cutting mats for those who don't own a CMC

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Jean McLean

Jean McLean

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 25, 2001
Posts
128
Loc
Millinocket, ME, USA
I had a call today from a shop I have been cutting mats for. They only order once in a while and usually something weird they can't do. Anyway they asked me for a price list so they could compare my prices to (guess who?) They said a salesman contacted them about cutting mats for them. I wonder if "the big guy" thought about all the small frame shops they may put out of business by doing this? I depend on those extra sales to stay afloat. If "the big guy" takes all the small mat jobs then how many small shops will close up thus buy nothing from them at all? No more moulding, glass, foam core, etc. They may end up selling more mats than full sheets to we small framers? Hmmm, where is the profit for them in the long run? I suppose they have thought this all out and weighed the pros and cons but they may be cutting off their nose to spite their face. We small framers cannot afford to hit the road announcing we will cut mats for shops but we sure can Grumble and support each other! Hear ye, hear ye.....207-723-4834. I charge .33 UI for a single mat, .66 for a double and $2 per opening over and above the first one which is free and free V-grooves. It does not matter if it is oval, octagon, or what as there is no difference in charges. I have a flat rate no matter what the shape. I do not use papermats! I am not sitting back and buckling under to the big guys without giving it all I have first. You pay for shipping. The big guys will charge you also. Sorry for using the wording.."big guys." I won't use names because...as mother would say...."don't cut off your nose to spite your face" !!

Jean in Maine
 
I usually get delivery from Larson but when I'm in a pinch I pick up from them. The last time I was in they were setting up a room for mat cutting. I have a cmc but we don't do cuts for other shops so I never thought of what this could to to us "little" guys. We've also been undercutted by another moulding supplier that started doing framing themselves for a large chain that we were doing framing for. I know that some of the suppliers actually have frame shops, but I'm sure it will be no time before they all do to get a little more of the pie. JayRay
 
I can recall when we first opened business, it was 90% craft supplies, and our main supplier of crafts helped us set up, after that they told us to order a new item after x amount of request and then ask them. Obviously they have had requests unless they plan on becoming the retailer. I would imagine they have separate price structures for the "big" and the "little" guys also just as with other products. Just make sure your customer is comparing apples to apples. They are not the only game around, check the internet.
 
Originally posted by JayRay:
...I know that some of the suppliers actually have frame shops, but I'm sure it will be no time before they all do to get a little more of the pie. JayRay
Click to expand...
An old problem, but a serious one, nevertheless. Now that the age of the CMC is upon us, I suspect this situation will get much worse before it ever gets better...

Perhaps they should stop beating around the proverbial bush and set up a network of L/J retail framing stores?...

On the other hand, might I ask my ever-so-much-wiser fellow grumblinos if there is any possible solution to this? Is there any way we, at the grass roots level, can organize to address problems such as this?

Ahhh... never mind. To expect action is, perhaps, naive. After all, this site is called "the Grumble"...

grum :mad: ble...grum :confused: ble...grum :( ble

Hang in there, Jean!
 
I have to agree with Sharon on loyalty to suppliers and vice versa. If you have bought from a supplier for many years and given them your business without much fuss and they decide to offer services that are the mainstay of your business, I would let my feelings be known in the strongest terms to my rep. If that produces no reply at least, then I would systematically pull their samples down over a period of time and be sure to inform the rep of your actions and the reasons why each time he/she enters your shop and notices the diminishing appearance of their samples on your wall.

We don't necessarily have to sit back and bitch about losing part of our business to one another. We can take a pro-active approach and simply find new moulding suppliers to take the place of the ones who want to dabble in retail sales or offering direct services that were once part of the frame shops' offering.

I have picked up no less than 5 new moulding suppliers since moving my shop. Reason, they all have a good quality product to offer and they deliver to my door. Since UPS has raised their rates again and many times you wind up paying for oversized shipping, "free" delivery is becoming an important part of my buying strategy. I know that delivery is never "free" but it sure isn't as expensive in the long run as paying $12 to $18 per box for shipped moulding.

I am ordering small orders now but, as my business grows the orders get larger and those who treat me with respect and as part of their support group that keeps THEIR business afloat will get a larger chunk of MY pie!

Framerguy
 
I carry 5 different major moulding companys and I have anywhere between 500 and 750 moulding samples. I can't exactly start taking down mouldings of company's that are taking business from me.

Larson Juhl is now starting to cut mats.

Art Express owns frame shops and offers amt cuts.

TC Moulding used to do all of Marshall Fields framing until recently. They are also the ones that underut us to do framing for a major chain.

This is just what I'm aware of. I'm sure many of you know more of these things than I do. So three of the five suppliers that I deal with are doing things to be a competitor of mine and yours. These are major players in the framing game so it's not like I can just take down their moulding because I'm angry. Unfortunately they have most of us by the short hairs. JayRay
 
I didn't hear complaints from anyone when Sara Graphics or Fletcher Terry set up a mat cutting service. Larson does it, then the complaints start. The CMC has made mat cutting faster & easier. Offering the service to those w/o a CMC makes sense for a large company that wants to service it's accounts. There is a need, and not everyone has access to a CMC. Sorry, but I don't see anything wrong with companies offering the service. If Larson opened up framing establishments, they would be dumped by every framer in the country who carries their line. Maybe collectively we give them more business than they would realize if they opened their own establishments, without the hassles of finding help, setting up shop, and fighting the BB's. Maybe that is why they haven't done it yet.
 
I could be mistaken - it happens - but it sounds like L-J is wholesaling mats to their frameshop customers. That's a bit different than setting up a retail operation, I think.

Jean, isn't it just possible that your wholesale mat-cutting services might be competitively priced?

I suppose L-J could have several non-price advantages, including a busy sales-force, delivery routes and a very large selection of matboard, but is it crazy to think you could still sell mats to framers?

Just the home-based framers that L-J won't deal with should be able to keep you busy. Most don't have CMCs, I would guess.
 
Yeah, sign me up! I think it would be a great addition to what they already offer. I have a local framer who does the occasional CMC cut for me but at $2.50 an opening I hardly think he will go bankrupt if I swing to LJ.

My goal was to have a CMC this year, the way things have gone I don't know that that will happen just yet, so, knowing I can still get my cuts until that time I think it would be great to have another source.

Where's the threat? I don't think they are going retail yet.....
 
Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
I could be mistaken - it happens - but it sounds like L-J is wholesaling mats to their frameshop customers. That's a bit different than setting up a retail operation
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You're right, of course, Ron...

However, even when we had our store front/gallery a few years back, we found that, too often, we were competing for the exact same (retail) customers as several of our largest suppliers...

Of course our sales reps assured us that this was impossible, as did the managers of each company...

What we discovered, and was verified by numerous customers and would-be (or "might-have-been) customers, was that anyone with any kind of business card could go into their showrooms and purchase (C.O.D. of course) custom framing at their respective "wholesale" prices.

Principles and integrity have always been of utmost importance to us. As such, I found this practice very aggravating even tho', in reality, it had little real effect on our business. Perhaps "business", as they say, really "is business. And where business goes, principles do not follow?

Having said that, I will offer my apologies if I've opened a proverbial can of worms where none existed. Perhaps (at least for most of us), there is no reason for concern?
 
Oh, I think there's plenty of cause for concern.

I just don't think L-J cutting mats is part of it.
 
Here we go again. The sky is falling because one of the big guys is going to compete with us.

I've said many times here that LJ is a great company for me. A good product that my snooty customers appreciate. Delivery twice a week. Rarely out of stock on what order. Never give me a hard time if I'm not satisfied with something I ordered. They forgot to deliver a case of glass once two years ago on my final delivery before Xmas. The distribution center manager brought it to me on his way home. That is service, and my rep has been extremely helpful as I have been trying to grow my business.

So, when it first came up here that LJ was putting CMC's in their distribution centers I was curious and, well, wondered what it might mean for me and what it might mean for them.

I bought a Fletcher CMC a few years ago, so my first reaction was maybe if I waited I could have just bought my mats cut from LJ. But I don't know if that is really a solution for most framers.

Why?

Maybe, if everthing we frame is a standard size, with a standard window, the same reveal, this would be a great alternative to cutting our own mats.

As a custom framer, I cut look at each job, do my measurements and cut the mat. Sometimes, after I put the mat on the art I decide to cut it again cause I just don't like the look, and I want to make a small adjustment. My approach might be due to inexperience, but many of my customers expect me to exercise some judgement. Even with delivery twice a week, relying on someone else to do the mats won't work for me except on production jobs that all look the same.

I think Fletcher tried giving framers the design software as part of its mat cutting service, but Fletcher got out of the business. LJ is a pretty smart company, so I suspect unique designs may not be the market they are looking for.

My LJ rep couldn't give me much info on what the plan is, but I'm not going to get too upset yet.
This may be a good service for some framers who aren't ready to buy a CMC, but want a shot a production work or are looking for ways to save time in their normal production. It also may be a way for LJ to begin selling to other markets. Like I said, LJ has been good for me so I want them to be profitable so they can continue giving me good service.

Maybe I will sing another tune when we see the gameplan play out. I think it will be challenging for them to make money if the plan is to focus on orders for a couple of mats at rock bottom prices. Just keeping the things clean and unblemished in shipment without spending a lot on packaging will be challenging.

Maybe I'm just feeling good cause today I did some competitor shopping and even went to, gasp, Michaels. While I was there someone wanted a mat cut. They were told it would be one to two weeks.

The nice Michaels lady I let try to sell me a frame started out with a triple mat option for my sepia photograph. Terrible red suede top mat to bring out the "red" in the frame. Blue mat to bring out the blue water in the photo (no blue in this sepia picture), green on the bottom. I showed her a nice double mat presentation. Normal Michaels price was more than what I would charge. Yep, she told me I could get up to a 50% discount if I wait for the sale that surely would be advertised soon. But, at 50 percent off their price, I'm still not that much more expensive.

So, I'd say rather than worry about LJ's new service, I want to figure out how to get more of Michael's customers into my shop.
 
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