Double Miter Saw Room Measurement

[Kirstie]

If you were building a saw room, how much space would you allow for one double miter saw with a dust collection system? I am looking for a minimum length and width footprint including space for the operator to work. We need to buy a double miter saw and we need to isolate it from our mat / art storage.

Thanks!

 

[FrameMakers]

It depends on how big of frames you are cutting. Depending on how large your out feed is, you need to add on 2' for the saw and at least 10' for the in feed. My out feed is 8' so I need at least 20', but have closer to 30. It also depends on what else is going to be in this room. Will the moulding be stored here too?

My moulding room is 20x22 with a small isle that runs next to the bathroom that I use for in feed. My only issue is that the doorway between my saw room and my work room is in the path of the in feed. The shop rule is if the saw is going don't open the door. If you have to open the door, do so slowly and make sure there is not a stick of moulding blocking it. Never been a problem in the 6 years we have been here.

 

[JWB9999999]

My sawroom is something like 16 feet wide, but I have doors on both sides of my saw, so effectively I can cut any length of moulding we'd get.

I sometimes receive 12 foot lengths of moulding, and you have to count some room in the middle of your saw where there is empty space to move the moulding around. So I'd say you will need at least 13 feet in one direction. But you don't have to have so much in the other direction if you always cut the moulding from that long side first. How long will your longest frame rail be? That's how much width you need in your room to cut the opposite side. Personally, I'd just say 10 feet would be my max cut rail length, so 23 feet wide ought to do it.

Maybe add in a few more feet for ease of moving things around and you are done.

PS. My sawroom doors both open outwards from the room, so I don't really have issues with the doors coming inwards towards my saw's infeed or outfeed.

 

[Kirstie]

A little confusing, I know. We have not picked a saw yet, and are trying to plan ahead. I have a proposed space that is 7.5" wide by up to about 25' long including space for a feed either side. Is 7.5' wide enough for an operator to stand with an "average" sized saw and dust collection system? The room would not have to hold moulding, but might in the future have boxed moulding stored vertically somewhere in the space.

Also, does a saw room need ventillation to the outside? This is impossible in the space.

Our chopper needs a lot of space as it is and we plan to keep it. We feed the moulding from the aisle between two moulding racks. Our longest lengths are usually 10-12 ft. We also have a Frame Square saw that we will keep for metal moulding.

Thanks.

 

[Artrageous]

Saws don't need to be vented outside, but the amount of dust given off depends on the dust collection system you use. The stronger the CFM's the less dust can escape into the surrounding areas.

Most units are no wider then 3 feet, but if you can leave room to access the rear of the machine that would be a plus. It isn't a must but anyone having to work on machine, including routine maintenance will be happier if they can walk behind the machine instead of bending under the infeed leg.

Picking a saw is important. Pistorius machines are great and readily available, but parts and service are going to be hard and the price will become even higher now that they are no longer in business.

All saws are not the same. Type of blade action (drop or hinged), size of blades (12", 14"), power supply (single phase, 3 phase) are just a few of the questions you'll want to address.

 

[BatesMotel]

I have a small shop so my saw room is about 6 feet wide and 10 feet long, the size of the bathroom. I store cut length up to 7 feet vertically at the end of the room with storage bins up top, 10 foot ceiling. The ruler of the saw is 72" and every blue moon I have to pull the saw out of the room to cut something longer. It feeds in from the door off the work table I join on. The work bench is the same height as the saw. The moulding comes in right past the under pinner which I push up against the wall when I cut. I also have a bench that would be to my back when that has a router set up on it, and is where I put all the cut pieces. The dust collector is right next to the saw and some shelves above it for storing other bins. In the corner are the cut length leftovers that stand there till I get it filed in the vertical bins. Typically the pile get so big I can't get past it before I get it put on the inventory list. I do not have any exhaust outside, the dust collector does a good job and then every quarter I get the shop vac out to get the rest of what doesn’t get sucked up. Would love to have a bigger room but the size is functional and any bigger would only be a luxury. But I do use EVERY inch of spaced in my shop.

 

[Larry Peterson]

When I replaced my chopper with an EMN-12 it fit into exactly the same space as the chopper. It has the same in feed and out feed requirements and the saw is about the same space as the chopper.

Image the chopper in the room. If you can image the chopper in there, then the saw should fit also. Mine is in an open room but the the way I have it setup, it could fit in a room your size.

In a 7.5 x 25 foot room, my biggest question is about getting the moulding into the room. If that isn't an issue, then the room size shouldn't be either.

I have my dust collector just behind the out feed and it doesn't take up much extra room. One like this one should fit easily without any extra consideration.



You don't need outside ventilation. You didn't mention if the room has air ducts for heating/AC. If it does, you should put filters over the ducts so the dust doesn't get into the other parts of the building. If it is a total enclosed room, your operators might not like all that dust as a dust collector isn't going to get it all. There will still be a lot of dust in the air.

Another question is about your joiner. I have mine setup in a tight triangle with my saw, my joiner table and my joiner all close together (kind of like you are supposed to have your stove, sink and refrigerator in a tight triangle). When I cut a piece of moulding I just turn around and put it on the joiner table for joining. You didn't mention where your joiner is, but you need to consider how you will be moving the cut moulding from the saw to the joiner (maybe you have done that already). When I had a storefront, the chopper and joiner were in separate rooms and it was always a pain.

 

[JWB9999999]

A little confusing, I know. We have not picked a saw yet, and are trying to plan ahead. I have a proposed space that is 7.5" wide by up to about 25' long including space for a feed either side. Is 7.5' wide enough for an operator to stand with an "average" sized saw and dust collection system? The room would not have to hold moulding, but might in the future have boxed moulding stored vertically somewhere in the space.

One thing you haven't mentioned is the proposed height of your ceiling. That will deffinitely impact the necessary width for the room. Say you have a length of moulding and it reaches your saw...backwards. Ooops, need to turn it around the other way. So up one end goes to the ceiling and down it comes the other way and now the moulding is facing the right direction in your saw. If your lengths are up to 12 ft long, you need to be able to manuever it around in the room in this case. The wider the room, the lower your ceiling can be and you can still flip the moulding (at an angle). And vice versa, the shorter your ceiling is, the wider you need the room's width to be.

7.5 feet should be plenty of width with a 10 foot ceiling. It may be less suitable if you fill 2 or 3 feet of your wall space with boxes of moulding, thereby reducing your manuevering room to 4 or 5 feet of width.

Also, does a saw room need ventillation to the outside? This is impossible in the space.

Not required but very beneficial. If you have no direct access to the outside, would it be possible to install a fan and some ducting in the ceiling to reach the outside? Like what you find in a bathroom. Just a thought.

 

[PaulSF]

When you look at saws, make sure you find out how to clean out all the sawdust and chunks from the inside. My Brevetti had a collection bin that pulled out from the front. That was great. The Pistorius I'm using now requires you to unscrew the back and then crawl back there and just scoop out all the junk with a trowel. Not great at all.

Another problem with the Pistorius I'm using is that if you cut off the end of a piece of moulding, and that end falls inside the saw (rather than extending out beyond the blade so you can remove it safely by hand, it will either (1) fly around inside the saw and potentially damage your saw blade, or (2) fly out of the saw at very high speed, causing a safety risk to the saw operator and anyone else around.

 

[Ylva]

Kirstie, my saw room is 6 feet wide and 25 feet long with a door on one side (going into the workshop) for mouldings over 10'. The door is placed strategically at the end of the infeed so I do have more space for some rare occasion when the moulding is longer.

Saw is on one wall; the other wall has some smaller racks to store length moulding. I have plenty space to operate the saw (as long as I keep the space clean-ish)

I have no ventilation but have dust collector system and it's never been a problem. I usually keep the door open (to the workshop, not an outside door)

 

[Jeff Rodier]

I have a proposed space that is 7.5" wide by up to about 25' long including space for a feed either side. Is 7.5' wide enough for an operator to stand with an "average" sized saw and dust collection system? The room would not have to hold moulding, but might in the future have boxed moulding stored vertically somewhere in the space.

That size is nearly identical to the space devoted to mine. My room is more than the 7.5' but has a Frame Square. v-nailer and table saw so the portion used for sawing is the same. I took the wall out at one end so all moulding is stored in the next room in horizontal bins 12'x12'x8' high and load the boxes so the rabbet is in the right direction toward the saw. Now I just need to get the forty plus boxes of moulding off the sales floor.

 

[hangupsgallery]

Hey Kirstie
Our chop area is 7ft 6in by 16. About 2 ft of that is vertical moulding storage. There is 4ft of floor space in front of the saw which is more that ample. The out take side will handle an 8ft length, the intake end is completely open to the frame shop so unlimited length. We have a dust collection vac at the far end which handles the dust problem with ease.

 

[Kirstie]

This is reallyhelpful. One more question: If the underpinner is in the same room as the saw, will the dust collection take care of enough sawdust so that it does not damage the underpinner?

 

[Jeff Rodier]

Underpinners eat sawdust for breakfast.


Expect some dust but don't worry too much about it as long as you have art areas separated from it.

 

[Warren Tucker]

Kristie, with your space situation, I'd have to have a compelling reason to introduce a double miter saw. And even then I'd probably keep the saw at another location and use it only for the compelling reason. One thing you might want to consider, if your FrameSquare saw is the Deluxe model, the Frame Square Rabbit saw (very similar) is a faster and easier saw to use. My experience is that FrameSquare saws produce very little airborn dust compared to our double miter saws. A double miter saw in a small space is going to have dust issues for the operator. Ours are all vented to the out side with Oneida Air cyclone collectors and there is still a dust problem. Also with outside venting, the saw room is under negative preassure so no very fine dust escapes and that's the dust that's really the problem. Crosscut saws produce very fine dust. BTW, I hate bag type dust collectors: every time you start them up you get an injection of the very fine dust and emptying them is no fun. I wouldn't have one in either the frame shop or the cabinet shop. In exactlly what situations do you think a double miter saw will give you an advantage over the FrameSquare?

There are air operated choppers and they produce no dust. If in your situation I wanted to have one saw dedicated to metal and another to wood (and I do but they are both double miter saws) I'd use the FrameSquare for wood and the double miter saw for metal where dust wouldn't be an issue. Switching from a Delux saw to a Rabbit saw would give you a little boost in speed.

 

[hangupsgallery]

FWIW Department

BTW, I hate bag type dust collectors: every time you start them up you get an injection of the very fine dust and emptying them is no fun. I wouldn't have one in either the frame shop or the cabinet shop. In exactlly what situations do you think a double miter saw will give you an advantage over the FrameSquare? .

We have been using a bag type dust collector for years with absolutely no dust issues. "injection of very fine dust when you start them up"...nope! We built and attached a custom dust chute on the back side of the saw. Not pretty but, simple, made out of masonite, works great. Our saw area is completely open to our assembly area and within 10 ft of our CMC. "emptying them is no fun"...piece-O-cake. We empty the bag about once every 6 months...not a big issue...just snaps on and off.

As far as all these fancy expensive saws mentioned... heck, we use a 10" Dewalt from Home Depot. Cuts perfect mitres every time. We have a Phaedra measuring table attached...very accurate. The secret is in the saw blades...keep 'em sharp and use quality blades. We change out the blade from metal to wood when needed.