Does anyone have an installation business?

[JbNormandog]

Hi all,

I have an oportunity to take over an existing installation business.

I am a bit concerned about the framing end of my business. It has taken me 4 years to build it up to where it is now. I would absolutely keep the framing, it is the mainstay of my work and enjoy it very much.

The install part will help me get in the door with an art consulting company. I have talked to them and it sounds like it is going to be more than I previously thought.

The downside that I see so far, much more traveling (sometimes to places that I prefer to not go, dealing with NYC is a nightmare, unions run elevators, parking is crazy and overall I detest dealing with it), time away from the shop and even less time at home.

The positive, if I get the framing side of their business (I know some of you won't see that as a positive from your past experiences) that would be nice income for framing. It will be another service to offer my customers and extra pay for me.

I guess I am looking for other points of views that I may not have thought of yet.

What do you think? Do any of you install as a side business, what do you think of art consultants (I know could be another thread entirely).

This is my strategy so far.....
I have a meeting with them soon and want to be upfront with them and tell them of my concerns mainly traveling outside of my area (some of their installs are in 3 neighboring states that I won't travel to, I don't want to travel 3 hours 1 way to hang a picture and come home only to lose money in fuel).
Let them know how I can be a benefit as their framer.
Possibly try to set myself up for more of their local work and if interested, to take over any framing from their current guy (they are not happy with).

I want to keep the 2 as different businesses so that people don't feel that they can only call me if they got art here.



OK, head is spinning and mind racing so I will now sit back and hope some of you have the light of experience to shed on my dark ramblings.


Thanks,
Bob

 

[j Paul]

Off the top of my head Bob I would say that if you have an install 3 hours away, you need sub-contractors.

 

[JFeig]

I charge portal to portal @ my shop rate plus mileage. As for tolls, parking....... that is added on.

My farthest drive has been in the 1 hour range.

 

[J Phipps TN]

I have not tackled this for two reasons....

1. I am scared to death to go into someone elses house and put holes in thier walls.

And 2. What if it falls off the wall and hurts someone, Would I be responsible?

But with that said, I have always wanted to offer that service. I think it goes perfectly with ours.

As for the out of town ones, have a charge for any hanging that is over a certain distance unless it is a big job and worth your while.

Set your rules right up front and then just stick with them.

It sounds like a good opportunity for you.

 

[Sherry Lee]

Some of these companies that ask you to do installations have clauses that you sign stating you will not promote your company or solicit or accept any business from thier clients without their approval.....including additional installation, sale of art or other products/servies.

FYI

 

[AWG]

When I was more involved in the business we did a good bit of installation business; since I now have an outside job we've really cut back on the ones we do ourselves. That being said, we still offer installation thru a subcontractor. We refer calls to him - no liability exposure, we still look as if we offer it, and he gets a bit of business. We used to work on a "commission" basis on referrals; no longer, since we refer back and forth many jobs. It works well for us.

ANYONE you can add to your "crew" - woodworkers, installers, conservators, bookbinders, sculptors, painters, etc all add to your service list - allow you to offe more and become the "go to" guy for more and more things.


Tony

 

[Tilo]

I agree with AWG (Tony) 100%. I am a professional installer for 16 years and only fiddle with framing. I only take jobs that I can handle as far as my framing skills go. But like the art of framing a piece, the art of installing is a lot more than banging a hook in the wall and slapping the piece up. It takes a lot of ingenuity, creativity and proficiency to do it right. If you have the years of experience then you can actually make a great living at it. But the last thing you want to do is have your framing business suffer. I had the same opportunity as you only reversed. I have a client that I do all of his placement and installation design as well as lighting design for his collection of artwork. He recently begged me to frame all of his new purchases. Since he is a great client I agreed to do it. I quickly realized that although I can frame fairly well, the time it takes me to do it and the amount of mistakes I make (bad double mat cuts, broken CC glass at $40 a pop etc) I wasn't making close to what I make per hour installing. Also, another thing to consider. If you mess up a mat or break some glass in the privacy of your own shop....WHO CARES! If you are on a job site installing and you happen to unfortunately make a critical error in let's say hardware choice on a heavy piece and the big piece goes KABOOM.........well you get the picture. LIABILITY is not a word to take lightly. I say sub it out to a reciprocal relationship and focus on what you do best.


Tilo

 

[Kirstie]

Installers

We sub it out to a one person business. This person used to work for us many years ago and then formed his own installation company. it is nice that he is an ex-framer as well. We consult on hardware before the job is finished. He is paid California rates--between $85-$125 per hour plus travel time. I usually go with him and charge $50. to "supervise" on large jobs. I end up unwrapping pictures, talking with the client about placement, cleaning glass or acrylic, taking out trash to dumpster, etc. I then photograph the job if I have permission. Most jobs cost the customer $125 per hour for the two of us.

We gave up doing our own installations year ago. Regarding liability, unless you are using a large installation outfit, my educated guess is that the buck stops with you anyway. You have the insurance, and most small installation outfits do not. In fact, I have never found one that did. We work with the one person with the understanding that he make himself available to come back and immediatly make repairs if any are necessary. So far we have had none.

Years ago, when were were doing it ourselves we did have something fall right off the wall in a corporate lobby. So its obvious we are not suited for this line of work. Best to trust it to the professionals.

Oh, for residential installations, we just give the customer the installer's card. I only go on the corporate ones.

The person we use is very busy, and now does not work in San Francisco, so I have to bring someone up from San Jose when I am over there. This must be a good business!