Does anyone else frame a jersey this way?

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Artrageous

PFG, Picture Framing God
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Time for a change of scenery
I received a framed example of a sports jersey framed elsewhere. I was asked to bid on future work from this client.

They left me a sample, which looked nicely stretched in the frame. I opened it and found this.

I don't frame jersey's this way and wondered if anyone else does.

There was nothing removed except the kraft paper dust cover.

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that's pretty bad! cutting corners to keep the price down obviously!!!
 
If they are producing a product for the sports fan as an alternative to a poster I have to say it is a winner. I would throw a backing board in there but I can be a bit frivolous at times. Wal-Mart sells jerseys for as little as $15 at times so if that's what you got it's all good.

If it is a real jersey the whole thing is a catastrophe.
 
I believe these are high school sports jerseys.

They may be presented to the athletes upon graduation.

The value is more intrinsic, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done to higher standards.

My quote will reflect two options. The first being exactly as seen, the second being the way I would frame the jersey had the customer brought it to me. I'll have pictures of other jerseys framed for them to compare.

My thoughts are price will be the determining factor and the cheaper option will be chosen.
 
I have seen it done like this before, mainly because of price point of customer, but also to keep size down. It's ugly, why bother framing it at all...but if that is how the customer wants it; I'd do it.

Sure, show them other and better options, who knows, they might reframe this one!
 
if that's how they wanted it framed for price reasons, and i agreed to it. I would put a note in the back behind the backing paper, saying that these Jerseys were framed as is, under the instructions of ........ and should no way be seen as a reflection on the quality of the frame shop and framing.
 
I have no problem with it. I don't care what the price point.

Not one of us was there during the designing... so we're all shooting
mackerel at that which offends are eye.
I just don't see the signature...

I did 11 jerseys in 16x20 plex boxes.... CHEAP plex boxes.

Each jersey was draped over the strainer, then pushed into the box
until it seated against the face. No spacers, nada.
I then inserted the hanging strainer and screwed the two screws in
through the sides of the plex.

Start to finish was well under an hour. Bid was $53 each... we made
$14each.... before I had to go deliver...

Each of these Jerseys were signed by the Olympic medalists. All 11 hang
in an area that would only hold two standard jersey jobs....

and BTW..... acrylic boxes would have cost $18 more each box.

In a few years... they will look like carp..... but in a few years, he won't care...
he'll be retired.
 
Issues of correct/incorrect technique aside, I think that looks cheap and rushed, like it was crammed into a standard frame. There is a jersey framed like that hanging in our local Maggiano's restaurant, and I cringe every time I see it.
:nuts: Rick
 
Rick Granick said:
Issues of correct/incorrect technique aside, I think that looks cheap and rushed, like it was crammed into a standard frame. There is a jersey framed like that hanging in our local Maggiano's restaurant, and I cringe every time I see it.
:nuts: Rick
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... but we who know how nice it would look when done properly, are few. Those who have no clue are legion.

And, yes, I have done framing like this. After education, if the customer wants a $90 job, then they get the $90 job. But I did put a backing board behind the jersey. I have standards.
 
I have never done a jersey that way.

With the speed and ease of Attach-EZ, I can’t imagine that designing and shaping a jersey template would save much time, money and labor.

Either way, it would seem to me that you’d still need a spacer.
 
OMG that is HORRID!!!!

I'm almost speechless..... :nuts: INSANE
 
Just looking at it, makes my heart hurt. I would have never shoved a jersey in a frame like that, and I won't even talk about those points being against the fabric. Shudder!

Even when I first started framing, and didn't have a framing education yet, I would never let the points touch the artwork. I have seen too many rust marks because of those points being against artwork.

It would not have taken much time or effort to do a jersey correctly, and in the long run, if your pricing is done right, it shouldn't cost much more than a half-arsed job.
 
I would say that the biggest difference in price would not be the mounting, but the frame itself. If you can cram the thing into a 16x20, then it will plainly cost less than a custom 29x 34 or whatever...
 
No thanks very much. Not interested one tiny bit in doing a job like that! Ever!
 
EllenAtHowards said:
I would say that the biggest difference in price would not be the mounting, but the frame itself. If you can cram the thing into a 16x20, then it will plainly cost less than a custom 29x 34 or whatever...
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Exactly.

I just don't get the horror. It's more than 99% of them would get if they were handed out in a plastic shopping bag. I feel too much money is spent on High School sports as it is, and you think these throwaways should be framed to conservation standards?

I don't have a problem spending (or getting people to spend) big. When the product and life cycle support it. I bet that, even framed, half these jerseys will never be put on the wall, and some of them won't even make it home.

edit: and when did the customer stop being right?
 
I've seen lots of these hanging in bars, restaurants and high school hallways. Not my preferred method, but sometimes they have no value beyond the decorative and aren't going to hang long anyway. I would certainly do it this way if I were asked, though no one ever has. I don't think I could manage to do it without a backing board though.

If you really don't want to do them, send these folks to me.:D
 
I think some of you are missing the point. It does not take much time or effort to frame a jersey without causing potential future damage. Mount the jersey a little smaller than the frame, window it so it won't touch the frame, or line the frame. Put spacers in so it won't touch the glass, and make sure there is something between the back of the jersey and the points.

Just those few things would help the jersey last longer, and allow it to become a collectable in the future.

My problems with the framing shown start with it being smushed into the frame,against the glass, and end with the metal points against the fabric. I'm not happy with the mounting, but that is a little more a case of personal thought. I just don't happen to like the tagging gun. (Just me.) (Although, it could be mounted neater too. But again, that's just my personal opinion.)

While I think a mat would look great, I understand that some people don't want the added expense. But framing can still be done inexpensivly without becoming part of the future damage.
 
WOW...... apparently I'm from outer space......... cuz around these parts...
The parents buy the jerseys at the end of the sport year and I frame them... ususally in time for their HS grad parties.....
I would never ever frame something ....even decorative like this...... EVER.
 
I don't think some of you are hearing what the customer in question is saying. They are not interested in quality they are only interested in price. In this day of the internet and news media everywhere HEROS only last until the next great play and then it is time to change the jersey on disply. Quality does not enter the picture only price.

It is not up to us as framers to turn down work because the customer is only interested in price. If we are to stay a viable business we must learn to hear what the customer is asking for and not to interject our morals for quality when it makes the job to costly for the customer. I agree they should be well informed as to exactly what they are getting but ultimately it is their choice.

Believe it or not money is still rel tight for a lot of folks and if we don't want to loose them forever we had better start listening to their concerns. Once they walk due to price you will probably never see them again!!!!!!
 
Everyone also had a standards in their shop too.
Do people think its really that much difference in $$$ that the person is going to walk because of it?Especially when we tell them that its not going to look as good in a year... 2 years down the line and they'll have to bring it back? 10 to 1 that customer has no idea how this is framed and they just want the best price you can give them.

Call me crazy... but I'd rather do it RIGHT the first time than have someone come back with it saying its messed up or looks horrible.:shrug:
 
blackiris said:
Call me crazy... but I'd rather do it RIGHT the first time than have someone come back with it saying its messed up or looks horrible.:shrug:
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I think anyone would.

The question is "what IS right"? You're saying that it's "A". If the customer thinks it's "B" they may leave without getting anything done, disappointing both you and them.

If "B" is below your standards you certainly have the right to not do it. Just realize that the customer has the right to get it done elsewhere.
 
If that's what the customer wants and they know the difference between that and a higher spec job then there is no reason we wouldn't do it. I doubt very much that someone wanting 1 or 2 would select the cheaper option, when they want 500 each year and the price difference runs into 10's of thousands for a low value shirt what's the problem? Give them all the information, encourage them where possible but it's still the customers decision.

It looks reversible to me so if the end recipient wanted to reframe then no problem right?
 
Nicole I am with you on this one. That job was horrendous. No way would I put my shop sticker on that order. Looks like the needleworks that come in from the big boxes that are mounted down using masking tape. Just not done that way here.

You never know what will happen or where that high school player will be next year or in the future. They could go on and be famous, they could fall down a stairwell and die like one kid from the local high school did this year. Star athlete gone forever, family and friends devastated and the big memory of his game winning play dying a slow death inside a cheap frame job...

Do the job right or pass on it. Your sticker your reputation.
 
Reversible?! Wood frame, metal points touching the fabric, wrapped around the fome core, is that a black mat on the inside of the shirt? If so then probably a cheap paper mat certainly not acid free rag mat. Acid burns, rust stains, acid burned brittle creases where the shirt is wrapped around the fome. Definitely not reversible, unless you think that buying a new shirt to replace it is reversing the damage :)

If I was doing 100+ shirts for a school team then they aren't gonna be paying full price, there would be a volume discount. So the cost to the school or the team members would be lower than doing each one individually. And if you want to go "cheap" then use the neilsen shirt box frames, no need to ruin the shirts by doing this to them.
 
Ray Bragg said:
It is not up to us as framers to turn down work because the customer is only interested in price. If we are to stay a viable business we must learn to hear what the customer is asking for and not to interject our morals for quality when it makes the job to costly for the customer.
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I don't believe that all framing businesses are the same! Some businesses will frame things to any standard to make a dollar and some won't, because their business model is not the same!

Ray Bragg said:
Believe it or not money is still rel tight for a lot of folks and if we don't want to loose them forever we had better start listening to their concerns. Once they walk due to price you will probably never see them again!!!!!!
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Speaking for myself, I don't mind if some prospective customers walk and never come back. They are usually seeking a price level that I am unable to help them with, and they often have unrealistic expectations. There are other businesses in my area that can help them. I would much rather sell 10 jobs at $500 than 100 at $50!

I guess I'm just a little weird that way!
 
Bob Doyle said:
Reversible?! Wood frame, metal points touching the fabric, wrapped around the fome core, is that a black mat on the inside of the shirt? If so then probably a cheap paper mat certainly not acid free rag mat. Acid burns, rust stains, acid burned brittle creases where the shirt is wrapped around the fome. Definitely not reversible, unless you think that buying a new shirt to replace it is reversing the damage :)
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Lance E said:
It looks reversible to me so if the end recipient wanted to reframe then no problem right?
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He's talking about when they get it, not 4000 years later.
 
David N Waldmann said:
edit: and when did the customer stop being right?
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The customer is sometimes right, but not always! Customers do not have the experience or the knowledge that most framers have!

IMO, The customer is always the customer! That's all!
 
David N Waldmann said:
edit: and when did the customer stop being right?
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There is a differnce being being right in wanting something and being right about what the price they want to pay gets them. I wanted the exhaust on my wife's car fixed. I didn't want to spend the full $800 to "do the job right". But the mechanic informed me what the $50 fix entailed and why the $800 job was the right route to go. Once informed being the customer I was able to make an informed decision.


David N Waldmann said:
He's talking about when they get it, not 4000 years later.
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I just designed a framing job for a customer. They bought the artwork knowing they wanted to reframe it. They bought it in 1983, knowing they would be bringing it to be reframed "as soon as possible".

And let's not forget the backing paper was on and covering up the "craftsmanship" of the first framer. The customer has no idea what nightmares are under our nice backing papers. I don't think our job is to get the work done and out the door so much as it is to bring more work in those doors. I want to be known for good workmanship and for taking the best care of the customers and the customers' property, not for being able to knock out work fast and cheap. I see the need for both. I bring my truck to the fast and cheap mechanic, my wife's car goes to the diligent mechanic. She and the kids don't ride in my vehicles...
 
i am with Ormond. I would rather do 10 jobs at $500 then 500 at $10. In my experience, the ones that want something done cheaply are the biggest complainers and time wasters, and just having to fix something in a frame like that with no margin, means you would run at loss.
I have told no to a few customers i would not do jobs like that. Actually had one take the work somewhere else, but came back to me to do their good framing. Guess they couldn't trust someone with their valuable stuff who is willing to cut corners.
 
i-FRAMER said:
Guess they couldn't trust someone with their valuable stuff who is willing to cut corners.
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Exactly!!! I was willing to do some jobs for short money for some customers wen I first started. Was willing to let them bring in "stuff" and "just put it into frames" for very little thinking they would come to me for their big jobs. Didn't work out that way at all. They would bring their large orders to a framer that charged a lot more than me. Presumably because you get what you pay for and I was dirt cheap.

Now that said I do do small jobs for cheap. But there is a difference between putting backing paper and a wire on a frame for $5-10 and selling a complete frame job for $30. The people that get good customer service, the $5-10 backing paper people have brought in sizable orders, the $30 framing customers, typically an artist, brings their "good work" to a different framer. One artist had me frame up 12 works for a show, then brought the $200 frame job to a different framer so it could be the show stopper piece. She brought that one to me to "fix" then turned red faced when I told her it was framed elsewhere. And FWIW she gets all her frames from me now, but the loss of that "good job" stings.
 
Against My Religion

I could never frame something like this and get any money in return for it. I am certainly not questioning the decisions here of other framers. I am just talking about ME. You are all right that if the customer is willing to pay for such a mess and needs someone to do it, you have every right to do it. I honestly wish I didn't care so #### much. But, alas I do, and that job would absolutely find itself in the shop down the street.
 
Follow up-

Client wants to match existing work. (although I'd add a piece of foamcore on the back)

Options given, but price won out.

15 pieces @ 100.00 each.

26 X 26 - Decor 8811, regular glass, foamcore insert, scrap black mat around neckline, foam backing, kraft paper dust cover, hook and wire.

Less then a full day shop time.
 
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