been told by my accounts how much that show has been missed. It was always our best show for sales. People came in from all over the world to attend it. Atlanta is a hub for foreign travel and is much easier to get to for almost everyone east of the Rocky's and around the world. Don't get me wrong, LV has a wonderful show and I am not suggesting that anyone bail on that show for Decor. There are so many framers and shops out east that have been waiting and hoping for the Decor comeback, many who haven't been to a show since the last Decor show, so if it is done right from the get go, the show won't need the west coast people to make it successful. But again I am going to sound a bit like a broken record here; we ALL have to help make it happen. Sitting back with a wait and see attitude is not going to cut it. Getting the word out is the first step. We all have the power to make it happen and I will do everything in my power to help Michael and the RW Group to keep the buzz going. I have made a commitment to the show and hope the rest of the industry will do the same.

Sorry Ed, I read your area as MO, not MD.
This is on line for anyone who is interested in getting booth pricing and schedule time, place, ect.
http://www.eventbrite.com/e/decor-expo-atlanta-2015-trade-show-tickets-12005650223

You can also find it if you put in Decor Atlanta 2015
 

Grey Owl

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
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Russ it's a business expense why wouldn't you go then?
Sorry I haven't responded Randy. Been busy framing (and doctor appointments) so haven't been on the Grumble much recently.

Yes, I agree it is a business expense, so it is deductible. However I need income to offset a deductible. And if I have too many deductibles I have no income. I also need a certain level of profit from my business. So I need to prioritize which expenses are most important for me. So those that have, what I think is the best ROI, should be the expenses I consider first. If I end up selling above my budget / income plan, then I can consider additional expenses, or having additional income.

My current budget for personal education is around $2,000 a year. This is enough for WCAF (or another trade show that will give me an equal or greater ROI), some of the PPFA chapter events, books, and also covers materials I use for my "internal training", wherein I buy materials to determine new techniques and refine my existing techniques. For example, most of my gold leaf work has been with regular 22k gold leaf. However a few years ago someone mentioned patent leaf, and double leaf. As you know, I do a lot with colored / painted bevels, panels, so I bought a couple of packages to try on bevels to see what the difference is. That is part of my educational budget.

Again, I'm not saying I will not go, but I need to wait and see who the vendors are, and what the educational options are, before I would consider. For example, if they had more demo type educational options, vs. the WCAF which is primarily lecture, that might make a difference.

The distance is not quite as much of an issue. For both the WCAF or something on the East Coast, I would leave on the morning before. And really, traveling from the East coast in the evening is easier to travel going west, because the way the time changes. And the airline costs are not significantly different, particularly if you use miles.
 

Grey Owl

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So your argument is that no framer should ever attend a new show because it won't have as many vendors, attendees, or educational opportunities?
Paul, my argument is not that a framer should not attend because it won't have as many vendors, or attendees, or educational opportunities, my argument for me is based on the QUALITY of the vendors, the educational opportunities, and the attendees. If one show has better Quality vendors, educational opportunities, and attendees, then that is my first choice.

For example, if a show had 1000 educational opportunities, and 999 were on how to download art and print it in your shop to sell, that would not be an educational opportunity for me. Having a class by Hugh Phibbs or Bill Adair for me is a quality educational opportunity. (Whether in Las Vegas, New York or Atlanta). First I can tell my customers that I take continuing education every year, and I can also learn new things.

Considering vendors, well I have plenty of vendors so it is not like a few years ago that I was looking for new vendors. However, there are always one or two new ones that might be of interest, as has happened every year at WCAF. I expect that the Atlanta show would have more new vendors for me. However I would also like to know if my existing vendors would be at the show because I normally buy my length moulding from my standard vendors at the show because I get great discounts. Likewise, if I know I need some replacement items from Pat (Attach-eze), I would like her to be there too, so I can get discounted prices on my replacements.

Considering other attendees, If I know some of the others that are going, then between classes, in the morning, what ever, I can socialize, and learn more. For example, talking to Ellen one year, I found out about Patent gold, which is much easier to use for doing bevels than regular gold. Very beneficial. Talking to Hugh, I learned things to.

So a new location again, is based on the ROI I expect I can get. And if it turned out there is only one show in the US and it is in say Maine, If that is where it is I have to go, then that is where I will, as long as I believe I will get an ROI.

I do not go to a show, based on the night life. Or the Gambling.
 

Martyc85

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Joined
Oct 23, 2013
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I know it'll be a while , but I can't wait to see what kind of classes will be there and a vender list. Have you guys talked to anybody that's committed to going yet?
 
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Rob Markoff

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mbboston

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
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WHAT???? And here I thought it was all about the Chinese Dinner :)
I enjoy Vegas and will not give it up. Classes are fantastic. I would consider adding Atlanta trip only if Rob organizes a version of dinner extravaganza.
 

Pat Kotnour

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Mar 11, 2003
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1,826
The show is a year away so I don't think anyone should be expecting to have class schedules for at least another 6 months or more. The show may not have the quality of education it's first year back that the WCAF show has, but I am very sure that there will be new faces, topics. and classroom formats that we have not seen before. Hopefully the industry will support the show and help the RW Group get it off to a good start. There is no reason that Decor Atlanta can't again be the premier show it once was. It is up to everyone in the industry to help make it happen.

This is on line for anyone who is interested in getting booth pricing and schedule time, place, ect.

http://www.eventbrite.com/e/decor-ex...ts-12005650223

You can also find it if you put in Decor Atlanta 2015
 

cvm

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
7,661
I'm partial to Busy Bee Cafe.

And this CRAZY new place called Gunshow; one of the coolest, yet most perplexing dining experiences I've ever had. Get a group together and go for the family-style 8-course meal!!!
 
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Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
4,659
I don't see how we can argue the quality of anything about this show until more information is known. This is especially true with respect to quality of education. Quality relates more to offering that which is relevant to an attendee's interests, and also what is fresh. If you've already taken a class on widget building for example, then no matter how good it was, your likelihood of wanting/needing to take it again is probably slim. I love lobster, but maybe tonight I want steak.
 

Pat Kotnour

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
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I don't see how we can argue the quality of anything about this show until more information is known. This is especially true with respect to quality of education. Quality relates more to offering that which is relevant to an attendee's interests, and also what is fresh. If you've already taken a class on widget building for example, then no matter how good it was, your likelihood of wanting/needing to take it again is probably slim. I love lobster, but maybe tonight I want steak.
Thank you Paul, for bringing this back to the subject the thread is about. It's all about da show, da show, da show----not dinner. It's all about da show, da show, da show----not dinner! ;)
 
D

Dermot Cox-Kearns

Guest
I travel to quite a few trade shows around the world. .

One of the key things aside from the vendors at a show that would entice me to travel is the quality of the social connections I can make and the chance of some cross pollination. ...

All work and no play adds up to boring for me...

Vendors that are to in my face about the business side of trade shows give me a headache. ..

I have over the years attended at over 250 trade shows globally. ..at this stage I can get a good feel for what a trade show will stack up to be by listening to the hype some vendor will spout about a show.
 

Pat Kotnour

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
1,826
I have over the years attended at over 250 trade shows globally. ..at this stage I can get a good feel for what a trade show will stack up to be by listening to the hype some vendor will spout about a show.
As a distributor yourself it is understandable that you would have been to so many shows, so you should know that most people go to shows for the quality and quantity of vendors and classes, not for social reasons. Right now keeping focus on getting this show back is the only thing the industry should be talking about. There will be plenty of time to organize social events when the show is off an running and a class and vendor list is out.
 
D

Dermot Cox-Kearns

Guest
As a distributor yourself it is understandable that you would have been to so many shows, so you should know that most people go to shows for the quality and quantity of vendors and classes, not for social reasons. Right now keeping focus on getting this show back is the only thing the industry should be talking about. There will be plenty of time to organize social events when the show is off an running and a class and vendor list is out.
Most people that I encounter as I attend trade shows want a good social element to there investment with a good chance of some good cross pollination. ..

In fact I would feel that in the majority of cases the vendors play second fiddle. ..

BTW please stop assuming that you know what I am thinking. ..and stop trying to put words in my mouth as you have done in you last post and on other occasion. ..

The total quality of the show is what matters not just vendors that will attend....

and a bit off topic. ..

Is the framing industry big enough in the US for two major shows...

I have very close connections to the laboratory supply industry which is way bigger than the framing industry they have only one major trade show in the US...

My feeling is better one major quality show that possibility two fragmented shows...

Travel across the US is not a very major distance these days. ..at most you are talking about an extra day of travel...or at least from ireland the west coast is about a half to one day travel on the east coast depending on my routines. ..

By a day in context of this post I mean a working day 8 to 10 hours...
 
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Rob Markoff

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Joined
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Messages
5,190
One of the key things aside from the vendors at a show that would entice me to travel is the quality of the social connections I can make and the chance of some cross pollination. ...

All work and no play adds up to boring for me...
Thanks for bringing this up, Dermot. Unfortunately I think there are many who are short sighted and only look to shows for the immediate tangible - vendors and classes.

I am with you that the social aspect of the shows, the contacts/connections made are extremely important.

I can also understand how a vendor who "consistently has the busiest booth at the show"- (albeit grossly understaffed) might be exhausted at the end of the day and not feel like socializing.

It was at a show that I met and became close friends with Marc Bluestone who has been a confidant and mentor for many years. It is also why I put together dinners at the shows and encourage framers to sit with people they didn't come with.

I have always lobbied for "lounges" at the shows where framers can take a break and have a place where they can meet, talk, and compare notes. Savvy vendors should look to this as an opportunity to sponsor the lounge as a gesture of goodwill and not as "taking bodies off the floor".

It is the "total experience" that makes a show - from the venue to the layout of the trade show floor, to the exhibitors and yes, to the dinners/breakfasts and social aspects. Some of us even have interests outside of framing :) Regional cuisine can put a real "stamp" on the location of a show and that's why I posted the restaurants I did.

I am excited about all the buzz currently going on on other forums and hearing about the great "after and before hours" plans that are being made for Las Vegas - and the coordination of arrival dates so there can be extra social time! With the advent of social media, there are many framers who are now "friends" who have never met in person!

All of this makes "da show".
 

Ylva

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I have not been to any big framing trade shows. If I would go to one, it would be Vegas. Why? Because all the framers I know will be there too, plus the ones I would love to meet one day. Don't underestimate the social issue. In fact, for quite a lot of us, that might be the most important.

I would like to see the vendors but most of all, I would like to hang out with fellow framers and take some classes.

In my previous life :) , I did attend quite a few trade shows. Although fun, most of it didn't stick in my mind long enough and after an hour or two of walking the floor, it also gets quite boring. The ones that I do remember are the ones where there was more socializing going on. Dinners, breakfasts, going out for a drink, exchanging ideas.
 
D

Dermot Cox-Kearns

Guest
Travel is not a big issue these days...

For example my wife has to be in NY city on Monday for two things at the UN and a ringing of the bell at the NY stock exchange on Tuesday. ..

I decided to go with her for us to have a few days holidays...we travel out tomorrow morning and I will travel back on Wednesday night getting me back in the office next Thursday. ..Jean has to go on to Washington DC on Wednesday for some more things there on Thursday and Friday next...

I mentioned to Jerry (Jerome) Feig that I would be in NYC on Monday with a bit of time on my hands...he is travelling to NY city to meet with me...as anyone who knows Jerry you will know he is on a very limited budget at present, as he is getting his Minoxy anoxic framing system off the ground. ..

I mentioned to one of my suppliers in NY city who I am going to visit that Jerry was coming to NYC to meet me....the supplier who could be a big distribution for the Minoxy framing system asked me to bring Jerry along on my visit for a chat. ...not bad for Jerry and all because he embraced the social side of business. ..
 
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Dermot Cox-Kearns

Guest
John Ranes

If you read this what was the name of the meat loaf place you took a group of us to in NYC for dinner years ago when we did a social night out after a day at a framing trade show. ...I would like to bring Jean there...

I did email you ...but no response. ...perhaps I have an old email address. ..
 

Grey Owl

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Messages
2,582
As everyone says, it is a year away, so we are going to have to wait until after the 2015 PPFA Convention and WCAF and National Conference in Las Vegas in January, to see what is going to happen in Atlanta in September. My thoughts are more on these right now.

I'm not going to make any evaluation / commitment about Atlanta until probably early summer, because by then I will be able to better evaluate, and know how my own business is doing to evaluate my ROI.:icon21:

I know one thing that would help influence me, positively, is if ROB would step up and VOLUNTEER to take on the responsibility of trying to herd framers to a van for a Grumble Dinner. As he always says "OKay people, hey people, Come on people, Listen up people, Hey can I have your attention, Oh I don't know why I do this..." That is always a Positive ROI for me!
 
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Cliff Wilson

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I don't wish anyone ill, but I'm very skeptical that this show makes sense.

Even before it's previous demise I found it ill-timed for my shop.
It is scheduled right when I need to be in my shop prepping for the holiday season.
The worst time to leave for an extended time IMO.
I am intrigued by the idea of shorter local events that time of year, but a "big" show seems problematic to me.

Even back in the old days when I considered Atlanta, I always found it more expensive than a Vegas trip even from the Northeast.
Unless you drive there I don't see the appeal.

All that said, things change and circumstances could alter my view.
 

Pat Kotnour

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
1,826
The total quality of the show is what matters not just vendors that will attend....

Is the framing industry big enough in the US for two major shows...

I have very close connections to the laboratory supply industry which is way bigger than the framing industry they have only one major trade show in the US...
Maybe it would be better to wait and see what quality of show Decor puts on before people give negative reviews about a show that hasn't happened yet Since you seem to know a bit about the US you should also know that 80% of the population of this country is east of the Rockies and closer to GA than it is to NV. GA is easier to get to for most as well. Is the industry big enough to support 2 shows? It was before the great recession and will be again if we give Decor a chance. Many shops and framers haven't been to a show since the last Decor show because of time and distance. Build it and they will come.

I do wonder though why someone from Ireland so concerned about what we are doing here? The stock market is at an all time high. Things are looking up and have been for awhile now and from what I can tell from the product orders from our distributor in Ireland, things are looking up in your country too. So why would you not want to see the industry continue to gain strength and grow? The Decor show is a step in the right direction.

As far as the rest of your post Dermot, I'm not playing.
 
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Dermot Cox-Kearns

Guest
Maybe it would be better to wait and see what quality of show Decor puts on before people give negative reviews about a show that hasn't happened yet Since you seem to know a bit about the US you should also know that 80% of the population of this country is east of the Rockies and closer to GA than it is to NV. GA is easier to get to for most as well. Is the industry big enough to support 2 shows? It was before the great recession and will be again if we give Decor a chance. Many shops and framers haven't been to a show since the last Decor show because of time and distance. Build it and they will come.

I do wonder though why someone from Ireland so concerned about what we are doing here? The stock market is at an all time high. Things are looking up and have been for awhile now and from what I can tell from the product orders from our distributor in Ireland, things are looking up in your country too. So why would you not want to see the industry continue to gain strength and grow? The Decor show is a step in the right direction.

As far as the rest of your post Dermot, I'm not playing.
You clearly know little about Ireland. ...Irish companies employ more people in the USA than US companies employ in Ireland. ...the numbers are in the 100's thousands..

A number of Irish business in the framing world would see the US as their main market...

In fact the USA is ireland biggest export market the numbers are in billions and billions dollars. .

Again you put words in my mouth....I never said anything about the framing business not growing. ...Please stop this sort of thing...


I have not said anything negative all I did was ask a few probing questions. ...if the Atlanta show is not up to a few probing questions then perhaps it won't be up to much...

I do say that for someone who is so set on this show I find it bizarre that you are talking it up so much yet you tell me to wait and see what will be on offer be before I can say something.....strange sort of attitude. ..

as for what you mean by "playing" I have absolutely no idea what you are on about....are you trying to get into my head or something like that !!!
 

Pat Kotnour

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
1,826
I don't wish anyone ill, but I'm very skeptical that this show makes sense.

Even before it's previous demise I found it ill-timed for my shop.

All that said, things change and circumstances could alter my view.
The Decor show was always somewhere in the first 10 days of Sept. and was very well attended. Many shops would use it it pick up artwork and to get deals on moulding and mat boards for the holiday market . Having the two shows spaced so far apart and at such different times of year was one of the things that made it good. It was also the reason one show didn't hurt the other.
 

Ylva

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For working mom framers, September is possibly the worst month to go to a show. Anyone who ever had to handle the start of a new school year would know that.

"Pat Kothour said: "80% of the population of this country is east of the Rockies and closer to GA than it is to NV. GA is easier to get to for most as well. Is the industry big enough to support 2 shows? It was before the great recession and will be again if we give Decor a chance. Many shops and framers haven't been to a show since the last Decor show because of time and distance. Build it and they will come."

These days, it doesn't really matter where 80% of the population lives, you hop on a plane and it takes you where you need to go. So that comment seems a bit irrelevant.
What was before the great recession is not relevant either. We are nowhere near where we were before. Less framers, shrinking industry, so I think the concern of 2 major shows is very valid.
Thinking 'build it and they will come' seems very naive to me. Most framers, if they consider going to a show will pick one or the other. Sure, there might be a few who would go to both.
Framers have not been to a show since the last Decor show. I doubt it was because of time and distance. If you could only pick one show, and believe me, that is a most likely scenario for a lot of framers, what would you pick?

I know what I would do. Vegas all the way for all the reasons I already stated previously.
 
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wvframer

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The population of the US east of the Rocky Mountains seems to be growing daily...:icon21:
 

Rob Markoff

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Messages
5,190
Thinking 'build it and they will come' seems very naive to me...........
Uh Oh, Ylva. Now you've done it. You used the "N" word in a reply to Pat.................RUN! :)
 

Jennifer P

True Grumbler
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Jan 21, 2010
Messages
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"These days, it doesn't really matter where 80% of the population lives, you hop on a plane and it takes you where you need to go. So that comment seems a bit irrelevant.
What was before the great recession is not relevant either."

Have you priced a plane ticket lately??? :popc:
I think a Decor Show in Atlanta would be wonderful and I will plan to attend if it happens!
 

FramerCat

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Messages
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This is a very interesting thread. I wonder if it will help or hinder Décor’s project. I’m wondering if it is obvious to everyone reading this what the agendas and motivations of a lot of the participants in this discussion are. This seems to be right down framing party lines. Will Décor use this growing schism to attempt to draw in framers who have felt alienated by the other hierarchy? Would framers respond better to a message of we need you and your talent and ideas to help us all be successful rather than the traditional call of we know better than you how to run your business so listen to what we say and don’t bother us about issues we don’t want to discuss. I don’t know if this is the direction Décor is planning to go, but I hope it is. Although, they have an online magazine rather than an interactive forum so it probably is not.

Anybody want to publicly post their resumes so everyone can see who is paying them to promote or discredit the Décor Expo? And before we get into that argument I don’t necessarily mean paying them with money.

Ed
 
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Rob Markoff

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Have you priced a plane ticket lately???
Allow me to call you a whaaaaambulance.

With all due respect, Jennifer - there are MANY ways to get a FREE airline ticket to anywhere. I have been posting some of them regularly.

If one really WANTS to attend a show (any show), they will make it happen. :)

There is also foresight and planning. By adding $2 to every fitting charge as a "trade show tariff," if one starts in January, by the Fall there should easily be enough for a plane ticket and probably the other costs as well. And, if there isn't, then one MAY learn something at the show that would increase revenue so that the business could afford to pay for attending as a cost of business. There are also plenty of people advertising for someone to share a room.

Others have been posting incredible deals they have gotten on rooms by joining M life or by taking advantage of "bundles" being offered on hotel and air packages through the various airlines. I dare say that flying to Las Vegas as a destination is potentially less expensive for many than to Atlanta, however, the same "deals" should also apply to attending the Atlanta show.

And for the record, no one is paying me anything. I am FOR the Atlanta (or New York, or frameFest, or ANY other show.) So please don't label anything I posted as being derogatory towards the Atlanta show. I am PRO-framer. I post what I do because I think it would be foolish for one to say that they won't attend the biggest/largest educational venue and trade show because there is "another" show to attend.

Sure, I teach for PPFA and PFM and Larson-Juhl and at other framing venues around the US. DECOR does not owe me (or my wife) any money for any of the writing we did for them. I wrote for DECOR for many years and taught at all of their shows. I also consult for Tru Vue (and have for Crescent). None of which influences my opinion.

I make my living framing pictures. My fellow instructors do as well. I don't believe any of us are telling anyone what to do, but rather, sharing what we have found that has made us successful.

It's funny how so many belittle what people like Jay Goltz or Ken Bauer or William Parker have to offer. Do you think they need to teach? Or that any instructor is getting rich by doing so (at ANY venue)? (except for me because I have a yacht payment coming up) I think what I have learned from them (as an attendee in their classes and reader of their articles) is the single reason I have been successful.

Hey Ed- you live in Maryland. Did you attend the New York DECOR show? What about the WCAF in prior years? Were you are frameFest?
 

Ylva

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"These days, it doesn't really matter where 80% of the population lives, you hop on a plane and it takes you where you need to go. So that comment seems a bit irrelevant.
What was before the great recession is not relevant either."

Have you priced a plane ticket lately??? :popc:
I think a Decor Show in Atlanta would be wonderful and I will plan to attend if it happens!
Yes.

For me, coming from Boston, non stop flight and I haven't checked any cheap ones or other options, the difference would be $200

Not that much. That is before I do better research and/or use Rob's tricks with credit cards in which case it would not be ANY money out of my pocket.
 
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Dermot Cox-Kearns

Guest
$600 or less return from Ireland...

If I do a hotel and flight deal I could get 5 night and flights for about $1500 at the most...

You need to do a bit of planning to get good rate...

Last minute flights round trip six weeks ago was $900 dollars ....my wife did the trip to speak at a conference someone got sick and she stepped at the last moment.

Business travel like any part of business need planning and provision for a budget...it should be part of any annual planning...
 

FramerCat

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2,050


And for the record, no one is paying me anything. I am FOR the Atlanta (or New York, or frameFest, or ANY other show.) So please don't label anything I posted as being derogatory towards the Atlanta show. I am PRO-framer. I post what I do because I think it would be foolish for one to say that they won't attend the biggest/largest educational venue and trade show because there is "another" show to attend.

Sure, I teach for PPFA and PFM and Larson-Juhl and at other framing venues around the US. DECOR does not owe me (or my wife) any money for any of the writing we did for them. I wrote for DECOR for many years and taught at all of their shows. I also consult for Tru Vue (and have for Crescent). None of which influences my opinion.

I make my living framing pictures. My fellow instructors do as well. I don't believe any of us are telling anyone what to do, but rather, sharing what we have found that has made us successful.

It's funny how so many belittle what people like Jay Goltz or Ken Bauer or William Parker have to offer. Do you think they need to teach? Or that any instructor is getting rich by doing so (at ANY venue)? (except for me because I have a yacht payment coming up) I think what I have learned from them (as an attendee in their classes and reader of their articles) is the single reason I have been successful.

Hey Ed- you live in Maryland. Did you attend the New York DECOR show? What about the WCAF in prior years? Were you are frameFest?

Guilty conscience?

I did not refer to you at all. If it makes you feel better you can read what I wrote again imagining it referred to any other participant on either side of the discussion and it would most likely apply, but thank you for clarifying your background and position for those who did not know. You are an impressive man not to let your past experiences influence your opinion of an organization.

I hope you weren’t referring to me when you talk about belittling anyone in particular. I certainly was not. All I am suggesting is that there might be a stigma that is associated with certain organizations and individuals and that might be something that should be assessed. As I understand it the vast majority of framers do not attend any trade show at all so there might be a reason for that.

I have attended many of the old east coast Décor Expos. I cannot tell you the names of the people who taught the classes because I was more interested in the information than the ability to drop a name. I have always gotten most of the trade magazines so I have certainly read those articles you mention and appreciate the information. I had a critically ill family member who recently passed away so I couldn’t make it to NY this year. No, I have never attended the Vegas show but I have been looking into some of your tricks for making it more affordable. I’m just not experienced enough in travel to have figured out the credit card schemes on my own. In fact I have never been on a plane. I’m not a PPFA member so I didn’t find out about Frame Fest until the week before, but I am hoping to go to the next one. Last night we were researching the cheapest and least terrifying way to get there.

Also, Jennifer is in TN so she could easily drive to Atlanta or hitch a ride with another east coast framer. So it would be at the very least a little less of a hassle for her than using one of your credit card schemes. BTW putting it in green does not make it less disrespectful.

Ed
 
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