dealing with delinquent customers

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celeste_k

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Mar 26, 2002
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pennsylvania
How do you handle a customer that brings something in to be framed, pays the deposit, and is never seen again? I'm talking months, or years, even. No matter how many times you call and they say, "I'll be in later this week to pick it up.", they never show up.
We have a few of these customers, and frankly we don't have the space to store stuff for extended periods of time, but I don't think it's right to get rid of anything.... How do you get them to come in?
 
After six months, send them a letter thanking them for choosing your company to store their fine art works. Tell them that the first six months has always been at no charge to them, since they had it framed with your company. After six months it's 20-30-40 $ per month, depending on the space it is taking up. Hold them to it. The most rent I have ever collected was a little over $2000.00 for storing around thirty pictures that had been in a fire.

John
 
The is also Small Claims Court. The judge will determine for a small fee who has possession and ask the other party to pay. If they don't might get a judgement and keep their project. At least it will be resolved.
 
That was a consistent problem at the shop I used to work at. Since we were located in a college tow, it was very common to have some of the kids drop stuff off for framing, leave the deposit, the disappear,never to be heard from again. Although, this situation wasn't limited to the college kids either.

What we used to do was every sixth months go through everything that we had still in-house, and recall everyone, requesting that they come in to pick up their art as soon as possiblt. Sometimes the customers would show up right away, claiming embarassment that it had taken so long to come back. If we didn't hear from the customer within 2-3 months after the call, we sent a final letter to them that unless the work was picked up by a certain date, the art would be removed from the frame, stored, and the framing materials recycled. Often times we would get the letter back, as the customer had moved. In which case, we would recycle the art. A few times, we have even put the art (as long as not personal photos and such) in the gallery, and sold it at a reduced price. HOWEVER, please note that those cases were rare.

It all comes down to how long you want to hold on to things. All the above stuff happened when some of the art had been sitting for three years or more! I had even seen stuff that had been sitting there since '93!! Your shop isn't a storage bin, so you shouldn;t be expected to treat it as such.

Although I always wondered if we could get away with charging storage fees...:)
 
You'll only be able to collect storage fees if and when they finally come in. (Sorry to point out the obvious here.) But the threat of storage fees may motivate some into swifter action.

I haven't had a lot of these cases. When I do, I usually follow the dismantle and recycle or reuse notion outlined above. In one of the very rare cases where I actually disposed of some framed items (after more than five years of storage) the customer came in less than a week after her items went into the dumpster.
 
Return the deposit? heck no
As it is you are out the materials and labor to assemble and disassemble the piece. (and space to store it/keep reminding them)

I wouldn't...

Mike
 
I had a guy frame his tennis awards (from college) and then never come back in despite repeated calls.If I called once, I called 20 times. Finally, a "friend" of his gave me his cell phone number. I reached him at the U.S. OPEN tennis matches. He was courtside watching a match.

Me - "Hello, ------? This is "Curly"
Him - "How did you get this number, I'm at the U.S. OPEN"
Crowd - "OHHHHHHHHHHHH!"
Me - "A mutual friend. When are you going to pay for your pictures"
Him - "I decided I don't want them anymore"
Crowd -"AHHHHHHHHHH! YEAH! [applause]"
Me - "You owe me alot of money"
Him - "Tough"
Me - "Thanks, ***Hole"

With a little "White Out" and a Caligraphy pen, my driver is one of the best Tennis players around!
I feel better.
BTW. The mats/frames became a great deal for another client.
 
Celeste,

In Pennsylvania businesses are required to report yearly on unclaimed property prior to disposition. You can get details at 800-379-3999 or www.patreasury.org. It is called Unclaimed Property Reporting.
 
In the early days we did the 50% up front deposit on custom framing... and ran into this very problem, having to inventory abandoned framing orders year after year, calling and re-calling customers. After a couple of years of holding some things, they went up on the gallery wall with a 'sale' tag on them and were sold at the framing cost (with the customer's artwork in, unless it was family portrait in which case we could only recycle the frame).
Now the policy is full payment up front! You'd be surprised how few people will leave their order sitting in your shop after it's completed, when they've paid for it all! They also sign a waiver on the order form stating that we are not responsible for items left beyond 60 days. You might try all or some of that to help reduce your 'storage problem'. (Once the customer is gone it's very difficult to charge them storage fees if they never come back).
Sure, we get some raised eyebrows when we ask for the payment up front, but we simply explain that it's our policy (the policy is also stated on the order form) so nobody feels like their the exception to the rule. A common question might be: "What if I'm not happy with the job when I pick it up, and I've already paid?"
Well, we guarantee our work and our supplier guarantees their frames, so if there's a quality issue we're more than happy to replace or re-do what needs be. That's more than fair, and we haven't had anyone refuse to leave their order based on our payment policy.
Hope that helps :cool:
 
Mr. Mystery's right: gitcher money up front, and I don't care how long I store it. If I've got 100% of all the money at the time the orderis placed, I don't care when you pick it up. And, right again, Mystery: when I've got your money, you're going to come get it sooner than later.

Only time we do a credit thing or a deposit thing is with corporate accounts and, in fact, we've even stopped doing work for ttwo of them because they paid in 120 days plus

Cash flow is the key to success in a small business. Ask my competitors who aren't here anymore.
 
I totally agree with you guys. And thank you for pointing out that you can't get storage fees if they never come back. That was a major "Duh!" for me.

Where I was before, we only required 30% as a deposit (not my rules), and sometimes that was a stretch. My favorite excuse not to give a deposit was "But you have my artwork.." Right, like if they took a car to be customer detailed, they'd weasel out of the deposit with "but you have my car..." In my mind, it makes sense to give something in advance for services rendered, no matter if you are turning over an item to be worked on or not.

I am currently working at 50% deposit on all orders and have had few, if any, problems with this. My only problem with this was one of my first customers dropped off several pieces to be framed, but claimed he did not have a business check with him, and he'd bring it in on Monday. Well, Monday came, and I needed to pad my order, so I ordered all the materials for the order. That afternoon, he still hadn;t shown up, and I called. I was told someone would be down soon. I finished the entire order, 13 pieces in all, and called the customer. It took 2 weeks(!) for someone to come in with any money, and when they did, it was for half the amount. I gave the guy half of the order (he wanted to take more, but NO WAY!), and he promised someone would be in the following week with the balance and to pick up the rest of the work. After 3 weeks and probably 5-6 calls by myself and Mike, this guy came in with the balance and picked up the rest of the work, but was rather rude about it. I learned my lesson with that. NEVER again!
 
Andy, I had an identical situation the first month I was opened. The customer brought in 3 pictures, we designed and finalized all three and then I mentioned the deposit and she said she didn't have her checkbook could she come back in a couple of days. I explained I would put the order on hold until I received the deposit. I didn't hear from her after 3 days and I too needed to pad an order so I went ahead and ordered the supplies and completed the orders. When she came to pick up she informed me she could only take one out of hock and she would be back for the others. I told her I didn't usually operate that way but since I was new I didn't belabour the point. She placed those orders in November and just last week she picked up the last one. At least eventually I did get all my money............never again, at least not with somebody I don't know.
 
A friend retired a few years ago, and then he sold his home of 20 plus years. On one visit to my shop recently, he was reminded of a picture that he had framed at another frame shop in 1978. It was a drawing of his old house, that he never bothered to pick up from the frame shop. They were still in business, so I suggested that he call them, just for the heck of it. After a wait of a few minutes, they said "yeah, it's here", so he went to pick it up 22 years later. He didn't remember the exact price at the counter, but questioned what they were now charging him, so they had to give him the old 1978 price (afraid he wouldn't take it, I guess). He said that a voice from the back room yelled "Give it to him".

Then he told the sales lady that she was the one who originally waited on him, except that perhaps her hair was darker then, without the gray.

I hope he never asks me to reframe it for him.
 
We have our customers sign the workorder. (You must have a signiture, and they must have a copy!)

On the form is the following:
"NO RETURNS OR EXCHANGES WITHOUT RECIEPT.

FAMILY CRAFTS, INC. IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ITEMS LEFT MORE THAN 30 DAYS AFTER NOTIFICATION OF WORK COMPLETION. $10 PER WEEK STORAGE CHARGE STARTING AT 30 DAYS"

So far, we have not had too many people leave us with their artwork for a long time. (But we have had our few.)

We just did some framing for a lady that we have framed for before. Since she was known to us, and we were a little busy in the store, we took her order without the 50% deposit that we normally require. (Big mistake) Now we have just sent het a registerd letter informing her of the "new" total, including the storage charge. We DID get her signiture on the form. If she does not come in or contact us soon, her art will be sold.

As for people waiting for a while to pick up their work... we did two frame jobs for a different lady, about four year ago... at our old location. She came in a few weeks ago, wanting to know if I still had the pictures. NOPE!! I told her that we didn't have anything leftover from the old location. She seemed to be ok. (She had been told four years ago that her pictures were going in to the trash.) Go figgure!?!?
 
At the store where I apprenticed, we didn't take deposits. We kept the work that wasn't claimed (very little, amzingly). Once we had a woman come in for her piece. She had left it with us, moved away 2 years later, came back 2 years after that, and there it was, still waiting for her. I would say the oldest pieces we have are probably from about 1985. The previous owner didn't get a deposit, and there they sit. But we have a nice basement room called the Way Back Room, where we store old art and Christmas decorations. Someday they will be the problem of the new owners when we retire.... :D
 
When they don't pick up the finished work for a week or two after notification I usually call and say I will be in their neighborhood and would they like free delivery. This always works. I know it is an additional cost but not much because I call when I will be in that area anyway.
 
My first instinct when I read that was 'Wow! what a nice idea!'
But I'm wondering now, wouldn't that set a precedent, and set a trend where certain customers would assume that from now on if they can't be bothered to pick up their order, you'll deliver it for them? :(
I guess that would be ok if you really had the time, and not many customers, but as word got out and you became busier.... ?
 
Unframed- That would my concern as well. And once you do it for one customer, you have to it for them all. And what about balances on those orders? What if they want to pay with the same credit card they used for the deposit? What if you take a check, and it bounces, and the customer was moving? So on, and so on. Sounds like opening the proverbial can of worms.

It's the same for anything: Once you set the precedent, you are stuck with the consequences.
 
I've been doing quite a few deliveries during our road construction. Yes it does take some time, but for me, it's been time well-spent. I rarely leave the customer's home empty-handed. There's usually a "Say, as long as you're here, what do you think you could do with this?" Also, I get to see the pieces I've framed for these folks over the years hanging in their homes. (I almost always get a tour.) I think seeing their home helps me with future designs for them. (I can make a note of the sofa color. :D )

I haven't felt that people are taking advantage. Most, when I offer delivery, will say, "Oh no, you're busy. I'll come down this afternoon." If you have customers who are inclined to take advantage of you, maybe you need to find a better class of customer.

I almost certainly will continue offering deliveries when my street reopens in a couple of weeks.
 
I will go to allmost any trouble it takes to collect my money. Once people cross a line they become deadbeats, and civility ends. I recall the few times I have been dumped on and that makes me enjoy the process more. Be pleasant and never let go.
 
The shop I work at requires full payment up front. So far we haven't had anything left more than a couple of months extra, and it's usually due to the size of the finished picture and the customer having difficulty finding a way to get it home. We have one picture that's been sitting in our shop since about January I think, but our company policy is not to destroy or throw anything away, so it just keeps on sitting there.

Usually the full payment up-front isn't an issue; I did have one customer the other day give me **** over the full-payment policy... the rant is /waaaaay/ to long to post here, but if anyone wants to read about it, go to my Livejournal (http://jinwicked.livejournal.com/) and read the three entries titles "For the Love of All things Unholy" parts 1, 2, and 3. (I posted them in backwards order so it reads like one long entry.) This was easily the most horrifying experience I have had with a customer, ever.
 
Jin, welcome to the Grumble. What a harrowing story you tell (in your journal)! Great website, terrific artwork and good luck with Art Bell. I'm sure Keith is preparing your cartoon right now!!
 
I think we should merge this topic with Audrey's Warped thread about Things That Annoy Me and call it Dealing With Juvenile Deliquents.

What d'ya think?
 
Jin,

That is truly an amazing story and I am curious about two things.

What would a blind man want with custom picture framing? I've had only one blind customer in 26 years and he never really placed an order. He mostly wanted to argue with me about the merits of my profession - "So you're just a glorified carpenter, right?" "Oh no, sir. I'm quite certain a union carpenter makes a LOT more money than I do." - and the quality of my workmanship in particular. I finally had to point out - and I didn't feel at all good about it - that he wasn't probably the best judge of my workmanship.

I'm also curious about the whole Live Journal thing. Are you at all concerned that "I don't want to ever see her again after what she did to us tonight" might be a regular reader? Who ARE your readers, or is this a kind of personal therapy thing?

I'm not making fun of you. Just - as I said - curious.
 
First, thanks for the compliments!


Second, the man was legal blind, not completely nothing blind. His wife's vision was perfect, I'm sure; her glasses were big and dorky looking enough. He'd stick his nose real close to the mat and then say "I like that colour." His eyes were going different directions and I got the impression he could see in a very limited sense. He was framing a photograph of a shuttle launch with signatures around the matting, so I guess he was an employee of NASA at one point. (I work very near NASA.) He kept saying he wanted it done up very nicely. The mat had been signed very, very close to the edge so I'm having to top mount the whole deal on another matboard, then leave some space around it between that and the frame, and use spacers to lift up the glass around the outside edge to keep from covering any of the writing. The whole deal was around $200 with sales tax.

Third, the girl that didn't show up and was cause that I got stuck with the psychopath on the sales floor alone is Terri, the same girl that took the photographs on my site. She's seen my site and her husband/live-in boyfriend does read my LiveJournal. My boss reads my LiveJournal and thus already knew what had happened before he called and woke me up the next morning (hence he wasn't really surprised/angry). I hope she reads it. We just got a new boss and she was one of the ones complaining he was seldom in the store when he was scheduled to be, and then to "get back" at one of the other managers she pulled the same petty high school behaviour. She is a nice girl (she's actually in her late 30s), but she has some psychological issues (obviously) and acts in a very childish manner sometimes. All of my coworkers know about my website, everyone is fine with the fact and I do occassionally write rants about them, though I don't name names. I personally hope she reads, it and thinks about the consequences to the people she considers her friends next time she wants to pull a stunt like that. (Which isn't going to be at my store!)

She was pretty much fired as soon as she didn't show up. The experience I and the other manager had in her abscence basically sealed the deal. I have had some disagreements with my new boss, but the guy also thinks I'm cool (apparently), reads my LiveJournal daily and is always asking me questions about my site and stuff. I'm one of only two framers in the store, and the other guy isn't as reliable or able to work overtime, and I have to watch him to make sure he doesn't take shortcuts or do things incorrectly. I don't get paid too well, but I have job security. And I get a decent discount on framing my own stuff, though I need to find some kind of inexpensive mat cutter I can use at home.
 
Holy space shuttle, Jin, what a pummelling!
One of the (few) bennies of having your own shop is this: I'da bounced that couple right on outta there! If they hesitated one millisecond, I would have dialed 911. I have to keep in mind that the rest of my customers deserve better than hearing verbal abuse like that careening around.
Double Yikes!
Edie the fg :eek:
 
A few years back I decided to put a lil sign on my counter.... "50% deposit required on all orders".
This did wonders in reducing the number of "delinquent customers". Many even offer to pay the whole amount up front. Do I refuse the order if the customer is a regular, doesn't have the deposit and is a "slow picker upper"? ....Hail NO!!!!! Even if this customer is slow to pick up his/her work..I still welcome their business cause I know they will come in eventually. On the other hand...if the customer is a newbie and my gut feeling is I may get burned on this framing job... eg.(lil Joey's first finger painting from nursery school).....I politely offer to take the order and hold it until a deposit can be made. In todays world of "paying with plastic" more often than not...I see no reason why customers would have a problem with leaving a deposit.
 
Afer years of taking no deposit at all we now take 25%. Most of our clients are over 65 and pay with a check. We don't even check ID. These people can buy a new car and write the check in full! I get ID on a check if they buy art work from the gallery and I've never seen them before. During our busy months if someone is late we don't have time to notice but during the summer when we do half the business it burns my butt. I have free pick up and delivery printed on my van. I get alot of the big jobs that way. The bigger the job the bigger the profit!

Now what bugs me more than free storage is rushing a job for that "gotta have it" and they pick it up after my usual schedule. :mad:
I have threatened to post a sign that says "25% service charge on all rush jobs that aren't picked up by the day you said you had to have it."
 
I require at least 50% down on all orders. I rarely have a problem when I do that. In fact, I can't remember anything in the last 5 years that has stayed in the shop very long except those orders that didn't have a deposit. It is usually on "friends" and business associates that I haven't had deposits and there they sit. One has been there for 3 years now and he is my insurance agent and was a fellow BNI networking buddy. Another one is my neighbor next to my store.

And here is a good one. This lady came in one day telling me what great framers we were and how she would never take her work anywhere else and we were the best, yada yada yada. Red flags went up on that compliment. I figured she had probably been everywhere else in town and they won't do any work for her anymore. She never had her purse with her so couldn't put anything down. The first time we did a frame job, it took her 4 months. I did a couple other little things for her. Then she brought in a piece to just mat and mount. It sat in our shop for over a year. She came in when I wasn't there and wanted her art work but not the mat and mount, nor did she pay for anything. Well, last spring she was elected mayor of a small town north of us (big joke to begin with) and now she is being up for a recall election and it hasn't yet been a year. Just Desserts!!! :D

Anyway, I like to experiment with how I ask for the deposit. I will say, "Would you like to put 50% down or pay for that in full today?" 9 times out of 10, I will get full payment. If I reverse it and say, "Would you like to pay for that in full or put 50% down for deposit today?" I will only get a deposit. Try it, it is really funny how it works.
 
Asking for the deposit is no longer a problem for most of the orders I take.

I just 'matter of fact' say,"We usually get a 50% deposit but if you would like to just go ahead and pay for it all today, that will make the pick up much quicker, especially if I have other customers here ahead of you." In other words, it is their choice to pay 1/2 or all, no other option is given. If I get a whiner, I just say we can hold the order till they drop a deposit by.

I either have 50% or 100% payment at the time of sale. Although there are a few old customers that get by without that since "your Dad never did that with me" but that number is down due to attrition.
 
At my part-time, we collect the total up front. We write up the total, then ask, "How would you like to pay for that?". Things don't sit around for long.
In my shop, I don't usually ask for deposits. I've only had 2 that were slow to pick up. Both of those, I've called once a week for 3 months. At the end of that time, I've send them a certified letter telling them that is our standard practice to sell any artwork that is left over 90 days. I then give them 1 week more to pay up and collect their picture. Both responded within 2 days of my mailing the letter. I have found that being a squeeky wheel really helps! :rolleyes:
 
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