Customers vs. the Day Job

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jim_p

jim_p

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Posts
2,151
Loc
Natick, MA
In this economy my shop is just barely keeping its head above water, and that's with me not taking a dime from the business. In order to avoid becoming a foreclosure statistic, I've had to take a part-time day job... three days a week doing software in a cubicle farm. Thursdays and Saturdays I'm at the shop all day, my assistant covers the other days.

Here's a story of the two worlds colliding:

We're really really close to a release date for a piece of software I'm involved with, and a Really Bad Problem came up. They scheduled a conference call for 2:30PM on Thursday to hash this out, and since I'm in the thick of the problem (okay, I made a boo-boo that got everyone scrambling) I durn well better be on the call. Wouldn't you know, at 2:29PM I get a call: "Where is your shop located"? Turns out that this customer bought a piece from my assistant and was in town to pick it up (private sale, not through the shop). "Well, I'm closing for half an hour at 2:30 for a conference call" "But I drove in all the way from [two-towns-over]!" "(*sigh*) Okay, come on by and we'll see what we can do".

So she comes by and I must have looked like a total a-hole to her, phone pressed to my ear as I search for the piece. I search and search and can't find the piece she describes. Finally in desperation I mute the concall while still listening to it, call my assistant on the cell, and ask her what's up. Turns out there were missed connections and undelivered phone messages, and my assistant had the piece with her. Handed the cell to the customer, they made arrangements, everything's settled.

So here's a couple of questions:

(1) Should I have been so accommodating to the customer, or should I have held firm: "I really apologize, but we're CLOSED!"

(2) Do I tell my customers about my day-job? Right now I've been trying to keep it somewhat discreet (My assistant has been instructed to inform customers who call that I'm "offsite" for the day). What I REALLY want to say is "I'm working a day job because you're not buying enough frames!!" :)

Thoughts?
 
I would have just apoligized For being closed & said you were on a conference call about another job (true) no need to elaborate.
It was good you did accomadated her by opening....sorry for the miscommunications. A follow up call the next day to ask if she was happy with the job she picked up.

PS hope it picks back up for you $$$
 
Agree with Gumby. Customers don't need to know everything, especially your personal life. Had you told her, she may have told a friend, who told a friend, and by the time the gossip is done, the word would be your business is closed!

Accomodating her was the right thing to do. This is, after all, your principle business.

Hang in there. It'll get better.
 
Here's a question -- why are you paying for an assistant when you aren't paying yourself? Let the assistant go, and pay yourself that money.
 
PaulSF said:
Here's a question -- why are you paying for an assistant when you aren't paying yourself? Let the assistant go, and pay yourself that money.
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I'm earning a lot more per hour doing software than I'm paying her to do framing, and the difference is what keeps a roof over our heads. Believe me, this was a last-ditch move. The shop is only a couple years old and not yet profitable, and the savings ran out before we hit break-even. It was either this or just close the shop and go back to being a wage slave fulltime...

Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do...
 
As you may or may not know, I pretty much tell it like it is and sometimes it sounds blunt but i mean no harm...

That being said, pick a job and stick to it. If you can not dedicate yourself to your own business 110+% then you should not run a business. I realize that times are tough but as Paul says, why pay someone else. If you need to let them go and get a PT job at night when you are closed then do that, don't abandon your own business unless you plan on it to fail.

I would imagine that you will never see that customer again and they will tell others about their experience. These are the days where the companies that provide outstanding service will be the ones who are successful in the future. Do you think that your customer was provided outstanding service?
 
I think you did the right thing as far as handling your customer and juggling your job. Sometime we all have to do things we would rather not do in order to keep our business going.

You probably should have just told your customer that you were also a software engineer and you had a problem going with your other business, along with an apology for being on the phone.

John
 
DTWDSM said:
That being said, pick a job and stick to it. If you can not dedicate yourself to your own business 110+% then you should not run a business. I realize that times are tough but as Paul says, why pay someone else. If you need to let them go and get a PT job at night when you are closed then do that, don't abandon your own business unless you plan on it to fail.
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Advice noted and ignored :) Fortunately, it's a free country and I'm perfectly entitled to run a business as well or as badly as I'd like. In fact, this particular assistant has been very good for my business. She's a photographer and a member of several camera clubs. She's drawn quite a bit of business our way

I would imagine that you will never see that customer again and they will tell others about their experience. These are the days where the companies that provide outstanding service will be the ones who are successful in the future. Do you think that your customer was provided outstanding service?
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Of course she was provided terrible service, and I feel rather bad about it, but sometimes you just get backed into a corner. 99.9% of the time I provide exceptional service and my customers will vouch for that. Spare me the lecture on how just one dissatisfied customer will mean a thousand bad references... I know I know.

It's like when I inadvertently cut someone off on the highway, I say "Well, I guess today it's my turn to be the a-hole... it's such a rare occasion I may as well enjoy it!"
 
jim_p said:
"Where is your shop located"? Turns out that this customer bought a piece from my assistant and was in town to pick it up (private sale, not through the shop). "Well, I'm closing for half an hour at 2:30 for a conference call" "But I drove in all the way from [two-towns-over]!" "(*sigh*) Okay, come on by and we'll see what we can do".
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I think that you only did one thing wrong. You said this wasn't a customer of yours, they were picking up a private sale not through the shop. Well, I hate to tell a potential customer this, but if someone bought something from next door and came to pick it up while I was closed, that has nothing to do with me. It should have been your assistants responsibility and you should have given them a call and told them to arrange something with the customer (either they come in during your conference call and do the transaction or figure out another time).

Now, if it was your customer (a customer of the shop) I would have done the same thing, and let them know you are on an important call. I have four different part time jobs (speradic is more the term) and I tell my customers what I do. They seem to be interested in my other jobs (photographer, production manager/lighting designer for a musician, theatrical stage technician, and a framer). When I'm gone, I have someone else cover for me and no one seems to care.
 
I too stumble over the 'private sale' and not the shop sale. I think in this case, I would have called the assistant first, so she (he?) could handle her customer in the shop. You knew this in advance (at least the customer called first, even if it was just a few minutes before you were closing. It would have been my first 'to do'; call the assistant.

Since this is after the fact, I would call this customer (even if it wasn't your customer) and explain a bit about what happened, without giving too much information and that you did feel quite bad about it.

Good luck hanging in there!
 
Ylva said:
I too stumble over the 'private sale' and not the shop sale. I think in this case, I would have called the assistant first, so she (he?) could handle her customer in the shop.
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I didn't realize this was a private sale until I called my assistant; we'd framed several of this particular photo recently, so at first I assumed it was one of those. A word to my assistant is definitely in order.
 
amateurs in this business

Ya know it is people like Jim P that is destroying this industry. In one word unproffesionalism.

These are people that are NOT business people, nor many times are they know anything about framing or design. Most of the time they have no idea what they are doing, let along any proper training or even common sence but get into the biz thinking its fun. And all they have to do is post a question on the Grumble and almost everyone jumps in to help them.

Like " do you use glue in joining frames?"

There is an old joke saying yesterday I didn;t know how to spell "Frammer", but today I R one.

How can you run a business and say sorry we are closed for thirty minutes on a tuesday afternoon for a confernece call??? Do you see M's closing for 30 mintues in the middle of the day??? Or walmart???


Think if you were to go out shopping and you stoped by a business in the middle of the day and it was closed cause they had something more important to do then be open to serve you?? During normal biz hours. Would you go back??

How can you get a new small bizness off the ground when you are working full time on another job? Either you are dedicated to one or the other, Can;t do both as Tim said.

And all of these unskilled, unproffesional people are taking each a bite out of someone who is dedicated, educated, and trained to be in business, and be the framing business.

And what is an assistant? If i walked into a frame shop I would want to talk to an expert. Not an assistant. And by the way they are not your assistant, they are your Employee
 
Seriously... tell us how you really feel!!

Wow!

Tho i understand where you are coming from, it is still a free country and as such he is free to do as he wishes with his business... including driving it off a cliff in short order and thus "draining the framing gene pool" so to speak.
 
framah said:
Seriously... tell us how you really feel!!

Wow!

Tho i understand where you are coming from, it is still a free country and as such he is free to do as he wishes with his business... including driving it off a cliff in short order and thus "draining the framing gene pool" so to speak.
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Life is in the trying, adjusting, and trying again. Guess some have executed their personal and professional efforts perfectly. I suspect most of us have not. So we keep trying and adjusting.
 
wcox said:
Ya know it is people like Jim P that is destroying this industry. In one word unproffesionalism.
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I am deeply, deeply insulted by this. How DARE you question my professionalism from a single anecdote? HOW DARE YOU??!!

Oh, and learn to spell the word "professional" if you're going to be lecturing us on the subject.

I'm not going to dignify this outrage with any further response.
 
wcox said:
Ya know it is people like Jim P that is destroying this industry. In one word unproffesionalism.

These are people that are NOT business people, nor many times are they know anything about framing or design. Most of the time they have no idea what they are doing, let along any proper training or even common sence but get into the biz thinking its fun. And all they have to do is post a question on the Grumble and almost everyone jumps in to help them.


How can you run a business and say sorry we are closed for thirty minutes on a tuesday afternoon for a confernece call??? Do you see M's closing for 30 mintues in the middle of the day??? Or walmart???


Think if you were to go out shopping and you stoped by a business in the middle of the day and it was closed cause they had something more important to do then be open to serve you?? During normal biz hours. Would you go back??

How can you get a new small bizness off the ground when you are working full time on another job? Either you are dedicated to one or the other, Can;t do both as Tim said.

And all of these unskilled, unproffesional people are taking each a bite out of someone who is dedicated, educated, and trained to be in business, and be the framing business.
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ummmmmm. Had some bad days lately? Where does it say he is unskilled or unprofessional? Just because of this one thing happening?

The problem is, if you have to support your family and your business is not bringing it in, what do you do?
 
Jim...

I think its admirable that you are working so hard to keep the dream of having a framing business alive, even if it means having to work at another job to do so. I know there are other Grumblers who are, or have done the same in the past.

Sure, it was an unfortunate occurrence, this mix up with the pick up...but we all know sometimes no matter how hard we try #### still happens...:(

Frankly, I wouldn't give that rather harsh post a second thought. Obviously, everybody's situation is different, but he is oblivious to that fact.
 
wcox said:
Ya know it is people like Jim P that is destroying this industry. In one word unproffesionalism.

These are people that are NOT business people, nor many times are they know anything about framing or design. Most of the time they have no idea what they are doing, let along any proper training or even common sence but get into the biz thinking its fun. And all they have to do is post a question on the Grumble and almost everyone jumps in to help them.

Like " do you use glue in joining frames?"

There is an old joke saying yesterday I didn;t know how to spell "Frammer", but today I R one.

How can you run a business and say sorry we are closed for thirty minutes on a tuesday afternoon for a confernece call??? Do you see M's closing for 30 mintues in the middle of the day??? Or walmart???


Think if you were to go out shopping and you stoped by a business in the middle of the day and it was closed cause they had something more important to do then be open to serve you?? During normal biz hours. Would you go back??

How can you get a new small bizness off the ground when you are working full time on another job? Either you are dedicated to one or the other, Can;t do both as Tim said.

And all of these unskilled, unproffesional people are taking each a bite out of someone who is dedicated, educated, and trained to be in business, and be the framing business.

And what is an assistant? If i walked into a frame shop I would want to talk to an expert. Not an assistant. And by the way they are not your assistant, they are your Employee
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You know, if Wal-Mart and M's are an example of framing professionals, I guess I'd probably choose not to be one.

And by the say, its 'unprofessional' and 'sense', 'conference', 'business', 'stopped' and 'minutes' --just to be professional.

This industry has been built (not started) by the small mom and pop shops who are at the mercy of a slow economy. To insult them because of a lack of means isn't a good thing. No one said their assistant isn't an expert or as well versed, either. Just that they are an assistant. You're jumping to way too many conclusions.

As long as they are there during posted business hours, they are being professional. In fact, he went out of his way to help a customer during off hours.

Everyone is doing what they have to do in order to make business work whether its changing store hours, supplementing their income or expanding their markets.

And wouldn't it be a horrible industry if we thought we were so omnipotent that we couldn't ask others for advice?

Although I agree that we should all be doing all we can in this economy to make it, including being open as much as we can and being as professional as we can...its really not our place to try and discredit others ... we simply are not in their shoes.
 
janetj1968 said:
You know, if Wal-Mart and M's are an example of framing professionals, I guess I'd probably choose not to be one.

And by the say, its 'unprofessional' and 'sense', 'conference', 'business', 'stopped' and 'minutes' --just to be professional.

This industry has been built (not started) by the small mom and pop shops who are at the mercy of a slow economy. To insult them because of a lack of means isn't a good thing. No one said their assistant isn't an expert or as well versed, either. Just that they are an assistant. You're jumping to way too many conclusions.

As long as they are there during posted business hours, they are being professional. In fact, he went out of his way to help a customer during off hours.

Everyone is doing what they have to do in order to make business work whether its changing store hours, supplementing their income or expanding their markets.

And wouldn't it be a horrible industry if we thought we were so omnipotent that we couldn't ask others for advice?

Although I agree that we should all be doing all we can in this economy to make it, including being open as much as we can and being as professional as we can...its really not our place to try and discredit others ... we simply are not in their shoes.
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Amen!
 
jim_p said:
Obviously I'm supposed to just close up shop and leave it to the "proffesionals" :mad:
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You and apparently a ton of other framers as well.

Don't worry Jim! Enough people on your side and understand and respect what you're going through. There was no reason for this extreme harsh and unfounded post about being not professional.

Hope business will pick up for you, and everyone, soon. In the meantime, be happy you do have the means to support your business with income from another source.
 
I'm still trying to catch my breath. Currently being preoccupied with avatars (my being avatar-less, and all) I deciphered Mr. Artsy-Fartsy's avatar, and choked on my Saturday morning latte. It being early, and I being still a little sleepy - I thought maybe I was on Craigslist instead of the Grumble! :icon9:
 
Even if this one awkward instance were a reflection of one shop's level of professionalism or competence it certainly wouldn't kill the industry. If you receive bad service at a specialty service store you don't immediately jump to the conclusion that particular industry is crooked, do you? You simply find someone else to bring your business to.

I understand the point of dedicating time and energy to the business, and not on outside unemployment, but sometimes we are forced to make a decision. Sure, we could all put out more effort but the immediate return would not be that of a second job with a paycheck that someone else needs to worry about. I would commend you on acting quickly enough to find income to supplement in these hard times. It's not unprofessional, people. It's called survival.
 
Meh, whatever, I've known several computer programmers and I'd say this thread is about standard.

And don't question the professionalism... he's got the three letters! I don't!
 
Jim,

There are always idiots on here that think things are black and white.

Bottom line is, you did what you could in a tough situation. The customer got what she wanted, maybe not the way you normally would have but you are covering all the bases you can to take care of your responsibilities.

No one should judge you, you are doing what you have to, to keep things working.

It would bother me also for a few days, then move on and try to learn from it. Better communication next time, a talk with the part timer, whatever you think will help.

I admire your drive, don't let anyone put you down for trying hard to make things work.



Bob
 
Jim, keep it up. The software work pays the bills, the framing keeps you going. After this recession ends and framing picks up you can switch to framing more and be happier. You'll have a framing business with years of experience behind it which should make it more attractive to potential customers than a newly opened shop would have.

My only concern, and i hope I read this wrong, is that your worker is conducting private business transactions in your shop when you aren't there. If that is the case, then what's to stop her from "stealing" your customers and opening her own pace and putting you out of business. When I bought the woman who worked for the previous owner stayed on for a few months. Then she did work at XMas for people out of her home. I really had no recourse as I had a no compete with the previous owner, not with the employee. Her day job was better than the money she brought in framing, and she stopped framing, but it really made meeting in the grocery a little "uncomfortable"!

Cox, if your business is bleeding money and you can augment that business by diversifying where is the bad business practice? I've seen frame shops that sell art, that sell prints, that do photography.

And I know one that sells bicycles, upscale fishing lures and gear, one that does wall and window treatments. One that sells religious items.

I personally would be lost without Mike Labbe. He does computers, and while I did computer consulting in the past he has gotten me out of more than a few binds.

Jim has found a way to keep the business going using skills he has honed over the years. Should he really throw that knowledge away?
 
Bob, I do hope that you are not referring to me with the idiot comment

Jim P, As you have seen here on this board, everyone has their opinion on things, that is why you came here to ask your question. I don't think that my post can be considered a lecture that you need to be spared of, if I were to lecture to you I would charge a fee. You may not have agreed with my answer but I think it was more well thought out than others that you have received, ignore it now if you want but, remember you asked for our opinions here and you should look at all answers with an open mind.

As for M and Walmart being professional framers, I don't think that was implied in anyone's posts here, I think that the point was that they are professional RETAILERS, that is the business that we are in isn't it...retailing?

I know times are tough, I am working more hours that I ever have in my store as well, I just don't believe that taking time away from your own business can work out in the long run. As I said, focus on your own business full time and if needed, get a PT job during the hours that you are not regularly open, if you need to adjust your store's hours a little then maybe open an hour later or close an hour earlier on certain days.

Wcox, Even though we somewhat agree in our points, I think saying that Jim P is ruining our industry is a little far fetched. I really doubt that if you were face to face with Jim P you would have said what you said in the way that you said it.


I know times are frustrating for everyone, this forum shoudl be where people can agree to disagree without feeling like they are being attacked...lets grow up people!

And....Have a Great Day !!! :)
 
No Tim not you.

You tell it like you see it. Your post was trying to help, the other post was pure ####. (since when can't we say c r a p?)

There are grumblers on here that I do think are idiots. They have to argue with someone everyday based on a very narrow view of their limited world.

I was reffering to wcox. (I was trying not to name names, i thought it was implied)



Bob
 
Bob Doyle said:
My only concern, and i hope I read this wrong, is that your worker is conducting private business transactions in your shop when you aren't there.
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First of all, my employee is also a good friend of mine, and we've come to an understanding on this sort of thing. Second, the actual transaction did occur offsite; the customer ordered the piece at an open studio event, and picking it up at the shop was a convenience. In fact, my assistant had left messages for this woman to call her and arrange the handoff... instead she just showed up on our doorstep unannounced. That's why the piece wasn't in the shop.
 
I to work a second job however its also mine. Its a family run business extremely succesfull and would not stop it . My wife is involved in both and everything runs smoothly. We do everything together as well as other family members and we have no issues with either business. I must say framing has slow down a lot but hopefully it will pick up soon.
Now about Jim getting a second job , my opinion is this:
You cant blame, hate or judge anyone trying to make a living. He is trying hard like the rest of us and at the end he will be succesfull because he is not lazy.
Lazy never succeed.
I personaly put 70 hours a week (except when vacationing 3 weeks a year). Keep it up buddy and you will succeed. Just keep a close eye on your shop and make sure things run the way you want them to run at all times.
Feel free to contact me for any reason , i have years of experience in business although i am only 32 years old.
:icon19::icon19::icon19::icon19:
 
wcox said:
Ya know it is people like Jim P that is destroying this industry. In one word unproffesionalism.

These are people that are NOT business people, nor many times are they know anything about framing or design. Most of the time they have no idea what they are doing, let along any proper training or even common sence but get into the biz thinking its fun. .........
And all of these unskilled, unproffesional people are taking each a bite out of someone who is dedicated, educated, and trained to be in business, and be the framing business.
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I have to disagree but I do hope that I'm a bit more respectful than you were to Jim.

My husband works in the frame shop many hours a week but has an outside job. In your opinion he is obviously one of the unskilled, unprofessional people. He also has his MCPF. I think that shows that he is dedicated, educated and trained to be in the business~ contrary to your opinion.

What's your training?
 
wcox said:
Ya know it is people like Jim P that is destroying this industry. In one word unproffesionalism.

These are people that are NOT business people, nor many times are they know anything about framing or design. Most of the time they have no idea what they are doing, let along any proper training or even common sence but get into the biz thinking its fun. And all they have to do is post a question on the Grumble and almost everyone jumps in to help them.

Like " do you use glue in joining frames?"

There is an old joke saying yesterday I didn;t know how to spell "Frammer", but today I R one.

How can you run a business and say sorry we are closed for thirty minutes on a tuesday afternoon for a confernece call??? Do you see M's closing for 30 mintues in the middle of the day??? Or walmart???


Think if you were to go out shopping and you stoped by a business in the middle of the day and it was closed cause they had something more important to do then be open to serve you?? During normal biz hours. Would you go back??

How can you get a new small bizness off the ground when you are working full time on another job? Either you are dedicated to one or the other, Can;t do both as Tim said.

And all of these unskilled, unproffesional people are taking each a bite out of someone who is dedicated, educated, and trained to be in business, and be the framing business.

And what is an assistant? If i walked into a frame shop I would want to talk to an expert. Not an assistant. And by the way they are not your assistant, they are your Employee
Click to expand...


Wow, I think the only one that is unprofessional is this guy (I assume it's a guy because I can't imagine a woman being so stupid (no offense to us men out there)). I was a theatre major in college and I have a lot of theatre/artist friends. I probably know 2 or three that only have one job, yet I would call every one of them professionals.

If you have something to say, try using a spell check, or a grammer check or having someone else type for you, because, not only do your words make you look bad, but so does your typing...one word, "unproffesional", ok, two words, unedjookated.

You might want to try sticking that foot somewhere else, other then your mouth.

Jim P, like I said before, do what you need to do to pay the bills and be happy. Don't feel bad about the situation, and if you need to, call that person and explain to them what happened (don't make excuses, just make sure they are left inspired to shop at your store in the future).

And to adjust what I had said, the person that covers for me is the previous shop owner, she is one of the nicest people I think I could have bought a shop from (other then the fact that she still takes my money, that would be a nicer person, not real, but nicer).
 
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