Cutting Reverse Bevel

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billrobertstudios

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Jan 12, 2004
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Cumming, GA
So I learned a while back that cutting reverse bevels involves lightly marking on the front of the mat in pencil, cutting, then erasing.

I figured out another way is to set the fence and mark the back of the mat as if cutting a regular bevel. Then, remove the fence from the mat cutter and carefully position the mat (still face down) with the inside of the mat towards where the fence usually is to cut the reverse bevel from the back of the mat. I line up the pencil line and check that the blade bisects it (yea, I cut the pencil line in half!) at both ends. Then, cut away.

I know if you use a CMC, then this is useless for you to talk about, but if you cut by hand, how do you do reverse bevels in YOUR shop?

Thanks,

Bill
 
I cut from the back. I mark the cut using the border width scale on my Fletcher 2000, then remove it, and slide the matte thru so that I am actually cutting the other border of the matte than I would usually...Carefully eyeballing where the blade will plunge and that the line is parallel to the guide. Does this make sense? I can picture it in my mind.

James
 
James:

I think we are doing it the same way. I was just curious how many folks do it this way or cut from the front.... or advantages / disadvantages of either.

Warmest aloha,

Bill
 
Sounds like a potential poll! Butter side up or butter side down?!

I cut from the back so I don't have to erase pencil marks, besides that's the way I was taught to do it.
 
The heck with pencil lines!

I use the squaring arm on the right side of the cutter as a guide. All you need is to take in consideration the width of the slide bar (mine is exactly 2-1/2”).

If I wanted a three inch border reversed, for example, I would take 3 minus 2.5 and set my squaring arm stop for 1/2” (actually 13/32” – 1/2” minus 3/32” because of the angle of the blade and thickness of the board.)

Likewise the stops; just add 3/32” to the normal settings, and, bingo, a clean cut from the back with no pencil lines and no over cuts.
 
i set the arm, face up-use short piece of removable tape in the area of intersecting lines, LIGHTLY mark that relative close to the arm w/#2 DULL pencil , do all 4 corners, the just cut 'em---almost no over/under cuts possible
 
I have always cut from the back since 1980. Cutting from the front leaves the possibility that the bar could burnish the face of the mat.
 
From the front. And without pencil lines. Perfect everytime...

I use a scrap and draw pencil lines on it for the measure... I then position the blade where I want it to go in and put a production stop at that location, as well as the other end where the blade will stop. Then I use the actual mat, face up and wa-la - reverse bevel. Perfect everytime!!

Roz
 
I'm gonna try some of these methods to see if it beats mine, Which is........................

Cut a normal mat from an offcut or use that one you stuffed up yesterday. Measure the overcuts at the back.

Mine are around three sixteenths of an inch at the start of cut and one eigth at the end of cut.

Add the overcut distance to the start and end of cut stops. Cut face up, fallout won't fall out - finish off by hand with a blade angled to cut the back only.
 
I mark my mat on the back and put it under the bar on the opposite side from where I would normally cut. I plunge the blade in a hair above the line and finish the cut a hair below the stopping point. I think we need a new mat doctor...I volunteer.
 
For reversed bevels, I always cut from the back..theres always the risk of lining burnish lines on the mat surface.
 
Hey all. So many new ways to do things!

I am really confused by the madness to some of the methods!

Seems some cut from the front and some from the back. I like the idea of not cutting from the front to prevent marring the mat surface with the mat cutter bar. No one has convinced me that there is any advantage to cutting from the front.

So, with Bill Henry's method, does setting up production stops for a single cut really make the job faster than using pencil lines?

Roz' method seems good, but... cutting from the front could damage a mat.

John Turner's method seems lengthy, having to cut a seperate mat first. However... a "reverse mat cutter?" Does that really exist? I Googled with zero results. Hmmm. If I invent one are there any potential buyers out there?

Sounds like Raymond, Seth, Jeff, James and me do it the same. Bill Henry is close, but he uses stops on a squaring arm instead of pencil lines.

Thanks for all the input! I have some new ways to try. I have not seen a squaring arm around our shop and I will have to look for production stops! I guess the previous framers didn't use them.

Warmest aloha,
Bill
 
I use a Stanley marking guage, mark the back and cut, if you're doing a reverse double mat... tape the edges of the fillet or inner mat down, mark it and cut...

Seperate three sides, remove top mat drop-out, replace and tape lower mat with ATG on face mat.

and mount picture.

And that takes me about 5 minutes total and with a <u>weighted bottom</u>.

You guys and your productions stops!
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Hey Baer !!!

Umm. So, will you please tell me more about a Stanley marking gage?

You said, "if you're doing a reverse double mat... tape the edges of the fillet or inner mat down, mark it and cut... "

Okay... Hmmm. You cut inner mats after installing fillets? I have been cutting the top mat, taping and cutting the bottom mat, and then taking that apart to install a fillet (between the mats).

Sorry, your description was uncharacteristically vague... at least to me.

Merriest Christmas,

Bill
 
Bill, I think your confussion came when you hit the word fillet...

It's the "old-timers" term for a inner mat, or the one that only shows about 1/8"-1/4" (same as a wood fillet).

I wasn't mixing species of wood here. Two mats, top and fillet/second/inner.

Find and buy a couple of Stanley's or Defiance's.. swap the steel bit for pencil lead....
no_1291_gauge.jpg


of course, now that I have told this many framers about the simplest and cheapest tool, the antique marking gauge market is going to dry-up and become as expensive as a production stop for a Fletcher...
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Mark and reverse-cut the top mat from the back. Put the drop out back in and tape with removeable tape.

Put inner mat on top of outer mat. [both are face down]. Tape outside edges.

This is when it gets tricky. If you want a 1/4" showing of the inner mat the top mat was MARKED an 1/8" shy of normal of a 1/8" reveal, and now the lower is marked the normal [but will have the 1/8" overhang resulting in a quasi 1/4" reveal of the inner mat.

When I measure the image and allow for a mat coverage of say 1/4" each way, and design for a 3"T&S with a 3.5" weighted bottom.... I know that if I end up cutting a reverse bevel, I don't want to have the opening that tight of a measurement...

If you don't remember, and cut that measure as the sight, then from an oblique angle, you may see the white past the edge of the image....

Of coarse, then you can always use that wood fillet that you wanted to use before...
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I hope this clears that up for you Bill.

Oh, and the Stanleys, a fair price for a clean one is about $8-20 but I've seen then go on E-Rape for as high as $40. :D
 
Bill, have you purchased the ticket to Vegas? Waste some scrap mat board and try several ideas but first convince your employer to get a cmc. As my "Daddy" used to say, "you can go back to the old days if you want, but I like today better".
 
Hey!

I like the marking gauge.... I bid on a couple on Ebay.

So.. lets say we have a print that measures 11 1/4 by 14 1/4". We then would want 11 by 14" to show.


With a 3" total mat, we would cut the outside dimensions for the mat at 17 by 20".

For a normal bevel, we would mark and cut the top mat at 2 3/4" and the bottom (inner fillet mat... a confusing thing!) at 3".

So for a reverse bevel, we sould mark and cut the top mat at 2 7/8" and the inner mat at 3 1/8" to prevent white from around the edge of the print from showing... is that righ?

Thanks,

Bill
 
Give this kid a cookie.... even with out pictures, you got it square on the button.

You know of course, once you get those marking gauges, you will hate me forever for corrupting you.


BTW there is one of those with a knife blade in it.... can you say chopping mats...?
 
You can also use this marking gauge to accurately measure the liners for the sides of shadowboxes.

If you have one hold on to it. Stanley stopped making them I think. We have three and I almost keep them locked up
 
Bill Henry,

I said I'd try some of these to see if they beat mine. Can't relate to some of them until you try -anyway, like yours best BUT

1. I have a keencut ultimat gold (bet you have a fletcher terry?) Can't set the squaring arm stop to much less than three quarters of an inch. But could still cut a 3" reverse bevel - just.

2. No good for margins narrower than the width of cutting bar.
 
Even in the world of cmc's you should have a marking gauge or a scribe as I have always called it. When I trained new employees in my old manager days, I would always train them to cut mats using a scribe. Takes care of a few framing lessons at one time. I have several, and my favorite is an antique scribe.
What can I say, I like old tools, old men, and old dogs. They're all broken in ...just the way I like them ;)
Steph
 
I was taught by a guy who could cut a perfect bevelled oval mount by hand, after first plotting and drawing the oval with a piece of string and two nails.

I started out doing everything with hand tools. I have marking gauges, mitre boxes, vices etc etc,

But speed is of the essence now, (They don't call me Roboframer for nothing!) if the BEST way has to be slower then fine, but from what I have read above, it's not. My method, and Bill Henry's are quick and give perfect results. Also very easy to describe - some of the above are like trying to explain how to fasten a necktie to somebody.
 
first you make 2 bunny ears the one bunny ear goes around the other and into the bunny hole....oops I'm sorry thats tying shoes for toddlers. :D
 
Someone here mentioned black wax in some forum in some post. (can't find it!). Is there such a thing? IS it for touching up black frames? Where do I get it? Is there a brand name?

Thanks,
Jacqueline
 
Jaci, Tombo markers, or Chartpak.. then Acme wax... then patina or over wax with Liberon, Sterling, Golden Buffalo, Minwax, Habinar, Black Beauty, or just plain old shoe wax... that hardens.

Let sit for a few days and buff to desired finish.
 
I've got several of the marking scribes...one that has a 24" arm for REALLY wide mats. They work well unless your cutting a mat under 1 1/2" or so.

So, Baer, is my scribe bigger than yours?

Dave Makielski
 
I haven't been around - computer problems. But thanks for the info on the black wax. I found it in United's catalog when browsing for other things. So I ordered the Liberon and the Black patina. Just came today. and...Black shoe wax - of course!

BTW we use white liquid shoe polish to color the edges of white frames before joining. Just at the very edge so the wax doesn't keep the glue from sticking. Sharpie now also makes a white paint marker which works pretty good.

I am a mixed media artist and all that mixed media stuff sure comes in handy when doing touch up - so many of the newer mouldings are resistant to the traditional putty.

Jacqueline
 
Oh Jeez Dave; you are disgusting!

Now where am I going to find a 30" scribe???
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BTW: the Nautical is now out in the 2".
 
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