Excuse me while i pour out a little more WHINE


SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Founding Member
Nov 23, 1997
Mandeville, LA USA
I just got the first bank statement for my shop since the hurricane. Much to my surprise there where debits on it ,even though I haven't been open since Aug .28 ,2005. But more shocking was what they were for. One was for merchant services and the other was for PMT lease.Both of these ( which were $29.00 and $24,27 respectively) have apparently been being deducted from my account on a monthly basis since the storm.

In an effort to clear this up I called my bank who advised me to go to my nearest branch .When I arrived there they found that these fees where being deducted by two other companys one for the processing of my credit card charges and the other for the lease of the card processing equipment.

I also had a $12 fee being charged by the bank for the processing of the account which after they heard the circumstances they refunded gladly. The bank also contacted the other two companies banks and got their phone numbers, since I lost all records in my shop and I have not been contacted by anyone since the storm since no mail can be deliverd to any location in St.Bernard.

When I called the processing company they were very understanding and agreed to refund the fees in appx. 7 working days to the same account from which they withdrew them.

However when I called the leaseing company "Golden Eagle" of N.Y. ,N.Y. they refused to refund anything and even more said they would continue to charge me until I returned the equipment.
I said they obviously didn't understand ,but due to the storm I no longer had the equipment and I felt it totaly unfair to be charged leaseing fees for something I didn't have and loss through no fault of my own and by an act of GOD.

They said they didn't care that in the contract if they weren't returned the equipment or I didn't BUY OUT the contract for $118.80 or pay the deductable of $200.00 they would continue to charge me even though they knew I had nothing. In fact they said since My wife's name was on the lease they would charge her personally in the event the company was disolved.

I told them that I found their attitude was very unethical and might just be prosicuteable by the Attorney General of La. They said they didn't care and the only way they'd stop chargeing is if I paid eiher of the two previously mentioned fees and even when I did they wouldn't refund a dime.

I decided to pay the buy out Under protest and I advised them that I would be fileing a offical complaint with the Attorney General's office as soon as I got off the phone with them ,which I did while nameing everyone I could .

Sorry for the displaying of poor business savy but these are very trying times and this was just a point I forgot ,especially when I recived No notice from anyone even my own BANK in 4 months.

But I hope my ignorance and misfortune can help to teach some one of you what not to do or what to expect from some others.
Wouldn't it be neat to drain the account then tell them "good luck with the auto draft. Let me know how that works out for you."
Thank you for sharing issues like this with us Buddy.

I don't think this or any of the things you've shared with us in the past few months can be called "poor business savy" or "ignorance" as you put it. "Misfortune"...yes. I would wager that 90% of us would have the same issues (or more!) had we been in Katrina's path.

Hang in there Buddy!

This is beyond the pale. Those idiots should be really taught a lesson.

Please make sure you contact the DA / AG and see if you can somehow publicize this issue. These bloodsuckers shouldn't be in business.

Also, contact the Better Business Bureau.
Reader's Digest has a lot of pull! Their "That's Outrageous" section is rife with similar claims.
Shame them on a national scale, and they'll capitulate.
Buddy-I can't begin to think that I would know where to start if the same happened to me. If I had to list everything that I would need to cancel, change , notify i would be missing a bunch, I'll bet.

One thing I wouldn't miss is remembering who the jerks were

Not that it would do a whole lot but have you ever thought about contacting the Today Show, Good Morning America, 20/20 or any other national news show to tell them your story and how companies have treated you?

I am sure that there are others who have but you never know what would happen and it sure would expose some of these scum for who they are.
I have always wondered why the bankcard processing business has to be run by such a sleazy bunch of SOBs. Nine out of ten of these people are the scum of the earth.

Gee... that felt good!

The sad thing is, this same thing is being repeated probably 2,000 or more times....

Think of all the little mom & pop business that were riff through out NO. Buddy is just lucky enough to have an international family to share his frustration with.

Buddy, take those ******* down.

[did I put enough "*" in there?]
Hey Buddy does your area have like a local news team that does a ten on your side type of thing? Where if you have been wronged in an obvious way that the news could go to these people and hound them until they did the right thing? Just the bad publicity would make them want to fix it.

A thought, sorry that this happened and at such a bad time
stud d,

Buddy lived in New Orleans. In st Berarnard and Ninth ward, they are luchy if they have a street light that works.

News crews??? That would be the hit and run national news guys.

This is a city area that the city is getting ready to knock down 12,000 homes because nobody lives there anymore.

The leasing <srike>pricks</strike> company, is in New York... about 1,800 miles away and light years away from human compassion.

Hope I didn't come off to rough here, but thems the conditions...
I am sorry. In this area they have a local news cast that will take on this type of case to get publicity. I am not sure if they would due something outside the area-you are right...I was just trying to think of anything that might help. Sorry I was just throwing something out there, no harm meant i assure you.
Why don't you give us all their phone number? They might be impressed with 50 or so phone calls from merchants telling them that if they don't do right by Buddy, then they sure as H won't have a chance of snagging us as customers.
I'm really sorry to say I'm not surprised by any of this.

Leases and leasors can be nasty. After RCI, the company that made the Mat Maestro CMC, went belly-up, I talked to dozens of framers who were leasing machines from third-party leasing companies. Some of them had not even received a CMC. Some had non-working ones. Some had sent machines back for repairs - never to see them again. The lucky ones had working CMCs with no available parts or service.

Every single one of them were locked into a lease and were fighting them.

I'm certainly not suggesting it's right, but I wouldn't expect a lot of compassion from a leasing company, whether it's an Act of God in New Orleans or an act of greed in Seattle.
Golden Eagle Leasing sold all it's assests (presumably including it's leasing contracts) to Northern Leasing (NLS) and is located in New York.

Here's a listing of it's top personnel from their web site:

Jay Cohen President 212.239.3500 Jay.Cohen@northernleasing.com

Steve Bernardone VP, Chief Information Officer 212.216.8206 Steve.Bernardone@northernleasing.com

Sam Buono VP, Collections / Customer Service 212.457.8404 Sam.Buono@northernleasing.com

Rich Hahn VP,Sales 212.216.8500 Richard.Hahn@northernleasing.com

Sara Krieger VP, Operations 212.216.8202 Sara.Krieger@northernleasing.com

Dinesh Kulangroth VP Finance 212.457.8488 Dinesh.Kulangroth@northernleasing.com

Harry Roth VP, Asset Management 212.216.8258 Harry.Roth@northernleasing.com

Allan Bey Director, Facilities 212.457.8442 Allan.Bey@northernleasing.com

John Fragos Director, IT 212.216.8334 John.Fragos@northernleasing.com

Gilbert Levine Controller 212.216.8222 Gilbert .Levine@northernleasing.com

Natalie Nance Director, Human Resources 212.216.8212 Natalie.Nance@northernleasing.com

Isaac Taylor Manager, Asset Management 212.216.8260 Isaac.Taylor@northernleasing.com

Dave Brunette Accounting Operations Manager 212.216.8238 Dave.Brunette@northernleasing.com

Dalton Jenkins Assistant Controller 212.216.8220 Dalton.Jenkins@northernleasing.com

Reshma Kamath Manager, IT Programming 212.216.8340 Reshma.Kamath@northernleasing.com

Bob Kaplan Telephony Services Manager 212.216.8266 Robert.Kaplan@northernleasing.com

Michael Rodriguez Manager,Network Services 212.216.8226 Miguel.Rodriguez@northernleasing.com

Dorothy Szabo Manager, Collections 212.216.8246 Dorothy.Szabo@northernleasing.com

Amy Tanguay Manager, Portfolio Compliance 212.457.8564 Amy.Tanguay@northernleasing.com

Dave Makielski


"Treat others as you would have them treat you."
Here is a copy of the email I sent to their customer service VP and copied to their president. We'll see what their response is if any.

Subject: Is this true???

I've copied and posted a thread from an international forum of independent small business owners involved in the custom framing industry. I feel you should have an opportunity to respond to these allegations.

Here is a link to the thread:


Dave Makielski
Maryann's approach is the correct one.

Please, everyone e-mail as a deluge of mail will show our concern.

Dave Makielski
We had a similar experience with an equipment leasing company when we opted to discontinue accepting credit cards. The company refused to stop its monthly charge and kept it up for three months after notification. You need a cooperative bank for the next steps--either close out the account and open a new one with a new account number or have the bank issue a stop payment order. It works. Our company would not accept the return of the equipment. I still have the equipment collecting cob webs.

Jack Cee
It just amazes me on how low some companies can go. This is probably the lowest I have ever heard of. Buddy, I hope your able to make their life as miserable as they are trying to make yours. Hopefully the Attorney General will take some action on your behalf. (along with a few e-mails to this sleezeball company from the rest of us)

To be realistic, this is not the lowest or sleaziest company on the face of the earth. Buddy has probably reached a worthless drone not wanting to take the extra step and do a little bit of extra work. We've all dealt with people like that in business.

My hope is when Mr. Cohen receives numerous emails, he takes the necessary steps and does what any humane person would do- in business or otherwise.

Keep your emails civil or we just become a bunch of crackpots.
I think it is time for Buddy to get his Bank involved. A new account number might be the easiest course of action to protect his assets.

I think MaryAnn offers a very good way to feel better, but I doubt that after a few emails (if they don't respond) that all that will happen is thedelete button being used about 500 times.

Want to get their attention? make sure no funds are available. As long as that monthly fee gets paid, there is really no motivation for hem to do anything accept count the money
After initial revulsion at the situation and reading all the supportive suggestions, I have a question about Bob's last post. It sounds like the best way but is it legal? Could Buddy get into more trouble by have the charge returned as "Insufficient Funds"? This company sounds like it would not hesitate to then nail him for that as well.

Bob, is it legal to do what you say?
Cathie-I am no lawyer and don't even play one on the Grumble. But, years ago, we had one of those auto withdrawal that turned sour. I screamed and held my breath but every 23rd another $127.32 was deducted.

The bank said they were required to honor the signed form on file even though it was my money. Then she smiled and said "But, if your account number was different..."

Now, make no mistake, if you have a debt, it can be enforced. The key here is to change the playing field.

As long as the lessor gets paid on cycle, there is hardly any motivation to even discuss the situation. Yet, if that gravy train coupon clippin' goes away, i am pretty certain that you will get someone's attention. At least, with that new found attention, Buddy just might get a more sympathetic assessment

And, I would do that if more "civil" attempts to resolve this fail

But, never accept anything stated on an open forum as anything close to legal advice. To answer Cathie's post, I am certain that the company is well within their legal rights to collect on the agreement. I'm sure they paid the equipment provider a reduced fee and bought the contract. They now want to collect in full

I am guessing that at some point they might feel it wiser to mitigate this contract, but not as long as they are recovering automatically

Again, I am no lawyer and, if I remember, Cathie's husband was an attorney. Perhaps he might have a private suggestion?
I am in awe of all the support and suggestions I am getting .I actually thought of some of them myself.

But i think some of you missed a few parts of my post. These very nice ,by the book/Contract peopel said they would attach the personal funds of My wife marie since she was the one who signed the contract ,in the event that the Business no longer exsisted. from that I would assume that they would do the same if the assets of Needles and Knots disappeared.

Next they already have collected $24.75 for September,October, Novenber ,december and as of January 3 for taht month also.Taht amounts to $123.75 already and they are threating to continue until i either pay the Deductable of $200.00 or pay the lease buy out of $118.80.
The point some of you missed is i opted to stop their withdrawals by paying the buy out on my credit card and asking that my comments be recored or noted while i clearly stated that i felt this was unjust since they had never contacted me nor notified me nor had my bank and it was common knowledge that my area was envoleved in the Katrina Floods .Also noteing that they didn't see any transaction for 4-5 months I felt they should have at least been suspicious.

Their answer was that some of their clients do SEASONAL trade and only use their equipment during certain months so they weren't singled to any strange happenings and everthing is done on computer so IT doesn't know about any natural disaters.

I then advised them that i felt what they were doing was at least Unethical and under the recent guidelines of the Louisiana Attorney General it may just be ILLEGAL and i would be offically notifing them of what had transpired.

I have Filed Online and since the form is rather small I have about 2-3 phone calls into the Consumer advocates mediatetors office and I do intend as i said i would see if they can Prosicute them for Gougeing or Takeing advantage of a disater situation.

I don't know if anything will come of it But i do intend to try. But I can't stop accont since the other refunds are still being returned to it and they will just sue Marie if i do. So i choose to stop them on their own terms and file after the fact.

Once before ,a long time ago I had a disagreement with the IRS. I new they had made some errors so I refused to pay them. they took my protest underadvisement and it took about a year or two to settle. the only draw back was that what little I di owe ( no where near what they claimed originally) was charged interst and penalties for the entire time and the payout came to almost the same. when i asked How that was fair they insisted i should have paid the claim and appealed which would have stopped them from being able to charge the interst and penalties. I am not sure i would have ever got my money back but they had the upper hand. So to i feel these NICE? people do. so i have complied and processed as close to a law suit as I can for a mere $118.80 or $300.

However if the AG sees it my way i will ask for the harshest repercutions I can get.

But I am deeply touched at all your efforts especially since all I wanted to do was point out how unscruplious some firms can be.
Thanks agin and I'll let you know what the AG says.
Buddy-You are right, I didn't read every post completely

I think you took the smart way out by just getting it over with

A couple of good lessons to remember

Read thoroughly and sometimes throwing a little money at a problem will make it go away
I am bring this to the top once agin to let all of you know that I have been in contact with an Attorney from the Louisiana Attorney General's Office and he is takeing this under advisement and may be going to contact this company. I told him that very detail explanation of mine, appeared on TFG as well as some very helpful suggestions and some very indicative feelings from other small business people especially Framers.

So to that end I have FWd this thread to him as well as some special excerpts.

You see Bob, I don't think throwing money at a problem is the best remedy. However some times in order to stop a problem from snowballing it helps while you contact the Highest authority available.
I wonder what Golden eagle will say to Mr. Johnson,and wether it will be as cocky as they were when they spoke to me? I 'll let you know if there is any interest.
Buddy - my heart goes out to you, I can't image...

What is happening with other type of leases for equiptment, or even car leases? How those companies handling their product lines may add leverage (or not).

Just can't imagine
Best wishes
I just had this response to my email last week. You may want to give her a call and possibly end it! Good luck

Hi Maryann;
I am trying to resolve this issue I need more information from your friend.


Elba Peralta
Customer Service Supervisor
Northern Leasing Systems, Inc
132 W 31st St 14th Floor
New York, NY 10001
212-457-8401 Phone
212-457-8411 Fax
Thank you Maryann and everyone else.
However just to update the situation, I just called Ms. Peralta.

She asked for my account number ,to which I explained that she was touching on the heart of the problem. By this I meant that I ahd NOTHING associated with the terminal and especially it's lease agreement i.e. paper contracts. So there would be absolutely nothing that I could tell her about the terms of the contarct and no way in which I could return anything and none of this was my fault,since I had not received ANY correspondence from them nor even My own Bank for almost 4 months.

She then consulted my records and asked had I paid for the machine .At first I thought what she was refering to was did I buy the terminal as opposed to leaseing it.Then she explained that she was speaking about the Buy -Out that I made with my credit card for $118.80 from their billing office's Ms. Tunsia Simmons ( a Supervisor) who told me that the only way to stop the withdrawals was to either buy it out or pay the deductable or the withdrawals would continue till dooms day. Ms. Simmons even told me that if the Company was liquidated she would attach the earnings of my wife as she had signed the lease.

I told her that I did this under protest in an attempt to stop the withdrawls which had amounted to more than the Buy -out already for equipment I didn't have. I also told Ms. Peralta that when I was forced to do so I had told Ms. Simmons I would contact the La. AG and did.

Ms Peralta told me that her company's offical position was that all Katrina Victoms had only to supply a letter expalining the situation to terminate the lease. I told her that Ms. Simmons made NO mention of the letter and said she would even attach my wife's earnings till I did one of the above opptions even after I told her that I was adviseing the AG who could consider her actions Illegal.

Ms. Peralata said she didn't have Ms Simmons in her office but would consult her supevisors about the handling and would return the call later.

It seems Ms. Simmons overstepped her authority and failed to follow already arrange Katrina processing proceedures.

I guess this is not too different from the way many power hungry billing supervisors handle their job.

I will let you know of Ms. Peralta's Supervisor's decision.
But thanks agiain to all especially Maryann Shirk.
Sorry to bother ya'll again. however it seems whenever i think i have made a step forward i find myself taking two backwards. i also am learning some things that if it weren't happening to me I never would belive from anyone else. so with that said let me tell you the latest devlopments in the Golden eagle saga.

when i called Ms. peralta i thought everything was resolved,WRONG. It seems she consulted with her Depatment manger ( Customer service) who FWD Maryann's eamil to the Contract/leaseing departmants manager/Tunsia Simmon's super ( Isaac Taylor ) and i even gave him a few calls. None of which have yet been returned. then I contacted Ms. peralta again and she all but washed her/and the department's hands of any responsibility ,saying it was up to Mr. taylor to decide.

then just today i received a copy of the original lease as it was written by EDR on Nov. 8,1999 from none other then Golden eagle ( now DBA Norther leaseing) and on it it said that the amount of monthly payments were $20.00 not the $24.75 they have been deducting and it further said that the LEASE TERMS were 48 months .This would seem to idicate that on Nov. 8 ,2003 the lease would be meet and completed. This might well explain why we had put it out of our mines and thought it was paid for ( especially with out any contact from them or any records to view thanks to Katrina).

But alas that is also wrong according to Golden Eagle and Ms. peralta who say that if after 30 days of the completeion date ( Nov.8 2003) We don't send them in writting a letter with in 30 days of the lese's completion date, stateing that
we wish for it to end they reserve the RIGHT to CONTINUE the withdrawals . Not doesn't hat sound like the most ridiculs thing you can imagine and also the biggest double standard.

They insist that they can't be expected to know who of thir leases is in the hurricane arae but they expect the lesee to notify them with in 30 days to stop the withdrawals or they have the right to continue even though the terms have been mett and some how at a higher rate then was agreed to.

They also say that one department isn't obliged to complie with what another states is company policy.

In escence they claim unless we stop them in wrighting they can do what ever they wish and they can treat one lese different than another on the basis of receiveing a letter that they don't need to make sure you know of.

Needles to say I have now FAXED ALL the copies of Leases and bank statements as well as the same explantions I have given you amd requested that Mr. johnsin prosicute them for any and all possible charges.

However ithough some of you might find these terms as unbeliveable and enlightening as they are irrateing As I have .I also hope they while you are checking your Insurance exclusions you are also reviewing the lenghty fine print of all your leases. ( it was so small i doubt that it might be readable by Mr. Johnson.
Lawyers and Credit Card machine companies ..... may they all Fry In H*ll.

(And what's with the asterisks for a word like "Aitch-EE-El-El" ... we all know what the word is ...do the asterisks do anything besides look silly????)
FramingFool please try to remember your manors .I have sent this sam thread to the Mediator at the Louisiana Attorney General's office who is when last i checked an ATTORNEY ,as are some of the spouses of some of our numbers .All of whom are trying their very best to be helpful .
Buddy, when I leased the equipment, I was sent a form that explained my lease would be XX dollars per month. I was given 15 days to prove that I had insurance to cover the loss of the leased product. I immediately faxed a copy of my insurance to them. Had I not done that, a fee (for insuring the equipment)amounted to about the same amount as the overage each month that you referred to. This amount would have been added to my monthly lease agreement. Could that have been the problem?
Janet in all fairness I really don't know and I must admitt that in some ways that is my fault. Not because WE didn't listen when Marie signed the lease. WE really don't rememeber what was said . But I can show you the original that clearly states that the LEASE TERMS are 48 months at $20. But mostly because when I pointed out this discrepency to Ms. Peralta of CS I didn't allow her to explain anything since I had heard enough of their Double talk and I wasn't in a mood to listen. So WHY? I really don't have a clue. Do I think it is fair or what We agreed to. H3LL NO!! And I throughly trust neither will Mr. Jonson of the La. AG office either. Along with their ability to continue to withdraw until I tell them to stop or pay a fee .

I mean ,give me abreak! Have you ever heard of a contract that was never ending unless the leasee submitted in writting with 30 days of it's COMPLETION an agreement to stop the lease and if not required a BUY-out or deductable payment to terminate the contract that had already been satisfied? And then I was expected to accept the increase in monthly premiums as OK just because they said so. I don't think so.But then Maybe the ATTORNEYS will determine if that sort of contract is legally binding. All I am saying is be very careful.Especially if the leaseor is Northeren /Golden Eagle.

By the way Northern took over Golden Eagle long after any 30 days after Nov.8 1999 and I am still looking for a Lease Number that matches the one they gave me. So I am not sure at all that we are talking about the same lease as the ORIGINAL that they sent me a copy of and was signed back in 1999.
Buddy, please understand that I'm not arguing with you. I'm following EVERYTHING you're saying and agreeing w/you 100%. I was just trying to explain why the actual w/drawal from your acct. ea. month might be different from what the signed agreement says. I'm in your corner on this and hope all of us are learning an excellent lesson.
Janet I took no different opinion. I just felt that my actions needed some explanations.

ALL of you have been extremely supportive and helpful. I am ,in my own confused way, trying to return the favor.

It is just that I have a major problem with anyone who says one thing and does something else ,especially when in a written contract. But even more so when they want to hold me accountable for things they change without even consulting or notifiying me. To me that is a gross "Breach of Contract" and one awfull double standard.Hopefully Mr. Charles Johnson ESQ. of the Louisiana Attorney General's Mediator's Office will agree.

So I guess I got caught up in feeling turn about is fair play.
Please accept my apology for my poorly worded reply,and my lack of inquiring as to WHY they didn't do what the contract said.

On a different note the insurance issue is another can of worms. Hartford assured me that Equipment left in my "Care ,Custody and Control" were in deed covered .In fact I was given definet assurances that my Wizard was ( it even was listed with them as being as such)and then they said that endorsement was voided because of FLOODING. So was the terminal covered? As much as the Wizard was and neither of us would have had any other opinions.Wizard and I didn't .

I guess this is just beginning to sound like repertition. SORRY!But then that is what I am warnning all about.
Last week I emailed the CEO of the company. He obviously cared enough to forward it to Ms. Peralta instead of just hitting a delete button.

If I were you - and I'm glad I'm not because I don't think I could handle what you're handling -I would get out my magic pen and write him an email telling him what's going on in his company. He needs to know. Keep it logical, civil and non-threatening. If he's any kind of man, you should get results.

Meanwhile, do what you have to do with the Attorney General's office. I wouldn't let up with that at all.

Good luck. :mad:
Originally posted by BUDDY:
I mean ,give me abreak! Have you ever heard of a contract that was never ending unless the leasee submitted in writting with 30 days of it's COMPLETION an agreement to stop the lease and if not required a BUY-out or deductable payment to terminate the contract that had already been satisfied?
Unfortunately, yes. I think that is pretty typical, no doubt because the nature of a lease is to perpetuate. The fact that many lessors have used the lease agreement as a financing tool doesn't change the basic purpose of it. We once leased a piece of equipment with a one dollar buyout. After five years (the terms of the lease) we were presented with an option of paying a bill of $8000 or continuing our $1700 monthly payment. Thankfully we were able to reslove it, but not without more than a few moments of raised blood pressure.
Ack!!! Northern Leasing.....I am familiar with them. You story is very much like my own. When I closed my business nearly 3 years ago, I had a terrible time dealing with them. Sadly, I didn't even know I was dealing with them. I had signed a lease with a sales rep who was local. The rep stopped by regularly to see if everything was okay. He had given me his phone number for any problems. It all worked out great. However, I was paying $80.00 a month. By the time I closed, I had been well past that last...nearly 2 years.

Enter Northern Leasing, read Buddy's story, continued bank drafts.....etc. They did say that they sent me a letter about a buy out that was to be returned to them 30 days after the experation of the lease. I don't remember any such letter, but then, I didn't know I was doing business with them either.

I ended up doing just what Buddy did, paying out several hundred $$$, I did send the machine back, and closed the account so that they could not take any more mone out. After closing the account, they were calling my home phone so much that I stopped answering the phone or, if I did answer, I told they had the wrong number.

Northern Leasing.....Bad News.

I recommend anyone using a credit card machine to go through a local bank.

Buddy, I really feel for you.
David I am glad you have informed me and everyone ,other than Candy maybe, about what some or maybe all leaseing agents do. I have never leased anything before,with the exception of the "RENTAL" agreement I had with Wizard.

Not to be plugging anyone but they were and are so easy to deal with I guess I was spoiled into beliveing all others would be as Fair and Understanding.

I also guess that is why Wizard refers to their agreement as a "rental" and not a lease like some other CMCs who use third parties. But come to think about it ,it bore no resemblance to this double talk so maybe it is indeed a rental.Even if it isn't I'd do everything I could if I were Wizard to seperate my Company's name and reputation from the Likes of these Conivers.

It hurts me to hear all that Buddy has been going through over the past months. Why does bad things happen to such good people? I guess that is the all time most asked questions.

This thread he started about a card machine and a leasing company really drives home the reason why you should purchase that equipment.

Just a quick tally of his monthly payments shows he has spent over $1800 for something I bought out right for $300.

I am really looking forward to hear the news that Buddy is back up and running.
Thanks Jerry ;
But I don't know that I fit that description as much as a lot of you on TFG do. However on the advise of one of those good TFG people ,I did what Maryann suggested(I emailed the CEO of the company) and I also asked him to revisit the thread which I too FWD to him in an effort to allow him to see how his suggestion to speak to Ms. Peralta and how the manager of the contract/Lease departmet ( Mr. Taylor) has thus far not returned my calls.

Alas thus far it seems to have been for naught since he has not returned any email or call either.

I tried not be threating as Maryann suggested but I also told him that unlike what appears in the thread I 'd really rather deal directly with him. However I had already contacted the AG of La. office before sending him the updates.

However I guess if he got two messages one signed Maryann and another signed CHARLES who had made a lot of dispargeing comments and had sought the assitance of the AG he probaly wouldn't be too inclined to speak to me and would be very willingly rewplied to the fair maryann who was trying to help someone else.

But maybe I am just too anxious and need to give him a little more time.

However your point is well taken about which method would have been better.Why even what I thought Marie had agreed to ( 48 payments at $20, would have still come to $960 and while it was spread out over 4 years, you were finished when you paid the $300.It's just that I had no idea that they could continue to charge unless I told them to stop after the completion of the agreed term .

In fact I am still not sure that is completly legal since it didn't get told to us at any time in the signing .I will be very interested to see what Mr. Johnson of the AG and Mr. Cohen of Northern have to say about this when either of them speak to me or each other.
PS Jerry that figure should have been $1900 and change and only because I paid the BUY-OUT even if it was under protest and just think what it would be if i had paid the $200 deductable instead.
That company, Northern leasing, has, based on Dave's post, eighteen top people on it's payroll. Who knows how many people the company employs all together.

My guess is that they are desperate for your $24.27 every month, and can not afford to lose it. I think if you do not pay them, chances are good every one of those poor people will end up out of work. Things are so tight for them that the original leasing company had to sell out.

It is entirely possible, that by losing your $24.27 per month, a ripple affect will spread through our entire economy. Why all of us could be out of work as a result.

What a conundrum, what shall we do. I know, lets all call our great president Bush, he will know what to do.

OK, I'll try to get serious now. Why not get one of those northern law firms involved. Find a firm that wants some media exposure and will take your case at no charge.

John I feel fairly confidentthat you are trying to lighten up a really trivial problem. However the amount of money is in deed very minor. Why, most of us spend that much for a good meal at one of the finer resturants.

And threatening the Northern leaseing company with intervention of the AG of La. may actually be the reason for their ignoring my request.

But My point was to make others as uniformed as I more aware of what can happen ,while at the same time not doing what Bob said and just throughing some MONEY at the problem.

Money which I truly don't have and which means very little to a company like them.But most importantly Money which they are deducting from my banking account with out notifing me and then threating me in order to cause me to have to pay them to stop what I feel they had no right to in the first place.

All in all this is a very trivial issue but at the risk of allowing some one to take what I feel is mine I will do what ever short of makeing a national news issue of it. I am very sorry to have annoyed you or anyone else on TFG .But trivial annoyances like this are continually being purpitrated on Katrina surviors still. Only some are not so trivial and will kep being made until some realize that their are those who will even kick you when you are down.
PS One more Cliche:"The number of times someone will use you for a floor mat is directly proportional to the number of times you lie down in front of them."
Buddy, I think you misinterpreted my post. The object of my trivialization was not you, it was the leasing company.

How could they possibly say no to you unless they are desperate for money or are complete jerks?

I'm a picture framer, $24.00 a month is a serious expense, especially if your shop is closed.

As I was attacking the leasing company, I got to thinking, your business is probably not the only one in New Orleans that they are screwing over. That is the reason I suggested calling a few of those New York Law Firms. Or the New York bar association to get a referral.

This could prove to be a highly publicized class action suit. Sorry if I did not make my sarcasm clear.

John I have no problem with either purpose you could have intended.I do feel this thread is in need of some lighter moments but from here they are few.
I also do feel that the expense I am incurring is minor in the scope of some operateing cost I have seen others here post. In fact I have often felt that my budgeting was very often "penny wise and dollar foolish",as in the comparison that Jerry sighted.

I do agree that some companys ( third party leaseors esp.)do use tricker and bait and switch to fake us out.

It is exactly this principle that I find totaly unacceptable along with the wolf in sheep's clothing ploy. But the method I intend to use is to have soemone else investigate and to have the La. AG 's mediator's office contact them offically. I had hoped that I could discover that this was a matter of a attendant just over stepping their authority and that it would be rectified as soon as their superiors where notified. However this doesn't seem to be happening .Not as yet any way.

I was going to say I didn't want to make this a "Federal case" in the nature of a bad pun ,but it seems that is almost exactly what I have had to do. I have just received a letter from Mr. Johnson of the AG office stateing that while they can't act as my private Attorney they will be contacting the company in an effort to mediate the disagreement and when they get a response they will inform me of Northern's position,while informing Northern of what the AG feels is fair.

I opted to pay the Buy-Out fee on my credit card only as a last ditch effort for a few reasons . First as I have explained,I have had a similar experiance with the IRS and after refuseing to pay them ,I ultimately won the argument but was charged the interst and penalties for all the time I could have stopped the process while awaiting a mediation. To that extent I didn't want to give these people more to argue with.

Next I used my credit card because it was immediate and also because it made a written record not only with me but with another party whom could also be drawn into the fray.

I may loose eventually but I will not pay any further charges and I will make a definet Legal statement with the AG 's participation. I would ,as many of you have suggested, wish I could smear Northen's Unfair policys all over the world but I don't have the clot and I doubt that in the scope of what is being perpitrated in the Katrina area ,this is truly small potatoes.

While I appreciate the support and concern all you have given me ,belive me there are many others suffering much worse unfair treatments,by debtors ,insurance companies ,and even some Governmental agencies.
I have also discovered recently that some of the things being blamed on agencies like FEMA may actually be being caused by money grabbing Contractors who claim to be helpping everyone while they are giving preferential treatment to the Deepest pokects.

There was even recent arrest made of dayworkers who were hired to gut houses in a wealther neighborhood and where caught looting those same houses of what salavgeable posseions that where in the dabree. Only after one of the looters saw the lady whose posseions they had stolen crying did he feel some remorse and name several others who where doing the same.

So while I am sighting a small problem with a big company like Northern ,there are gulity parties in all levels even among some of the victims who are useing their remaining wealth to recieve preferential treatment over others who sustained the same losses and don't have the blessings of their wealth.

In essence GREED knows no special group,it is true of whom ever wants more than they have a right to.
All I want is to be treated fairly and honestly and I think a due examination will prove this lease arangements and it's withdrawals is anything but.

And I further hope that some who may be as gullable and uninformed as I can benefit from my experiences which ever way they turn out.And that everyone away from here realizes that the RECOVERY is a long way from being over and for some reasons cause by GREED on all levels even private individuals.
there are many others suffering much worse unfair treatments,by debtors ,insurance companies ,and even some Governmental agencies.
If you want to have your eyes opened, go to www.nola.com and page down to Forums. It's a bulletin board for New Orlean area residents.

Buddy, our prayers are with you and others every day. Hopefully, you are on your feet soon.