Electronic Ordering from your Suppliers

Troy Heitmeyer

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Posts
8
Loc
Mt. Vernon, IL
Many of the existing Point of Sale software programs on the market right now have the ability to send orders electronically directly to your suppliers. Many of the suppliers in the industry also have shopping carts on their websites that allow you to place orders on-line.

I was wondering how many of the forum folks take advantage of this electronic capability, whether it be directly out of your POS system or using the shopping cart. What are the advantages of doing so? What are the reasons you choose not to use the capability of you dont?

There is more to this question, as most of you probably guess, I'm just trying to get a sense of why the retailers in the industry do or do not use electronic ordering if that capability exists, and what some of the +/- may be.

Troy Heitmeyer
Computer Management Asst. Co.
 
Troy,

I'm guessing that you have been disappointed in the response to your new SCI development. I can't say why, but I can confirm from my own experience that picture framers as a whole have been very slow to adopt computers, and even slower to look at ecommerce.

The only technology that I've seen fairly widespread usage on is the fax machine.

And I don't need someone to point out the results of the latest Grumble poll about how computer savvy we all are. First, notice that out of 2800 "users" registered on TG, only 152 participated in that poll....
 
David,

No disappointment at all. The response we have received on it, both on the retail and supplier side, is actually pretty encouraging and our efforts are continuing. There is a HUGE opportunity for the framing industry as a whole to change the way they do business, save money, increase customer service, and provide a level of service to their customers that has never before been possible. There is also a HUGE educational process that needs to happen in the industry to allow everyone to see these benefits and BELIEVE them. I'm just trying to find what the issues are for those who do and do not utilize electronic ordering.

I agree with your statement about the picture framing industry and technology though, 150%. We've been supplying software and technology to the picture frame suppliers for nearly 25 years and its a tough sell. However, once people see how technology can help their business, and are not AFRAID of it, or they UNDERSTAND it, they adopt it very quickly and continue to enhance the capability they have, almost going to the point of DEMANDING more.

I truly think that once people see what the benefits are to them and their customers they will start to come around. Besides, it doesnt cost them anything to start. CMAC will continue to educate the industry and is eager to teach people what we've learned, and how that can apply to thier businesses.

Troy
 
If available, I order online. I like to take orders all week, then place my orders to enable completion the following week. That means I often want to place my orders on the weekends. Most of my moulding vendors have accommodations.

I do not let my POS order for me, because I do not use it for inventory control.

Also, it just can't know when I might want five of something instead of one, or when I want to order a join cause the moulding's impossible, or if I want to order short length because 3 people ordered the samething, or ... I think you get the idea.
 
I definitely think it would be a great advantage to be able to order directly through the POS.

But my current POS doesn't support it. What other POS you have in mind that do that? And does it really work?

The last thing you want is to order through your POS and your rush order is lost in cyber-****!
 
Troy,

I work in the IT field full-time and do framing part-time so I would love to be able to do all my ordering electronically. I try to take advantage of all of my vendors that offer this and definitely favor the ones that do. It significantly decreases the chance for inaccuracy when compared to phoning in an order. It also allows me to order at any time of day and on any day without having to wait for the office to open.

Unfortunately, not too many of the moulding vendors that I work with offer this yet. I would also want to see it go a step further to be able to see which items are in stock at the time of ordering and receive notice of shipping and a tracking number. I've seen very few vendors offer this in the picture framing industry though I have not specifically sought them out either.

I just got my POS so I'm not sure yet if it offers electronic ordering but I will check now that this has been mentioned. The only reason I would not do this is that currently, I have to call in my orders to be able to check availability and ask any necessary questions.

On my end, I would also like to allow my customers to place orders electronically. This requires a web-based frame visualization application but I have yet to find anyone that sells this out of the box. This would be something similar to what is on Art.com. It seems like my only option on this is to hire a programmer to do it for me which would be very costly. If you have heard otherwise, please let me know.

Lisa
 
One thing that’s for sure David is that those that participated in the poll at least have computers:)

Troy, I can't wait for the technology to take off. I think it will. A company in Australia has just unveiled a system this year specifically for framers.

Last I heard they had every single supplier (including LJ) on board and were zipping off disks to every framer they could find.

Like David suggests, majority of the framers that received the disk has yet to even install the free software on their computer.

I find this totally mind numbing. I have had the privilege of playing with this software. I have set my self up as a supplier and received an order. It took about 5 minutes start to finish. I have installed the software and placed an order. It took about 10 minutes to install and 10 to update with dialup. After that I was searching mouldings and placing orders in minutes.

It’s truly a suite of applications specifically for framers. It has practically every single moulding image and specs on file. It allows you to search for specific styles (or widths, finishes, types) of mouldings from every company on the continent. Its lets you order and communicate with the supplier. It produces reports and confirmations on orders. They have even started to integrate visualization software that will soon lead the way for the rest.

The cost to the framer, ZERO. The only thing they ask is 2% of the price of the orders you place with the system.

Personally I think the designer of this software has lost his mind for offering all that totally free (the real kind of free not the “free” where you pay inflated yearly fees) only paying when you use one little function of the software, ordering. Their attitude toward framers who use it for everything except ordering is “great at least we are helping the industry”.

I ramble like this just to say that its been a slow process getting framers on board with software like this and the benefits are obvious. The “what’s in it for me” factor is all over the place. Things are going well for them in spite of framers who will never even put the free disk in the diskdrive.

If all your talking about is a new fancy way to place orders, I think many would have little or no interest. Create an earth moving program and you might create a little stir. But even then it will take a while.
 
Jay,

What software are you talking about??

Also, 2% of the orders I place will soon exceed the annual fee for the POS systems I've looked at, so I wouldn't assume they are being altruistic toward the framing industry out of the goodness of their hearts.
 
Thanks for the replys. I appreciate the input and the thoughts provided. Let me explain a bit about whats available and hopefully that will answer a few questions or maybe spur a bit of thought on the subject. This is not a sales pitch at all, simply an effort to educate the industry on whats available and get some feedback.

First, CMAC has been in the framing industry for over 25 years and have been working with the distribution side of the industry since inception. We have many of the larger suppliers across the country as our customers. The POS systems that are in the industry right now have the ability to transmit the daily batch of orders, or weekly batch, however you do it, electronically, to the supplier. CMAC has been working with the suppliers, our customers, to enable this communication. The order goes from the retail POS system to the supplier, and the supplier sends back and IMMEDIATE acknowledgement of the order via email. You KNOW that your order is at the supplier as you will get a COPY of it in your In-Box. On a supplier by supplier basis, depending on how far they want to take the integration, there is the ability to check stock status, shipping status, even provide the tracking number if thats desired by the supplier. The level of information coming back to you from the supplier is defined by them but it can be quite substantial and detailed if they want it to be.

In a nutshell, this is the capability we have outlined and tested with our customers. There is no reason this cant be rolled out to the entire industry TOMORROW to allow everyone to start to benefit from the capability, we just need people to get on board and START USING IT.

The frustration comes in on my part is that its kind of a Chicken and Egg scenario. Retailers want all of their distributors using it before they will start to use it. Distributors look at the number of retailers demanding it before they make the decision. Folks, it doesnt cost anything at all to START, we have to start somewhere.

If need be, I can take this conversation off line and talk to interested folks directly, this thread may have taken a turn away from the original inquiry. However, any comments on the process are truly appreciated.

Troy
 
I'm with Cliff on this one. We don't use our POS to track inventory, so it may be the case that I take an order at one location, but already have enough to fill the order at our frameshop. Another instance may be when ordering a small mat, I may have scrap on hand to fill the order and wouldnt' want to order a full sheet. Which brings up a question: Does the software take into account multiple orders of the same frame or mat that can be completed from the same stick of moulding, or sheet? For instance, if a customer orders an 11 X 14 mat of B8644, and another customer comes in and orders a 16 X 20, I can get both from one sheet, does the software take this into consideration?

If it weren't for these discrepancies, we'd probably use it to place all of our orders.
 
I use a shopping cart. I particularly like knowing when in stock, if it's discontinued and will ship while supplies last. I find it more convient than using the phone as far as my own time. It's also useful to check to get a quote, or check price updates on the POS . I wish all of my suppliers used it.
 
Just wondering what the current status and thoughts are related to this subject.
 
I used electronic ordering in my art supply business. It was a godsend. The typical order would be several hundred to several thousand different line items generated by my POS system. However these were individually SKU'd items without variables such as size or, as pointed out earlier, multiple use of remnant items such as fall outs from mats. Also, every item was tracked and inventoried in my system. Printed price stickers were supplied in the exact amount shipped and orders were checked in from the price stickers. Only when there was a discrepancy did we even refer to the packing list.

In a large production framing operation I can see that electronic ordering could be very advantageous but am not convinced it is yet practical for the majority of smaller shops.
 
Personally, I love ordering online...it is much easier and I can do it at my convience. The only problem that I have encountered with my main supplier is that they don't keep their website updated so the pricing is often wrong or they list things as available when they are not. I also have had a couple of occassions when they never received my order which left me a bit behind the eight ball since I can only get a delivery from them once a week.

I am also interested to see a response to this, after 2 years.....what has changed....
 
I'm with Cliff on this one. We don't use our POS to track inventory, so it may be the case that I take an order at one location, but already have enough to fill the order at our frameshop. Another instance may be when ordering a small mat, I may have scrap on hand to fill the order and wouldnt' want to order a full sheet. Which brings up a question: Does the software take into account multiple orders of the same frame or mat that can be completed from the same stick of moulding, or sheet? For instance, if a customer orders an 11 X 14 mat of B8644, and another customer comes in and orders a 16 X 20, I can get both from one sheet, does the software take this into consideration?

If it weren't for these discrepancies, we'd probably use it to place all of our orders.
I use the software in Australia that Jay is talking about.It is great and it is free to use.
There is no 2% usage fee that has been wiped.
The real benefit is that framers can see what has been deleted as well as sending a live message to the moulding companies regarding the order you have just placed eg. Please send moulding without any damage etc.
I am sure that Mr ronnie Ter Beek will not mind if I tell you the name of his software is FLO
(Frame Live Order)

You should see if this software is available in the USA.
 
Many of the existing Point of Sale software programs on the market right now have the ability to send orders electronically directly to your suppliers. Many of the suppliers in the industry also have shopping carts on their websites that allow you to place orders on-line.

I was wondering how many of the forum folks take advantage of this electronic capability, whether it be directly out of your POS system or using the shopping cart. What are the advantages of doing so? What are the reasons you choose not to use the capability of you dont?

There is more to this question, as most of you probably guess, I'm just trying to get a sense of why the retailers in the industry do or do not use electronic ordering if that capability exists, and what some of the +/- may be.

Troy Heitmeyer
Computer Management Asst. Co.

There was a thread a few weeks ago talking about the "frame shop of the future". Your type of software will eventually (soon I think) be the way we order supplies. It just takes people like framers that are crafty, arty, creative types longer to embrace new tech products. Also, older framers don't like change (that includes me) when we are compy doing it the old way. I think with the younger framers starting businesses, you will see a sharp increase in the use of techno software and hardware in framing applications.
 
My position hasn't changed in 4 years.

I order online whenever possible, I will not let my POS order for me for the same reasons as before. I make many ordering decision based on many variables. I don't ALWAYS order length, or chop, or join. I will often order extra of a particular mat or moulding because I use a lot of it and I am close to a magic number for a bigger discount, or ... basically NO software could factor in the variables. Sorry, ain't happening ANYTIME soon.
For example, Nurre has free shipping if you order 5 chops. Not a dollar value. So, if I have 4 chops, I order an 8 x 10 of one of their minis which costs less than the shipping, then I make a photo frame out of it. Stuff like that. No software's gonna be able to do that.

I have three vendors that support online ordering now, and use it pretty much every time.

United is the one vendor I tend to shy away from ordering online, because they haven't mastered the "it's out of stock here, but not over there problem." If it's something I am absolutely NOT in a hurry for, then I might do it online with them.

The two moulding online vendors Nurre and Studio do a nice job, now that Studio has upgraded their ordering system.

Larson's system is great. As the week goes on I might place "quotes" in the system. It remembers them all. A half hour to an hour before my "deadline" for the next truck, I review the "quotes," then release them as an order. quick and easy.
 
While all POS systems are different, the ones I've looked at all let you review the contents of an order before placing it. I use a POS for the retail side of my business and I like its ability to generate an order list based on minumum stock levels I've set. I then review the list and order those items I really need. In my case, my vendors don't support ordering from the POS so I still have to manually order the items, but I always prefer to order from an online shopping cart if available. Less chance of someone writing down a SKU wrong. I've received several items by mistake because of that happening. Some vendors will take a faxed order, but faxes can often be difficult to read and can cause errors as well. It is frustrating when vendors don't keep their websites up to date. All of them should have their websites tied to their POS or inventory systems so they are automatically updated like my website is.

My biggest complaint, and a big reason I don't have a POS for my framing, is that there is only one framing POS system available for the Macintosh. I know there are many framers using Macs, after all we are generally a creative, free spirited lot...the exact type of people that usually buy Macs. Why can't we have a choice of POS systems? I ended writing a spreadsheet in Apple Numbers that figures out pricing for me, the main reason I wanted a POS. I don't keep enough inventory of framing components to need a computer to track inventory for me, so the pricing ability was the biggest attraction to me. A day or two behind the keyboard took care of that and saved me thousands of dollars.

Jeff
 
...My biggest complaint, and a big reason I don't have a POS for my framing, is that there is only one framing POS system available for the Macintosh. ... Why can't we have a choice of POS systems? ...Jeff

Why complain when the best farming software out there happens to be the one also availble for MACS!
 
The thing I love most about computers is their flexability to those who know how to get under the hood. I've been programming since I was 12. If I don't like the features of a software package, I make my own.

I'm writing my own PoS software to handle transactions, accounting, inventory, etc. I was happy to have recently signed on with Larson Juhl and find on their website a downloadable spreadsheet of their price list. With a minor amout of reformatting, I just plugged it into my program and >poof< I generated a three page order of what I neded without having to flip thru a book a write it down.

My system generates a PO to be faxed, so the actual ordering interface goes back to the old fassioned way of getting my supplies. This is because I expect that I am a bit ahead of my suppliers in this technology, and that I'll see better results if I stick to a method that they are familiar with. However, being able to program allows me to quickly stay ahead of the changes in tech without having to wait for software developers to catch up.
 
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