Suggestion Do-it-yourself framing pricing structure
- Thread starter Christa
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JDV
Grumbler
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- Aug 23, 2011
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There's a place here in town who's name reflects the do-it-yourself concept but they no longer offer that because there just wasn't a demand for it.
I couldn't imagine doing that with all these shady people these days who will intentionally hurt themselves just to get a lawsuit against you for some quick cash. Ofcourse, you could always have them sign some waiver but even then...I wouldn't want anybody getting hurt in the shop, period.
I couldn't imagine doing that with all these shady people these days who will intentionally hurt themselves just to get a lawsuit against you for some quick cash. Ofcourse, you could always have them sign some waiver but even then...I wouldn't want anybody getting hurt in the shop, period.
j Paul
PFG, Picture Framing God
Christa, may I suggest you do a "search" ,"for do it yourself" or DIY. You'll find there are a few who do it (Kirstie) but as I remember the consensus is that you have to have more time/staff to babysit these people. It doesn't always translate to lower cost. Might save the customer all of the fitting charge but not really the shop owner.
Bill Henry-
Brussel Sprout Connoisseur
We still offer DIY, but we don’t advertise it too heavily. We still have some customers who like to assemble their own frames, but we are in a fairly affluent area so I think it is more therapy than a cost savings deal for most. I guess it beats kicking your dog or hitting your kids.
The two disadvantages that I can see: (1) For first timers, it often takes longer to “talk” someone through the process than to actually do it myself, and (2) we have to discount the work.
For those now rare occasions, we simply knock off the “fitting” charge. It saves most people around 15% of the normal retail.
Although we probably should, we’ve never worried about the insurance liability issue since we do all of the cutting, and, besides, the first two band-aids are free.
I kind of enjoy DIY. It gives me someone real to talk to other than the radio announcer who I believe is talking back to me sometimes, and fellow Grumblers who IMO aren't real to begin with.
The two disadvantages that I can see: (1) For first timers, it often takes longer to “talk” someone through the process than to actually do it myself, and (2) we have to discount the work.
For those now rare occasions, we simply knock off the “fitting” charge. It saves most people around 15% of the normal retail.
Although we probably should, we’ve never worried about the insurance liability issue since we do all of the cutting, and, besides, the first two band-aids are free.
I kind of enjoy DIY. It gives me someone real to talk to other than the radio announcer who I believe is talking back to me sometimes, and fellow Grumblers who IMO aren't real to begin with.
Paul Cascio
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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DIY has some major positives:
1. Customers may frame more frequently because they get they joy of making the frame; not just owning it.
2. You build more rapport with the customers
3. It provides a unique competitive advantage that most framers don't offer
Of course, there are some major negatives too:
1. You need more space
2. As Framah noted, liability is increased.
3. It takes longer to hold the customer's hand and teach them, than it does to frame it for them
4. Savings to the customer are usualy not that much
5. When the customer messes up, they may expect you to replace the materrials it at no cost
6. They may enjoy framing so much that they attend my class and become your competitor.
1. Customers may frame more frequently because they get they joy of making the frame; not just owning it.
2. You build more rapport with the customers
3. It provides a unique competitive advantage that most framers don't offer
Of course, there are some major negatives too:
1. You need more space
2. As Framah noted, liability is increased.
3. It takes longer to hold the customer's hand and teach them, than it does to frame it for them
4. Savings to the customer are usualy not that much
5. When the customer messes up, they may expect you to replace the materrials it at no cost
6. They may enjoy framing so much that they attend my class and become your competitor.
Bob Doyle
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ah, I forgot about #5 !!!
Greg Fremstad
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
D I Y Framing
We were one of the first DIY/ custom frame shops in the Lower San Francisco Bay Area in 1970.
We had a blast! Met some wonderful people, were always the heros, built the whole business up to the point we were too busy to do DIY.
I also invented one of the first Vacuum-Heat drymount presses (sold the design rights to Seal in 1977)
We let folks drymount their own photos, etc. cut their own mats, joing their own frames with an air nailer in a Stanley vise, and even fit with an air stapler.
All we did was cut the wood or metal frames and the glass.
Luckily, we never had an injury and very few problems. I don't remember them screwing up very much material.
It was fun, probably wasn't all that profitable.
Wouldn't EVEN think of trying it in this era.
We were one of the first DIY/ custom frame shops in the Lower San Francisco Bay Area in 1970.
We had a blast! Met some wonderful people, were always the heros, built the whole business up to the point we were too busy to do DIY.
I also invented one of the first Vacuum-Heat drymount presses (sold the design rights to Seal in 1977)
We let folks drymount their own photos, etc. cut their own mats, joing their own frames with an air nailer in a Stanley vise, and even fit with an air stapler.
All we did was cut the wood or metal frames and the glass.
Luckily, we never had an injury and very few problems. I don't remember them screwing up very much material.
It was fun, probably wasn't all that profitable.
Wouldn't EVEN think of trying it in this era.
Dave
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
As others have suggested, DIY is not about saving money. It is about saying "I did this".
Savings to the customer... 10-15%.
Possibly holding framing classes could be more profitable? Especially if you are also willing to sell materials at reasonable profit to those you instruct. I don't think I'd worry too much about training a professional competitor, although it is an interesting point.
I would also think your market would dictate the possibility of success. If you have universities with large art departments in your area... a plus. If you have a large amateur and semi-amateur artist community and your relationship with them is great... a plus. A large metropolitan area ... possibly a plus.
Savings to the customer... 10-15%.
Possibly holding framing classes could be more profitable? Especially if you are also willing to sell materials at reasonable profit to those you instruct. I don't think I'd worry too much about training a professional competitor, although it is an interesting point.
I would also think your market would dictate the possibility of success. If you have universities with large art departments in your area... a plus. If you have a large amateur and semi-amateur artist community and your relationship with them is great... a plus. A large metropolitan area ... possibly a plus.
Terry Scidmore CPF
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
You know that old saw about "it is impossible to make things foolproof because fools are so ingenious"? Trust me, you will be amazed at how "creative" the DIYer can be with anything you put in their hands.
Like Greg said, it can be a lot of fun - for a while. People ARE different now then back in the 1970's. Insurance IS different now than back in the 1070's. Peoples expectations are different now than in the 1970's.
Like Paul said - it takes a lot of your time. You will need an employee who does very little else other than babysit. If you are going to be the one to be doing the babysitting, figure you are going to be doing your custom work at some other time - usually after the shop is closed and on the weekend.
Like Bill Henry said - it is kind of therapy for your customer. You have to decide if giving therapy away for free will pay the bills.
You have to have the personality for this. You have to have patience and tact. You have to enjoy teaching, showing, and interacting with a learning public. You have to be enthusiastic. You should have some first aid skills (accidents do happen). You will probably want to decide what kinds of projects you will allow customers to do, and how large a frame size you think they can handle. You have to not mind repeating the same thing many times over, day after day after day after day . . . .. .
There's not a lot of money in it. Shops that offer/offered it in my area reduced the price by the fitting charge (anywhere from 10 - 20%), or charged a table charge or a per picture charge. None of us promote it, or offer it anymore.
Michaels/Aaron Brothers offers FREE framing if you buy a ready made frame from them - you can DIY at Michaels or you can have them frame it for FREE! Which do you think most customers choose?
Best DIY customer I ever had? A blind man who listened to my directions carefully, worked moderately, asked questions if he didn't understand something BEFORE he did anything, and allowed himself the necessary time to do the work. He was very good at DIY - and better than some sighted framers.
Worst DIY customer I ever had? The society mother who handed me her sick toddler to "babysit" while she tried to frame a picture for a function with less than 45 minutes before it had to be presented - including driving time to the event. She was so busy talking on her phone, ignoring her baby and my directions as I helped another customer that she shoved the glass through the front of the frame, rather than putting it into the back of the frame. She broke the glass, cut herself, passed out (try catching a fainting customer while holding a sick, screaming toddler). Of course, it was all "my fault". But the first aid classes I took came in handy!
Do I miss DIY? Only a little bit, now and then, with really sweet customers.
Like Greg said, it can be a lot of fun - for a while. People ARE different now then back in the 1970's. Insurance IS different now than back in the 1070's. Peoples expectations are different now than in the 1970's.
Like Paul said - it takes a lot of your time. You will need an employee who does very little else other than babysit. If you are going to be the one to be doing the babysitting, figure you are going to be doing your custom work at some other time - usually after the shop is closed and on the weekend.
Like Bill Henry said - it is kind of therapy for your customer. You have to decide if giving therapy away for free will pay the bills.
You have to have the personality for this. You have to have patience and tact. You have to enjoy teaching, showing, and interacting with a learning public. You have to be enthusiastic. You should have some first aid skills (accidents do happen). You will probably want to decide what kinds of projects you will allow customers to do, and how large a frame size you think they can handle. You have to not mind repeating the same thing many times over, day after day after day after day . . . .. .
There's not a lot of money in it. Shops that offer/offered it in my area reduced the price by the fitting charge (anywhere from 10 - 20%), or charged a table charge or a per picture charge. None of us promote it, or offer it anymore.
Michaels/Aaron Brothers offers FREE framing if you buy a ready made frame from them - you can DIY at Michaels or you can have them frame it for FREE! Which do you think most customers choose?
Best DIY customer I ever had? A blind man who listened to my directions carefully, worked moderately, asked questions if he didn't understand something BEFORE he did anything, and allowed himself the necessary time to do the work. He was very good at DIY - and better than some sighted framers.
Worst DIY customer I ever had? The society mother who handed me her sick toddler to "babysit" while she tried to frame a picture for a function with less than 45 minutes before it had to be presented - including driving time to the event. She was so busy talking on her phone, ignoring her baby and my directions as I helped another customer that she shoved the glass through the front of the frame, rather than putting it into the back of the frame. She broke the glass, cut herself, passed out (try catching a fainting customer while holding a sick, screaming toddler). Of course, it was all "my fault". But the first aid classes I took came in handy!
Do I miss DIY? Only a little bit, now and then, with really sweet customers.
The last DIY shop in my state converted over to regular/custom framing in 2008. They changed their name to represent this change. (from "Frame It Yourself" to just "Frame It")
In today's time of lawyers, class action suits, and opportunists, I would cringe at the idea of getting into DIY. However, I can see where it might have a place too. (like in a college town with an art school)
I would imagine the same pricing rules apply, as any other frame shop. The same software would suffice.
Mike
In today's time of lawyers, class action suits, and opportunists, I would cringe at the idea of getting into DIY. However, I can see where it might have a place too. (like in a college town with an art school)
I would imagine the same pricing rules apply, as any other frame shop. The same software would suffice.
Mike