dimpled mounts! help!

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silent pic

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i have been wanting to know the answer to this forever.
i just wonder if any of you will really know the answer. who will get the prize?
here goes.......
perfect sheet of fc 32x40 3/16" white.....
perfect print. no bends,nothing......
dry mount with seal's multi mount 180 degrees 4 minutes.
why then........
when i take the print out of the press after the cycle it has one or two small impressions.
they are perfectly round and about 1/8 to 1/4 " in diameter. the are very shallow but in the right light....noticeable. help.....
i have played with the heat,vacuum and time settings!
what is this caused by?
thanks in advance for all of your invaluable knowledge
beth


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You might try checking the top surface of the press. It may need cleaning. You will be surprised how the smallest little speck will leave a dimple in a print.

Sue
 
And I'll third that answer...

Dimples are caused by a protrusion that embosses the mounted surface. It could be a glueglob on the lid of your press, or a flake of aluminum (if you cut your own chops), or a shard of glass, or a speck of mat lint...or whatever.

Pimples are the opposite of dimples -- they are similar but *raised* areas on the mounted surface, caused by something *under* the print or on the mount board or on the mounting film/tissue.

Before mounting, we always check both sides of everything in the mount "package" before we turn on the vacuum pump.

If your problem is consistently the same, then it almost certainly is on the inside of your press's lid. You change your release paper often, right?

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Jim Miller, CPFcm; GAFP Committee Member
 
We eliminated that problem by switching to release board instead of release paper. Of course you need to make sure the release board is free from dust, etc. We brush off the f/c, the dry mount tissue, and the picture (both sides). Now do I get the lolly-pop. Good Luck.
 
Cody, you may get the raspberry from some. I love release board, but was vilified by another framer for using it. Actually, as we're now seeing and hearing, anyone seems to be able to say anything and someone will call it gospel. Which means he couldn't convince me.
 
I came to the conclusion years ago, there just isn't a perfect sheet of foam board when heat is applied. Just my 2 cents.
 
We received BB's new Speedmount yesterday. 15 seconds at 150 degrees for photos, using a release paper (not board.) We'll see about its staying power, but it does ease somewhat the fear of overfrying something. (If you can overfry, does that mean that you can fry in the first place? Or am I making stuff up again?)
 
Try cleaning your press with that goop mechanics use to clean their hands. Get the kind that has pumice mixed in with it, the small amount of gritt helps a lot.
Use water and lots of bar towles to clean off the press lid when you are thru. Blow out your entire press with air. Run your hands over the lid after you've finished, if you feel anything, no matter how small, get it off. You should not have any problems if you do this at least once a month or more depending on your volume.
 
Originally posted by MerpsMom:
"I love release board, but was vilified by another framer for using it...."

What's the problem with release board? We use both -- Patricia prefers paper, but I like the boards.

Results are similar, and we've had no trouble either way. But it is necessary to change out the boards just as you would paper. After several uses, it loses its non-stick properties.

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Jim Miller, CPFcm; GAFP Committee Member
 
Hi, Jim. I've found the boards to last longer than the paper; and at their price, I would hope so. I don't THINK I've been going past the shelflife, but will revisit the issue next time.

Back to the Speedmount, anyone else using it yet?

Hope everyone had a good turkey day.
 
Just remember .... when you are carefully cleaning the platen on your press, be sure that you do NOT scratch the surface. If you you will have more than dimples to worry about!!!!
 
Silent Pic, I've had those indentations happen to me, and I think it could be the foamcore causing it. You may want to try a different brand, and see if it still happens.
 
thank you for all the wonderful responses to my question. i did forget to add.......this is a brand brand new new press. i have dry mounted with it about 4x. i know that a cleaning is not the problem. i have checked the press and it is clean.
i think the fc i use is very good....beinfang product from larson.
these dimples are still a mystery to me.....
 
Try checking your release paper. ATG gets all over everything. A small amount on the release paper can cause a crater in a drymount.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
I think it is time that refer back to the framing rules... we had a few about dry-mounting.

1) No scissors in the press.
2) No bumpons under the poster, in the press. (Though I do wonder about the square bumpons - would they melt in the press?) (Melts on the wall, not in the press?)
3) No timers under the poster, in the press.
4) Always check the serface of the press.

(Did someone move my soap box?)


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Sue May
smile.gif

"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest can over come it!"

[This message has been edited by Susan May (edited November 24, 2000).]
 
The following is just for grins:

We thought we would try a canvas transfer. Afterall the reps at the show said it was easy to do. We laminated our floral poster that was laying around inventory. We soaked. We removed the paper backing. We trimmed the canvas and the laminate with our scissors. We set the press. We put the piece in the press. We cleaned up the huge mess. The backing paper does not give up that easily. We put the tools away. Oh my gosh the tools. The scissors were no where to be found. The scissors we figured were thrown in the trash with all that backing paper. The timer went off. We pulled the piece out of the press. We found the scissors, very nicely mounted under the print on the canvas. LOL we all rolled on the floor. Good thing we try new processes out first.


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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[This message has been edited by ArtLady (edited November 24, 2000).]
 
since i started this whole thing i must tell my tale......
years ago when i was a young framer i was dry mounting actually on a mechanical press ( a far cry from my vacuseal )
... and i accidentlly pressed a mat corner sample within the layers of a clients print.... this was a very memorable occasion.
needless to say i have never made that mistake again !
live and learn !
beth
 
Art Lady, sounds like you invented a new type of art. Scissors ready & waiting to cut the beautiful flowers in the floral. Or how about a pencil under a letter. Oh I'm sure y'all will think of others.
biggrin.gif
 
Several years ago I was whining to my LJ rep about air pockets in the Beinfang (or is it Bienfang?) boards. He said that while FoamCor brand takes a 3/16" sheet of foam and squishes it down to make a 1/8" sheet,
B--nfang starts with a 1/8" sheet - hence the air pockets, hence the odd depressions when dry mounting. So I switched brands and have had fewer problems. Except for the sheet that had what appeared to be a dead mouse embedded in it. No one wants to hear THAT story, do they? Kit

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Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
 
Your LJ rep has got it wrong. We have sold Bienfang/Hunt/Seal Foam Board for 15 years. Fome-Cor (the old Monsanto and now International Paper product) is less dense and tends to have sink holes and air pockets in it. The board was originally designed for silkscreening and die cutting due to it's crushable foam, and was then picked up by the framing industry to use for drymounting. High temperatures combined with pressure was not a concern of the printing industry.

Bienfang Foam Board, now SEAL Brands, was introduced later for the art and frame industry and was developed to overcome the sinkhole and airpocket problem that is a concern to the framing industry when the board is used in heat presses with mechanical or vacuum pressure.

Bienfang product has "memory" which means that when you push down on the board with a finger it wants to return to the original thickness due to the "spring" of the board. Fome-Cor/IP stays indented when pushed on due to the "crushable foam" designed for die cutting. Bienfang makes a board identical to Fome-Cor/IP and it is called "PilloCore." Both are used in the Commercial Graphics industry when they die cut the board with an intricate pattern want to give the board
some dimensional effects by embossing/debossing to highlight faces or images that have been printed or mounted on the board. When the die comes down to "stamp" out the image, the edges of the board "close" so that the foam does not show. This is possible due to the "crushable" foam under pressure of the die plates. You see these board used
for in retail stores for point of purchase displays, and movie standees.

Bienfang 3/16 Foam Board is made in the full 3/16" thickness. Bienfang 1/8 Foam Board is made in the full 1/8" thickness. Both with the resilient, "memory" foam. Because IP only manufactures a crushable foam for the Graphics industry, they have the ability to compress it down to an 1/8" from 3/16" foam. The graphics industry does not use
1/8 boards, so to compete with Hunt, they "squish" their foam down to make an 1/8 product for Framers.

Bienfang board is definitely denser than the Fome-Cor/IP product. To see, slice a "thin" strip of Bienfang and IP about 1/16" thick and hold
them up to the light. You will be surprised at what you see. It's like
comparing apples to oranges, the Bienfang will be much more solid and the Fome-Cor/IP will reveal lots of voids and holes due to the "crushable", collapsible foam.

However keep in mind that with millions of feet of board rolling through presses 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, all of the board companies and there are about seven of them, board can end up with some imperfections. It is likely that dimples (along with creases or other indentations) occur due to damaged release paper or release board that is "stamping" debris into the image. Either the debris can be cleaned off of a release board, or release paper should be discarded an replaced with a new sheet.

If they are "pimples" (raised), it could be static related and sucking debris into the mounting assembly. There are static eliminating products available to help avoid this problem. Floor mats for static are available to eliminate static that can be placed by the work table and/or press. As always, keep your area as clean as possible.

Alan Sturgess

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Accent Art Distributors Ltd
40 East 60th Avenue, Vancouver Canada, eh!

"The Retailer's Wholeslaler, Not the Retailing Wholesaler."

[This message has been edited by Alan Sturgess (edited November 27, 2000).]
 
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