Do you tell....

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J

J Phipps TN

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Posts
1,423
Loc
Kingsport TN
Do you tell other framers in your area about the grumble?

I find it to be a great wealth of information and really would hate to share it with the competition.

And if you know that your competition is registered, are you careful not to give information you would normally share with other framers who live too far to be a threat?

Just wondering?

And has anybody even thought of this?

Jennifer
 
What secret information is there that the competition can't get on it's own? This is framing not nuclear physics, I will gladly share information when requested from across the country or across the street.
 
Jennifer...

I have thought about this on numerous occasions.. and am very careful, now.

I would be in favor of having to sign on to read the grumble - but I guess it is considered a public forum.

Once I said something that I had to ask a moderator to immediate delete as I realized it was inflamatory!!

Roz
 
I have told other framers in my area about TG and I talk to a couple of them on a fairly regular basis.

I think it is good to know "the competition" and share information about vendors and techniques.

The other framers in my area feel that we are all different and people come to us for different reasons.
In fact one of them (also a gallery owner) and I are planning an area event for the fall.

There is another active Grumbler from this area but he is too far away to be competition.
In fact he has been very helpful on more than one occasion!
 
Do tell..

Yes, and I actually talk more to Erin (Kittyfaces) on-line than I do in person!

I don't tell all framers however. And I have actually complained about neighbor framers here! So I hope <strike>he</strike> they don't read the Grumble!

I think, for me, its a matter of how much I trust, like them. The ones I tell about the Grumble are people I would invite into my home.

After all you all are like family to me, some I really like, some I listen to and some I just know well enough to not get angry with when your opinions disagree with mine! Some days I feel like the wise bigger brother, somedays the family **** up, but this is the first place I turn when that customer comes in the door with either a crazy request or interesting conundrum!
 
I was told about The Grumble by a formidable competitor who is about two miles away: John Ranes. (John knows he created a monster.)

Then John invited me to join the board of our PPFA chapter where, ohmygawd, people were sharing trade secrets on a regular basis with other framers just a stone's-throw away.

But, then, John is all about sharing in this industry. What a crappy business this would be without people willing to share and network, even with people in the same market.
 
I would and I have.

-Mike.
 
I will gladly share information w/other framers in my area. I do help them out by giving them materials (ATG or a matboard they need for a rush job if I have it in stock or whatever else they may need that I can loan them). But, most framers in my area act as though we are competing for business and are afraid I'm gonna steal from them.
 
If you really think about it, framing is like the game of golf. You normally aren't competing with others...you yourself are usually your biggest handicap. Becoming more efficient at what we do is one of the biggest ways to improve profitability. The other is charging appropriately for what we do (ahh, but that is a totally different subject in itself).

Raising the bouy of professionalism in one's craft or trade never hurt anyone. My father, who gets wiser each day since he's gone to framer heaven, always told me to not worry about the competition. Take the best care possible of the customer in front of you and you will never have to worry about losing that customer and they will send others to you.

Of course you should tell others of the Grumble. Those who are willing to share gain the most in any undertaking because they are always the same ones who others respect and are willing to help.

Would you not show an employee a more efficient way to do a task? Often our employees go to work for the "competition" or for themselves.

Take the high road and share what others have taught you or you have discovered yourself.

Dave Makielski

"Pull together, get farther, faster."
 
My major competitor is not online … I don’t think.

I wouldn’t mind sharing anything except proprietary info like pricing and the secret to longevity and happiness.
 
I guess I read this post too quickly - ignore my previous response! Totally different subject.

I was lead here by a grumbler from Buffalo originally - and thank her in thoughts everytime I am on tg. I don't know what I would do without my grumbler-support group!! And to pass this connection and knowledge on just seems like the right thing to do... with a very few exceptions...
 
I think what I have always liked about this business is the fact that it is comprised of friendly competion, at least in this area. We have always been more than willing to help each other out and that is also how I found out the Grumble.
We have never discussed the bottom line or pricing guides. It's probably a given that that info is private and not for discussion. As far as sharing the world of framers with you people : OF COURSE !!!
Lori
 
I have laways told ever person I speak to about the Grumble ( not just framers). However I do recomend all framers to register even those who are dedicated to other forums. But I also wish I could keep my big mouth closed about my Business faults since we never know who is Lurking and some competitors aren't always friendly and would love to exploit our mistakes.

As far as lending a helping hand with techniques ,I am proud whenever my advise helps someone. But then I hope you don't think I air all my dirty laundry ( well not ALL of it.LOL But then maybe you'd wish I'd share none of it)

In all seriousness I don't think every competitor wishes us well and it would be wise to "THINK" before we type( not just because it may be boreing either). Ron ,John Ranes Gave me that advise also.
BUDDY
 
The heck with pricing schemes.
Please tell us the real secret to happiness.
Click to expand...
Sorry, Jerry, that’s proprietary and I consider you a competitor.
 
Originally posted by J Phipps TN:
I find it to be a great wealth of information and really would hate to share it with the competition.
Click to expand...
I find that just plain odd......I would encourage my competition to come ot the Grumble to inform themselves. The end result would be better informed competitors which would only help to elevate the whole industry.

IN our efforts to get our new PPFA chapter off the ground we encountered a lot of resistance based on not wanting to give away secrets to the competitor. I don't get it.
 
august 11, 2004, i opened my shop in a beautiful pre-colonial building in a central location. that day one of the other framers in town came by and said "welcome, there is enough framing in this town to go around". i was so grateful for the gracious comment, because this is a small town and she has been in business for 18 years. unfortunately, neither she, nor any of the other local framers, knows much of anything about conservation and preservation. i am the only acid-free alternative, and all my supplies are imported. i asked her then if she knew about the grumble,but she didn't. i want to thank everyone on this forum from the bottom of my heart. i owe a huge amount of what i know to the generous people willing to share. my business is doing better than i ever imagined, and it's because there is an educated clientele for what i offer. thank you all, so much. sincerely, karen
 
Originally posted by BUDDY:
I have laways told ever person I speak to about the Grumble ( not just framers).

In all seriousness I don't think every competitor wishes us well and it would be wise to "THINK" before we type( not just because it may be boreing either). BUDDY
Click to expand...
I do, too, Buddy. And you are right to remind us all to "Think" before we type. There ARE lots of lurkers. And not all are friendly.

Trust your own judgement, Jennifer. Share with those you feel comfortable sharing with & those you don't feel comfortable sharing with....well, don't ;)
 
Two of the most respectable competitors in my market area are here, and several from surrounding areas. I will help them if I can, publicly and privately, because I want to be a good neighbor.

I'm with Emibub & Jerry V. What secrets do we have, relating to Grumble topics, that are too valuable to share?
 
Framing pictures is a craft, not a sport. As far as the craft itself goes, if it is a true craft, there should be no competition. A craft is something that should continue to be trying to improve itself, through sharing with other people of a like mind.

This is traditionally why trade organizations exist, for the sharing and improvement of the craft. Myself, I regard The Grumble as a trade organization, as it lives up to all the standards of one, therefore, it should be shared.

A sport, on the other hand, should be competitive, wouldn't be worth participating in or viewing, if it wasn't. That is how sports improve themselves, through competition.

Now here is the quandary, a business, by it's very nature, is much like a sport, it must be competitive to survive and improve. So what are we, craftspeople or business people?

If we believe in sharing and improving our craft, all involved in it, including the big box operations, should be welcome. For the betterment of our craft, if nothing else.

If we, all of us, are putting out a truly great product, there is no reason whatsoever that the public should not look on us favorably. On the other hand, if a few of us are putting out crap, doesn't that give all of us a black eye?

Is it not good business to insure that we are all doing the best we can, even our competition in business?

Just some thoughts from an old timer.

John
 
Well put, John. I agree 100%.
 
I tell every framer (and supplier) I speak with about the Grumble and it will never cease to amaze me that no one ever expresses any interest whatsoever! One or two say they "looked at it" once but it obviously didn't capture them the way it captured me!

Maybe other framers have "real" lives - and they don't have the time to spend reading and typing like I do - but in my opinion the Grumble is a pure GOLD MINE and if the others wish to continue to ignore it - fine with me!

It simply is a puzzlement.....

I used to tell my ex-husband funny shop stories and he was baffled as to why I would think he would be interested in these crazy customer/frame project stories. Sorta explains why he is the "EX" huh? So now I have an appreciative audience and I am an appreciative audience - right here on the Grumble!

I think maybe for the "one-person" shop the G is an especially valuable resource - and I agree with John that it is a trade association!
 
I see about 15-20 folks a week and I suggest it (TG) to about three or four. I tend to tell people who work by themselves or are in smaller shops. We always need a friend that we can bounce ideas off of. When I was with an old employer we really needed each other. When a new twist a rose we thought about it and tried ideas on the other. We would go back and forth until we felt comy. If we did not we would phone or email another framer or conservator in the area for suggestions. I think of this place as a second brain that one may borrow or use for the greater good.
Then you have the other folks in marketing and things like that who challenge norms. They make you rethink what you thought you knew. I have learned so much from just reading some posts by noteworthy individuals on here. One day I will test the water and see if I have been a good student.
Patrick Leeland
 
I think the only way I could legally give a link to the Grumble to a bunch of my competitors is to have my attorney send it to their attorney. :(

I'm not well liked.
 
Can't say that it doesn't suck!
It's why I'm semi-anonymous at any rate.

Though maybe if I told folks about this site and posted more they would stop trying to buy info from my employees and sending in spies. That would be nice. Come to think of it that really hasn't been an issue for a couple years now. Haven't caught a competitor with a notepad and pencil in front of my store before opening making notes then duplicating my window art for less money in their stores in a number of years. Maybe I'm losing my edge.
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It used to be really nasty cutthroat around here. I'm glad most of those players and rivalries have been quiet.
 
Hey, I'm cool with it!


I like it here a lot, I just don't have many folks to bring to the party, hehe.

It's really great that many of you are friendly with the local competition. It's enviable! I'm sure there are folks that I would get along with too, just haven't met a lot of them. There are a couple of people I like a lot, haven't chatted with them in years though.
 
Hey Johnny, don't forget that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Just put up a sign that says, "The ORIGINAL, and STILL the BEST!"
New shop opened right up the street from me last year and basically copied my logo. Trying to get people in their door mistakenly when they're looking for "that frame place with the tilted frame logo".
Man, if you're in a "creative" business, and have to plagiarize a dang LOGO, c'mon...
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Rick
 
HI Guys,

If a few framers in the US and over here in Oz didn't tell me about the grumble, I would of learnt nothing, or laughed as hard.

I'm so glad that they did share this information with me. I've learnt so much, talked to a few and excerised the insides by laughing.

I've learnt information on framing, reciepes and about life.. where else can you get that..

If it wasn't for the framer down the road with his 30 years of expeirence and the his willingness to share and help me, I wouldn't be framing as we speak. I'd be sitting on the beach drinking latte's with my girlfriends...(oh I do that anyway.. I call it NETWORKING)
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Thanks again for sharing!

Marion
 
the grumble feeds me!!
I began custom framing 5 years ago, knowing nothing, I was trained on the job. For 4 years I worked with people who had been framing for many years, everyday I learned! Now those people have moved on and it is just me and one other framer who really isn't interested, it's just a job to her, she would really rather be somewhere else.

I have a boss who is not interested in anything new, will not pay my way to educational fairs--I
tried, I can't afford to do it myself!
I have been looking for something for a while, so glad I found TG!! It is just what I need, I never miss a day that I don't come here and have a look. Don't always post! but I do look, learn and grow!
The only thing that gets me is sometimes people get a little technical and I don't understand and am a little intimidated. Don't want to ask stupid questions! But I' am trying to get over it!
So please share! It is not just business people who come here, but those like me who are just peon's doing the work and dreaming of better things.
Elsa
 
i have been telling alot of the frame shops in the houston area.. but haven't seen them on...
 
Elsa, "stupid" questions, asked honestly, will generally receive honest answers on The Grumble.
The more specific the question, the more likely you are to get what you're looking for.

The kind of question that's either ignored or (sometimes) ridiculed is one like, "How much does framing cost?"

Oh, wait, that's usually a customer question.

Okay, how 'bout, "How much should I charge for framing?"

The other thing that really sets Grumblers off is a post (usually it's a first and last post) like, "I have been framing for several months now and know everything there is to know about framing, business, marketing, sales, human resources, conservation and quantum physics. So, if you have any questions for me, fire away."

Most of us prefer "stupid" questions.
 
Unlike in many places, there is a good bond between most of the framers in our town. There are 5 framers in our town. Three of us have breakfast together every Friday. Two of us HH and Grumble, the other one doesn't care to. The conversation rarely turns to framing. It is mostly grandkids, town news and 'girl talk'. However, we will troubleshoot for each other, combine orders so that some of the companies can be coaxed into driving so far out to deliver to us, and swap scrap mat when the necessity arises. I can't say enough nice about being able to commisserate with fellow framers so often. PPFA meetings just don't come around often enough for MY framing fix needs!
 
i've thought about these issues some, as well.
i'm in a "funny" sort of position, you see, as i'm not an owner, and my "boss" is very well known and, i think, quite respected within the industry. he has posted on tg some, and we talk about tg as well, sometimes.
so, i try to be as tactful, as i know how (which isn't always enough :rolleyes: ), so as not to compromise his position in the indutry.
i don't always post/reply when i'd like, therefore, because of this.
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I do tell the other framers in my area about the Grumble... but I have never seen them online. I also talk to my suppliers about the Grumble, and they are very good about following up and cheking the Grumble when I tell them to... most monitor the 'G on a daily basis. But sometimes they miss things that they need to see.

Just because you don't see them post, does not mean that they don't read.

I hope that means that there are a lot of frame shops out there that are reading EVERYTHING that we post! Perhaps that will be good for the industry. An educated shop just might survive.
 
Elsa bow's down and kisses Ron's toes!!
 
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