Delicate silk painting

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Emibub

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Nov 2, 2001
Posts
9,246
Loc
Centennial, CO, USA
Okay, I took this order knowing full well that they weren't going to look perfect. My client brought in these very old silk paintings that had been framed with cardboard. There was something on the back indicating the last time they were framed it was 1949. They had been framed with the glass right up against them. There obviously had been some moisture at one time because you could see water lines along the edges and the fabric itself is very ripply.

I took one apart in front of the client to see what we were dealing with and I informed her the ripples weren't coming out. I advised mats and the whole conservation treatment which she agreed to because they are from the family.

Now that I am framing them I am not happy with the way they look. They looked flatter with the glass up against them. Now that there are mats I just am not happy with the appearance. I did advise her of this but I just want them better.

Any ideas on flattening them? Heat? Archive mount? She isn't particularly concerned if I have to permanently attach them. She is more concerned with keeping them in one piece. Also they are very very flimsy. There are a couple of holes that appeared miniscule with cardboard behind them, but they seem huge with foamcore behind them. I have handled lots of old fabrics being a collector of odds and ends and I believe the term for the delicate condition would be that it is ready to shatter. Mylar encapsulation? I'm just doing some free thinking here. As I write this I have already discounted the fusion idea, they are so see through that it would show through.

I think I covered my bases with the delicate nature of the fabric but I just personally want to know if there is anything else out there. Help!
 
Well of course you're not going to fusion them! :rolleyes:

Can you post a photo (with side lighting if you can - to show ripples)? Was there any ghosting from the paint on the glass when you unframed them? I have a couple of ideas that might work, but would rather see them first.

Rebecca
 
Kathy, would mounting the pieces on a mat board the same color as the silk help with the holes and see-through problem?

Once silk has shattered, I don't think there's anything that can be done to save it. (Expecting Rebecca to chime in on this subject any minute now)

Oh, never mind - she beat me to it.

Are the pieces too fragile to sew down?

Kit
 
Rebecca, this is the best I can do. I tried holding it up and taking a picture with the other hand and I actually tore it on the corner. So now I am afraid of them too. Not to mention I am trying to take a picture and I am having a problem with one of my eyes(blocked tear duct/conjunctivitis due to a little fellow I took for a walk a couple of weeks ago)so my focus just isn't good.

There was no ghosting when I removed the glass. But I have to say after handling them for the picture they are 10 times more fragile than I thought.

I know I covered my bases with the client(she said with some desperation) but we all know how selective hearing is. Honestly if I thought they were this fragile I would possibly not have taken the order.

Any help would be wonderful.

PA280008.JPG
 
Wow Kathy - that's a beauty. And scary! I can think of two ways to do it.

One is to send it to a conservator to have it backed with adhesive to a similarly colored silk. I don't do that, but if client decides to go this route, I can help you find someone if you're not already hooked up.

The other is to put it in a press mount. The general description of how a press mount works is in the thread "Mounting a dark colored thin silk batik". I've only seen press mounts used on embroideries, not paintings. Ordinarily I wouldn't suggest putting acrylic right up against paint, but this is kind of a desperate situation isn't it? And it is reversible! If you and client decide on this, I'll try to help with more details on technique.

I would love to hear what Hugh has to say about this one. It's a very interesting problem, and I think he will have some new and good ideas.

Rebecca
 
You guys are amazingly helpful. I cannot get over the immediate answers you can get here.

Rebecca, I read the thread and I think it sounds perfect. The padding in the backing board I assume would help flatten the ripples? Plus the plexi right on top would help also? I don't think any pins are going to hold in this stuff. I had no idea how fragile it was until I held it up to take the picture. My big question now is if the plexi sits on top of the image does the mat sit on top of the plexi and then the glass sit on top of the mat?

This is going to be more involved than I thought. I was asking for asthetic reasons I thought. But it looks like this will be the only way to mount them. I know the client isn't going to want to pay for a conservator. If I can get this press mount to work I will add something to the charge but I will end up eating some of the cost. I didn't forsee these difficulties when I quoted the price. But I will be learning a new process and that will make it worth it. Of course the next one that comes along will have to pay for the full treatment.
 
I'd do a static mount on plexiglas.. it really does hold with no visible means of support, you can put a matboard of similar color to the 'hoy' place behind it, and it might make it flatter. Can't hurt to give it a try..Or go with Rebecca...
 
Rebecca, I'm having a "Medicare Moment" morning. I read the thread that you referenced above, but I'm not clear as to what the pins go into. Is it the piece being framed or the backing cloth? :confused:
 
Ah, if I only had a digital camera.

First - I think Kathy and Ellen are right - pins won't help, and will probably hurt this particular silk. I think the press mount will press out the ripples. Because this piece is so fragile, you might want to experiment with different thickness of Plexi before you actually put the painting in the mount, to make sure there won't be any bowing at all. Also, have one of those anti-static guns (piazo electric crystal?) that used to be available (maybe still are?)at vinyl record stores handy, in case you need to take the Plexi off the painting for adjustments etc. Otherwise the Plexi static might rip the silk in half when it's removed!

Kathy - this is an aesthetic question, outside of my field - but here goes anyway. If you do go the press mount route, do you even need the mat and glass? Couldn't the Plexi be the glazing, and if you needed to cover up the edges, wouldn't a fillet on the outside of the Plexi work?

Now I'll try to explain the pin thing.
Imagine the padded backboard laying flat on a table. The textile (not Kathy's!)is lying on the backboard, centered. The pin slides in horizontally - parallel to the table top - through the edge of the textile, then through the backing fabric and then through the Insulate padding. The horizontal shaft ends up being "buried" in the Insulate, and only the head of the pin is visible - holding the edge of the textile in place. This is repeated every few inches - as little or as much as is needed by the particular textile - around the perimeter of the textile.

Insect pins are a little different than regular ones - they are very, very thin, and their little head is spherical - the one's I use (I think Elephant brand, made in Europe somewhere) have kind of a yellow colored head. The shaft can be either stainless or black lacquer.

Hope this is clearer!

I'd still be interested to hear what Hugh has to say - he might have a whole different strategy to offer.

Rebecca
 
Thanks, Rebecca! I just wanted to be sure that I was seeing this the way that you intended. I get quite a lot of textiles in my shop, and this is the way that I ususally mount them. I have never thought of insect pins, though. I've always used stainless, short silk pins for very fragile textiles. For open weave textiles, I use stainless "t" pins. Also, Kentronics is making a new pizoelectric antistatic device just for the framing industry. They had a prototype at the Atlanta Show. It is supposed to be out by mid-November, if I remember correctly. You hook it up to a can of canned air, and it is powered by a AA battery. Looked pretty neat when I looked at it.
 
Non glare acrylic might be nice on this piece. It does not diffuse the image like ng glass does. A hand covered silk mat or silk covered liner and fillet would be great on top of the acrylic.
 
Perhaps I wasn't clear... the plexi goes BEHIND the silk, (with either the brown paper left on the back or else removed to allow another mat to show through to disguise the holey places) rag mats and uvf glazing complete the ensemble... That way it is a good thing that the silk and plexi are attracted... it is a great way to use use up scraps of plexi that always seem to have just a little mar on them.. but are too good/big to throw away... it is handy being a packrat sometimes...
 
Ellen's static mount is what I used on a similar piece a couple of weeks ago. The only problem I had was the piece was so big and had sagged for so long that the static charge was not enough to keep the wrinkles out. Since the piece already had adhesive residue on the edges from previous taping, I use acid free tape to adhere and pull the wrinkles out just enough to hold it.

Other than the problems with something so old and wrinkled, I would say that the static mount is a method that works.
 
Thanks for everybody's advice. I thought I should let you know what I ended up doing.

I used Ellen's idea of the basic static mount. I tried putting something similarly colored behind the plexi to hide the holes, but it was too shiny. So, what I did was cut off excess bits of fabric :eek: from the edge and static mounted those just behind the holes. It looks really good.

I decided to not get more involved than that due to time issues and to tell you the truth the more I handled them the more I was uncomfortable handling them. They are very very fragile. I am going to advise customer of the option of having a conservator strengthening them. I just know from my conversation with her she is not looking to spend any more money. I figure they were framed with cardboard and glass smooshed right up against them for fifty years. They at least have some breathing room and proper glass on them. Thanks again for all ideas.
 
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