Do I purchase this vacuum press?

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Mr Buckfast

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
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Loc
Chelan, WA
I've been operating a frame shop since February, leasing the equipment from the previous owners. Long story short, I am ready to purchase this equipment as I relocate the business.

They purchased a PrintMount Hot Shot Press, size 48 x 98 brand new in February of 2007 for $9k. I would classify it's level of use as "low."

Here's my issue: in the time that I've been framing, I've never mounted anything over 60 inches long. It seems like a lot more machine than I need. I need some sort of press, and I feel obligated to buy this one, but it is a lot of money (and much more than a smaller used press I could conceivably replace it with).

Can anyone make an argument for me purchasing this machine? Also, any sense of what a fair market value is for it? (this is probably the most critical question)

thanks for your help,
Adam
 
Welcome to the Grumble Adam.

What you have is a truly top of the line piece of equipment. Your dilema is that you don't really need it. You need to ask yourself how important it is to your business. Are you wet mounting or strictly dry mounting.

Alternatives to it are a smaller vacuum press or for the size capability you could use a Seal 500TX and find one in good shape for $1,000. The mechanical press will not give you the option of wet mounting. Used equipment in these economic times is worth 50 cents on the dollar at best.

Now tell us exactly what your needs are and we can expand on this.
 
I've had my Seal Vacupress 4468 for 8 years. It will accommodate 40 x 60, and I use it a ton. I'd say on the average of 2 to 5 times per year do I ever have need for a larger mount. When I do, I simply farm it out to another local framer who does have the larger press. (It's always good to have a decent relationship with your competitors, you or they might need something.)

When I bought my press it was a demo, only one year old. I paid $3500.
Shop around, you might find something you like better.

Oh and welcome to the G!
 
Adam, welcome welcome. I must agree, sounds like a beautiful press and may be more than you need right now. Who is to say what the future will hold. Some times more equipment than you need right now and having the ability to grow into it is better than the reverse. Only you know what you will make of this business. Study out your options, get more if time allows. Make a decision. Roll up your sleves and go for it.
 
The nice thing about a big vacuum press is that it doubles as a big framing table.... just food for thought.

I would weigh: It's already here, I know how to use it and its history isn't a mystery against It's too much press, it's too much money (I assume) and it's too big.

And then I'd tell the owner that I'd like to have it, but I am leaning toward a smaller press, and make him sweat about how HE is going to otherwise get rid of it.

Then offer him what you are willing to pay for a 40x60. What's the worst that can happen?
 
Like any other business decision, it all depends on the price.

One factor to consider is space, do you have enough.

A second is operating cost, it costs more to operate.

Third, being so large, it gives you a step up on other framers with smaller equipment if you promote it to its full advantage.... by attracting larger jobs that other can not do themselves as well as other framers.

I see it the same as the argument of ..... chops vs stocking length moulding with length moulding you have the ability to get jobs that others have to wait for materials, at a higher cost vs a lower inventory handling cost and slower service.
 
our 4468 is just right...40x60 are done all the time...have never had reason to go larger and it serves as a nice flat surface for several uses....if you can't justify the use of a larger unit why invest good $$$ in it.
?
 
I'm with Jerry on this one. Assuming space isn't an issue, it could be a huge asset if properly promoted. I would let every sign shop, framer and graphic artist know about it.
The retained value isn't so much a factor of how much he paid for it as how much someone is willing to give him for it. Compare also to roller presses in your research. I bought a floor model 42" wide heated roller press for $2100.00.
It wasn't all that long ago that one of the members here was given a Seal 48x96 heated vac-press because the owners were tired of it sitting around gathering dust. Check out comparables on all the equipment you are thinking about buying. You might be better off passing on this deal with so much good used equipment on the market, or it will give you a better sense of the current market value so you can make an educated offer.
 
Ummm.....wow: you grumblers are so helpful and quick with your responses. Fantastic food for thought.

In response to Jeff's question - in the 400 or so jobs I've done thus far, I've never wet-mounted. I am still very much learning the trade, but such is my mounting record thus far.

Perhaps it's worth noting that I live in a small town 40 miles north of a city with a population of 50,000, and 4 hours from the Seattle/Puget Sound region. The point being is that I am a fair distance from a market in which this press can be sold, or another press can be purchased without significant freight charges (the owner paid $1k to get this one here).

While I will continue to consider the arguments/recommendations for purchasing a smaller, more economical press, can some of you grumblers please shoot me your impression of FAIR market value for this press.

While "business is business," the nature of my relationship with the equipment owner (friend) and the implied arrangement for purchasing the business ("you buy all of this equipment") makes me need to explore and be able to support a fair market value.

Sorry for all the words, and I greatly appreciate your wonderful opinions and perspectives.
 
More food for thought, I bought a used Seal 4468H a few months ago right here on TheG for $1200 and got $600 in mount tissue thrown in on the deal. If you find one within a couple hours drive you can put in in a pickup or van without much problem. I'd give the monster back or offer a very cheap price as nobody really wants to pay to have it shipped.

Good luck,

framer
 
That's a nice machine. Personally I would try to purchase it for about 1/2 the price of new. No matter what way you look at it, it is still a used press. You may not need the larger press often but when you do it is great to have. There has been about 3 or 4 times in the past year I had to go to another to mount a larger piece. My press is a 4468H and for some is a large. A nice thing about the size is that you can mount more than one piece at a time. The majority of the time that I start up my press I mount 4 - 5 pieces - only a few times have I been in such a rush that I only did one or two items. If you decide to get a different press I would recommend that you make sure that you do get the vacuum press because it is a lot more versatile than just a heat press. Again, you have to think about how many times you will be using the press, the cost of this near new one versus a well used one that may need repair, and how much it will cost to get another one including the shipping cost.
 
It seems to me that half price is still a lot, considering you really don't need this equipment right now. And the owner won't be able to sell it that easily, so that is something to take into consideration (the friendship argument goes two ways....). Just imagine him trying to ship it to some other part of the country, if he finds an interested buyer.

Also, you talk about moving, are you sure your new location will have enough space?
 
My theory is to get the best equipment you can afford. If you can get this machine at 50 - 60% of original cost, then go ahead and buy it.

Trust me ... you will have times when a piece comes in that you will wish you had kept it. Same with a 60" table mat cutter. you could get away with the majority of your mats being less than 40" but what do you do when they larger ones come in.. try to find someone who will agree to cut your mats for you?

There have been quite a few times I wish I had this press instead of the 4468.

I could have saved some money and bought a 10 or 12" Pistorious chop saw but the 14" allows me to cut even more profiles.

The idea is to be prepared to do as many types of jobs as you can.

Also, my personal opinion... forget the clam shell presses.. too much work to do what a heat press will do in one step.
 
Mr. Buckfast, My name is Damon and I am sales rep. for a wholesale supplier out of Spokane and I can assure you that press is more than you will need however it can be a money maker if marketed correctly. Where is your frame shop? Let me know if I can be of any assistance. My cell phone number is 509-844-2676.
 
OR... you could buy my Hot Press Glass top, barely used and have it shipped to WA for less money. It's listed in the archives here if you search. You could SAVE close to $4,000 ;-)

The press includes everything, table, adhesives, new foam, release papers, and hanginng system. PM and I can send you pictures.

you should never feel obligated. Business is business.

Let me know if I can help

Elaine
 
A press that size could be a great asset. Not many framers could mount items on that scale, so you could put the word round other local framers that you can mount BIG things.
But it would have to earn it's living. You really need to be putting a lot of stuff though on a daily basis. It's hardly worth the electricity to warm it up once a week to do a couple of 10x8s.

Even if you don't get that many oversize jobs, you can mount a lot of smaller items in one go. All depends how much mounting you do.

I have had a 24x36 vac for the past ten years. Only had one or two jobs in that time that wouldn't fit. For these I used my old hardbed press. It's only a 22x18 platten, but you can actually mount things up to 50" wide and as long as you can get in the workshop. (Takes a while though.....)
 
points to consider-----it's BIG---it takes alot longer to heat to temp & it takes alot more power to do it than smaller models---not MAJOR points but to be considered over the long haul. the most positive point==it's BIG. certainly come in handy on that 'once in a blue moon' occasion(especially if noone else in your area has one). if you buy, be sure to market it/you to the area's shops!!!
 
Where is your shop at? I deliver to Wenatchee and sell alot of products for that press. Let me know if I can be of help. Thanks, Damon Jayeness Moulding Spokane
 
Bill makes the one point I was thinking about.... how much power to use it.

The good news is that you can mount several smaller items at the same time. Consolidate your mounting to one day a week or two. A 26x34 old mechanical to augment the vacuum is a great thing (and cheap used). Beat the mechanical work horse on a daily basis, use the huge when you need to.

At the class I just taught at Rob Markoff's facility, it was a very nice thing to press everyone's embossed mat projects in two pressings.

Make sure every art teacher at the college knows what you have and are able to do for them and their students. Don't overlook all the businesses that could use some oversized poster mounting.
 
If you have no mounting to do it can double-up as a sunbed.:cool:
(don't close the lid)

Or toasted sandwich maker.:)

No more ironing your clothes.:thumbsup:

Possibilities are endless.
 
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