Design Counter Surface

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Emibub

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Nov 2, 2001
Posts
9,246
Loc
Centennial, CO, USA
Hi everybody, I am considering using aluminum for my design counter. Right now I have white melamine which I used as a very cheap fix to get rid of the carpetting which I don't care for. Before I go to the expense I wonder if there are any drawbacks. Anybody use it before? I'd love opinions. I need something very smooth and clean looking. Plus I think it will be very retro looking also.
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Kathy
Out on a Whim Custom Framing
 
Hi Kathy,

First make sure that the surface won't leave a residue if art of mats are rubbed on it. stainless steal might be a better option.

We make our own from formica and MDF board (realy pretty easy).
 
Exactly what I need to know Dave. I saw in a book where they had converted an old kitchen table with aluminum and it looked so cool. I never thought about it rubbing off. I knew you grumblers would have ideas. Formica and MDF.....tell me more. :eek:

Kathy
Out on a Whim Custom Framing
 
Kathy

Have you considered using two pedestals with a glass counter top it can give a great sense of space, the guys who fixed your window should be able to get you the toughened glass, the pedestals could be made in the form of lockers/presses, in other words like a business desk but with a glass top.
 
I used to have carpeting-what a pain! Too much lint and when a customer plopped down a piece with broken glass it was nearly impossible to vaccuum all the chips out of the carpet. Now we cover the table with foamboard and then black kraft paper. We wrap the paper around the edge and tape it under the lip. It is changed EVERY week so it always looks crisp and clean. We started covering our work tables with foamboard and black kraft also. The padding of the foamboard is gentle on the frames, and the black kraft makes it easier to see lint when we clean the glass. It's cheap, it looks good good, and it's kind to art and frames.
 
I built my customer counter about 12 years ago and the dimensions were pretty much dictated by the top. The local lumber yard had a custom made formica kitchen counter that was built 12 ft. long instead of 14 ft. long as the customer wanted. They sold it to me for a fraction of the actual price and I cut off the splash board on the back and the raised rollover on the front, faced the counter top with 3/4"x2" solid oak to match the other tables I built, and finished everything in a golden oak stain.

It is flat, smooth, impervious to just about anything spilled on it, and cleans up with glass cleaner and a cloth. It is wide enough to hold most pieces brought into my gallery and long enough to give plenty of room for mat board sample racks on one end, little impulse items on the other, and about 6 ft. of design space in the middle for layout of matting and framing.

FGII
 
We just finished ours ..... It is a 16 foot long counter with storage behind. It is covered in a matte black laminate ( like formica). We have 6 pendant lights over this. It is really working out well . Plenty of room for mat samples. We can design two or three large orders at the same time.

Judy Nansel CPF®
 
Our design counter is 12 feet long and 4 feet wide. It is made of MDF board. We sealed it with several coats of polyurethane varnish. On top of that we keep a full sheet of matboard sealed with matte print guard. It is the exact same color as the Artcare board we use for mounting things like stitcheries. (We used to put a scrap piece of the Artcare board under stitcheries while designing... but, too often, it would get dented by an elbow...) Someday, I hope we will cover the tabletop with formica (matching the Artcare board, of course.)
 
One thing about a metal table top--it is often cold to the touch. You'll be touching it a lot and if you are like me, leaning on it. It's also noisy. Same thing with stone -- ie granite, though it is georgeous. Some of the newer kitchen countertop products are wonderfull -- go shopping the check them all out!
 
To make a counter top.

Cut MDF board to size and shape of counter less 3/4" around. I use 2 layers of 5/8" and stager the seams if counter is over 8'.

Apply 3/4" x 1 1/2" solid wood around parimiter of the MDF, use glue and finish nails being carefull to keep the nails in the lower half of the board.

Apply contact cement to the counter top and the back of the formica. Let dry as per cement derections.

Place dowel rods of bamboo plant stakes (cheaper) on the counter top about every 6". These will keep the two surfaces from coming in contact with each other untill were ready.

Lay your formice face up on the counter top with the dowels between the surfaces.

Starting at one end press the surfaces together with a roller and a lot of pressure. Remove the next dowel and repeat. You only get one shot at this to get all the bubbles out so be carefull.

After the surfaces are securly bonded and set. trim the formica to rough size of top. Using a router with a ball bearing chamfer, round over, or other bit trim the formica.(safety glasses are a must!). This will thim the wood board at the same time giving you a decritve edge.

Sand and stain the wood edge being carefull to keep the stain off of the formica (some finishes may attak the plastic).

Stand back and admire your fine work and think about the money you saved over having a custom counter made.

Yes I know that this is like our customers framing at home to save a buck.
 
I also use kitchen counter base units under the counter tops. The 18" drawer units will hold the 2 3/4 mat samples very nicley.

Place a sample in the drawer and mark were the inside corner will fall. Screw in a 1x1 the depth of the drawer to support the samples.
 
Thanks for all the replys guys. This gives me lots to consider. I never considered the metal would get cold. I also wondered about glare from overhead lights. I will go check out the formica at Home Depot. I love the idea of glass too. Thanks, maybe I'll post a picture if it turns out!

Kathy
Out on a Whim custom Framing
 
We used to have boring light gray formica tops because they are great neutral background when selecting colors for mouldings and mats with art - No immediate distractions. We now have 1" thick glass tops 'cuz were thought they would look kewl. They look great on top of welded steel table frames but they need cleaning constantly. Someday we'll go back to boring light gray.
 
My design counter is white melamine and I have a large mirror at 45 degrees above it so the customer can stand back and see the design, as if it were hanging on the wall.

I get lots of good comments about the mirror from customers.
 
Originally posted by osgood:
I have a large mirror at 45 degrees above it so the customer can stand back and see the design, as if it were hanging on the wall.

I get lots of good comments about the mirror from customers.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, Osgood, but I find myself wondering if your design mirror has a sticker that says, "Objects are larger than they appear in the mirror" or if that's just on the other overhead mirror you mentioned a while ago?

I hope that wasn't supposed to be a secret.
 
Boring gray formica, three of them, eleven feet long each. Easy to clean, no distractions. Metal tops are not a great idea. They will fingerprint and be a major pain to keep clean and sharp looking. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

John
 
Osgood, Have any customers wanted to buy that mirror? I bet a husband could use it in the bedroom while he's taking a nap. Then when the wife looks into the room, she'll mistake his relection for him standing up. Ooops, Warped alert.
 
Mine is 14 feet long. Don't mean to boast, but it is 4 feet wide as well ;).

The table is made of birch and cherry wood with a glass top. It looks very elegant - a look I want to convey to the customer- and the cherry moulding around the top edge, milled to fit the glass snugly, adds a nice touch.

If you choose to use a glass top be careful with the position of your overhead lighting. Since I don't know of reflection control glass thick enough to hold up to the pounding of a worktable, I went with clear glass. The resulting reflection is somewhat distracting from some positions. I'll need to massage my lighting a bit to make it a more pleasing environment.
 
My 4' x 8' sales counter is surfaced with green marble pattern ceramic tiles that are 12" square. They match the tiles that form a 4' x 4' square on the floor right inside of the two front entry doors.
The countertop has been in place for 9 years and is in as good a shape as the day it was built.

I will be opening a second location about a year from now and I am considering Silestone which is an "engineered" quartz product used for kitchen and bath countertops.
 
I have a 900 x 600 mirror screwed to the ceiling above my design table and an A4 mirror on the table. The whole of the table is visable in the A4. Ceiling height is a bit over 3 m .You need to ofset things a little so that the A4 can be placed on the edge of the table avoid lights etc.Table is made from a standard sheet of melomine 8'x4'edged in timber .My counter which is mainly used for wrap up I am considering making up with strips of local timber that I make moulding from.Reckon to estapol it will get scratched a light sand and fresh coat of varnish helps, maybe glass is the answer? Brian Currry Aussie.
 
Silestone is absolutely wonderful. We had our whole kitchen re-done in it. It doesn't scratch and is extremely durable. It also comes in the most wonderful colours which nothing else can match the intensity (think cobalt blue which has a three dimensional effect). I would use this in my next location.
For practicality, grey tones are the best and I think John Gornall expained it to me best quite awhile ago; something like most colours in a spectrum equal grey. Our counter is a grey green made up of five coats of colour. It looks just like the Roma Giovanni artichoke frame. It matches wonderfully with our gold gilded ceiling, old fir floors, and plain grey walls.
Formica or Wilsonart actually has a laminate that looks like polished stainless steel.
 
Funny this thread got brought back up this week. I am just starting my counter redo next week. I was pretty much discouraged from stainless steel so I am going with formica. I am going either with a straight black or some sort of marbleized variation. When I worked at Aaron Bros. their new store concepts had black counters and I remember liking working on them. They were high maintenance for fingerprints, but I don't think nearly as badly as stainless steel. I actually have this chip from Wilsonart called "Spektrum" that I would love to use. It literally has every color of the spectrum in it. All the colors are very tiny little dots so I don't think it would be distracting but I think a little caution should be used here.

But Lise said Wilson has a stainless steel look, I am going to have to check that out before I make my final decision........
 
I've worked with several types of surfaces and when I relocated a couple years ago, I left the carpeted top behind and opted for hard wood.
We went to HD and bought a bundle of oak tongue-in-groove flooring. (the old fashioned kind) My husband topped my design table with it and I would not go to anything else now. I never have to clean it except for normal upkeep, no fingerprints and a satin finish. Matches the bent wood bar stools I have.
 
:eek: Hard wood, One more option. I would never have even thought about hardwood. The guy who is doing this for me is starting next week. I thought I had made a choice. What to do, what to do? :confused:
 
Originally posted by emibub:
Hi everybody, I am considering using aluminum for my design counter. Right now I have white melamine which I used as a very cheap fix to get rid of the carpetting which I don't care for. Before I go to the expense I wonder if there are any drawbacks. Anybody use it before? I'd love opinions. I need something very smooth and clean looking. Plus I think it will be very retro looking also.
icon21.gif


Kathy
Out on a Whim Custom Framing
Click to expand...
 
Welcome BC. Another Aussie and a Banana Bender no less. You are allowed to be as rude as you like on warped coz them yanks is a long way away and they're upsode down ass well. We'll see if Ron can can find Yandina on his map. Regards Alan
 
Yandina is 105km north of Brisbane, 7km north of Nambour on the Bruce Highway, Sunshine Coast.

What's a km?
 
We use slotted storage cabinets that have the 3 solid sides backed with the same carpet as the floor so there is a nice natural flow to the table and a great completed project storage area.There is 3/4" thick slab of marble on top. It is beautiful, withstands anything the customer slaps on it, hard as heck to move, and super easy to clean. It'll look great forever and for the cost it had better.
 
Frame folk

I'm surprised at how few , if any of you mentioned a easel type design table. After doing that dangerous dance of the client saying "let me hold it up for you - you're the expert" one two many times I came up with a way we can both get back from the design and assess it. I've been using this set up for about 5 years now and having just moved (again!), this latest incarnation is the best by far. At 7 feet by 4 feet this 5/8 plywood is about 3 1/2 feet off the ground and about a foot and 1/2 away from the wall at the bottom affixed to the wall at the top. It is covered with velcro sensitive, neutrally colored fabric that can be swapped out every 6 to 8 months or so, or as needed. I put a length of moulding along the bottom to support whatever needs it (mat board not being used) but I use strips of hook velcro, little foam core squares with velcro and the frames themselves to hold mats and the art together. I am fortunate to have about 8 feet of room in front of the design area so the client (and I ) can back up and get a good approximation of how the piece will look on the wall.

I built a mat rack underneath the easel that runs the length of the area - 9 feet (using 3 lengths of metal moulding shaped in the ubiquitous triangle and supported at a couple of points) and this makes reaching for mats soooooo much easier. I only show acid free but quite a few brands so one half is for colors and the other half has the rag samples, specialty mats (those costly ones that if you misprice you cry, cry cry), all the whites (divided into 3 sections - white, off white and cream) Intaglio, hand wrapped and regular fabric mats and everything else. Since I'm struggling with the 2 3/4 vs 4 inch thing, I made the dividers 5 inches wide out of the appropriate color and labeled them with big white computer generated tags so they are very visible.

My 2 cents

Pam MacFadden
 
Pam;
You're 2¢ worth is worth a lot. I like your idea of using an entire 4x8' velcro covered board for a design easel. When I had a retail store I had a 4x4 section of velcro covered wall that I used pretty much the same way as you use yours. I didn't have the wall tilted out at the bottom though so always fought with the artwork having to velcro it in several places to get it to stay flat to the wall. Putting the matboard samples under it must look and work great. If I ever have another store I'm going to set it up just the way you described. Thanks!
 
I think The Great Frame Up has the best system I have ever seen. They have the display board along a wall. The one I've seen doesn't even use an actual counter. They use this display board and then they have magnets that they use to hold the artwork up. They have stools for the customers to sit on. It is the best system I have ever seen. I think the customer gets a better view and plus it kind of takes them out of the equation, kind of like spectators. I'm sure it is a patented design. But boy was it cool!
 
Kathy

The only problem with magnets I can see is that you would have to adhere them to every thing you use in your framing display - mat and moulding samples. The velcro sensitive fabric does the same thing but with a much softer touch and because samples come with velcro on them, the system is already in place (except when you're working late at night all alone like I am tonight and the framing 'geists decide to play with your mind and make all the moulding on one row fall down to the ground in a grand crescendo of chevron noise. Enough to wake the dead! ! ! ) .

I can't stress enough how great it has been for the client and me to be able to get back from the art. Like you mentioned, I've got chairs for the client and anyone else who want to get involved, to just sit back, relax and enjoy the show while I swap around board and moulding samples for them. As for the magnets, there are some serigraphs and other types of art I would be hesitant to put anything hard like a magnet on.

Pam MacFadden
Miami, FL
 
We need a Great Frame up person to chime in, I might be explaining it wrong. Because you are right, what a pain having to put magnets on everything. For all I know it was all done with smoke and mirrors. We need to ask Mike Lacompte, he is the GFU man.
 
The Frame Up that was in town (closed about 2 years ago) had this magnetic system. It seemed interesting till I saw them working with it. Now theirs was low to the ground with the top at 5". they were craling around on all fours. Not a good look.
 
Speaking of "smoke and mirrors".We have a mirror table with a mirror at a 45 degree angle like this .... /__ .
The mirror is in a black metal frame ( I think Designer 87 profile). We have used this system for years . The art sits flat on the table. The image is backwords when you look at it but.... we are looking at color and design . There is no damage to the art as it sits flat on the table. Our customers love it.

Judy Nansel CPF
( proud FramerSelect member)
 
Has anyone tried using a PC internet camera hooked up to a dedicated monitor. This might do the same as your mirror with out the view block that the mirror has.
 
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