I had a customer bring in a vintage ad art poster last week complaining that the art gallery he had purchased it from, who had "thrown in" the framing, had neglected to show any of the white border on the poster and he wanted to have it reframed so he could see the border. I had to inform him that the border was gone. In reviewing the piece it looks as though on the sides and bottom the sides of the original paper are intact. The top border (maybe it wasn't square?) looks to have been cut, however. My guess is that the cut at the largest point would not have removed more than 3/16" of the original poster. I do not know enough about how these posters are valued to know if something like this would depreciate the value of the poster. My customer told me he paid about $10,000for the poster including framing. Just an aside, the framing was a total botch job.
Customer's $10,000 Poster Was Cut Down
- Thread starter scurran
- Start date
Class
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Jesus...
A customer who can afford to pay $10,000 for a poster probably has a good lawyer already. If I were you I would suggest a phone call to get a legal opinion. The loss could be substantial.
FramerRandy
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
In addition to Jim's suggestion, I would not do any work on this job other than to put it back "as is" if the customer wants you to. He'd be better off to take the pieces "as is" from you if he wants to persue anything with the business he paid the $$ for it :kaffeetrinker_2:
Framerguy
PFG, Picture Framing God
Was there a question in there somewhere??
If it were one of my customers, I would give the entire package back to him, as is, and suggest that he return it personally if possible to the frame shop that screwed him out of his 10 grand!!!
How long ago did he buy the poster??
Did he sign anything that had fine print on it when he paid for it??
And how did he pay for it, check, cash (OMG I hope not!!!), or credit card??
How was it (the poster) represented to him when he inquired about purchasing it??
Was the work that you found when you opened up the package the same as what your customer paid to have done??
And finally, if he is one of YOUR customers, why the heck is he buying junk from someone else???
If it were one of my customers, I would give the entire package back to him, as is, and suggest that he return it personally if possible to the frame shop that screwed him out of his 10 grand!!!
How long ago did he buy the poster??
Did he sign anything that had fine print on it when he paid for it??
And how did he pay for it, check, cash (OMG I hope not!!!), or credit card??
How was it (the poster) represented to him when he inquired about purchasing it??
Was the work that you found when you opened up the package the same as what your customer paid to have done??
And finally, if he is one of YOUR customers, why the heck is he buying junk from someone else???
There seems to be some rather stark inconsistencies in how we are to handle these matters.
I see some real distinct parallels between this art that wasn’t sold as it was represented and cruise art. I could list them but it wouldn’t change anybody’s mind. You too either see the similarities or you will justify their differences.
We tell each other “hey is money in my pocket and what do I care anyway? I’m not an art expert.”
Now we have a remarkably similar situation and we’re the art police and they should stop at nothing to correct the egregious act.
Right is always right and it doesn’t hinge on minor technicalities like price. I think if we are to be consistent we should respond with “so do you want museum glass added to this for only a couple of hundred dollars more and would that be Visa or cash?” Why the sudden concern when it’s otherwise conspicuously absent?
I see some real distinct parallels between this art that wasn’t sold as it was represented and cruise art. I could list them but it wouldn’t change anybody’s mind. You too either see the similarities or you will justify their differences.
We tell each other “hey is money in my pocket and what do I care anyway? I’m not an art expert.”
Now we have a remarkably similar situation and we’re the art police and they should stop at nothing to correct the egregious act.
Right is always right and it doesn’t hinge on minor technicalities like price. I think if we are to be consistent we should respond with “so do you want museum glass added to this for only a couple of hundred dollars more and would that be Visa or cash?” Why the sudden concern when it’s otherwise conspicuously absent?
Framerguy
PFG, Picture Framing God
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, Jay, or if you are even referring to my post or not. As I read the original beginning of this thread, the customer wanted the framed poster reframed so that he could see the border of the poster in the mat opening. I think that is what scurran was saying. And, when he tore the piece down, he found that the borders were cut off the poster. Now, if I am misunderstanding anything that he wrote, maybe I wasn't being all that realistic about the results of seeing what was done.
But if what I understand was true, I would no more touch that poster with a ten foot pole than do any additional work to it until the situation between the guy who originally framed it and the customer who paid $10,000 for it was completely cleared up!! Who do you think would be the first one to cry wolf and accuse the last one to work on the framing of cutting up the poster?? That idiot who did the work isn't gonna pop right up and admit to anything regardless of the circumstances. How much money do you suppose there is for scurran in this job if he/she reframes it and then becomes implicated somehow in a multi thousand dollar law suit for damages to that apparently valuable poster??
No matter what the price of the reframing, it wouldn't be worth the risk to me to do one minute's worth of work until everything was out in the open and all parties were in agreement that the original debt was paid to the satisfaction of the buyer and done with.
With that said, after all is cleared up with the first transaction, I say let the bucks roll in according to how much additional money the customer wants to spend to get his poster the way he wants it within the bounds of what is left to work with.
But if what I understand was true, I would no more touch that poster with a ten foot pole than do any additional work to it until the situation between the guy who originally framed it and the customer who paid $10,000 for it was completely cleared up!! Who do you think would be the first one to cry wolf and accuse the last one to work on the framing of cutting up the poster?? That idiot who did the work isn't gonna pop right up and admit to anything regardless of the circumstances. How much money do you suppose there is for scurran in this job if he/she reframes it and then becomes implicated somehow in a multi thousand dollar law suit for damages to that apparently valuable poster??
No matter what the price of the reframing, it wouldn't be worth the risk to me to do one minute's worth of work until everything was out in the open and all parties were in agreement that the original debt was paid to the satisfaction of the buyer and done with.
With that said, after all is cleared up with the first transaction, I say let the bucks roll in according to how much additional money the customer wants to spend to get his poster the way he wants it within the bounds of what is left to work with.
Rebecca
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
It sounds like a whole lot of "who knows?". The framer never saw the poster prior to unframing it. If I am understanding what scurran is saying, the top margin may or may not have been trimmed, and the possible trimmer may or may not have been the previous framer. There really is no way to tell who did what and IMO one would be ill advised to offer an opinion unless this is their particur area of expertise.
As far as I can tell, the present framer really has nothing to do with the situation. My advice would be to take photographs, with details of possible areas of concern, if they get the reframing job. And maybe give the client some names of appraisers, etc., who may be able to find catalogue references to original measurements etc.
Rebecca
As far as I can tell, the present framer really has nothing to do with the situation. My advice would be to take photographs, with details of possible areas of concern, if they get the reframing job. And maybe give the client some names of appraisers, etc., who may be able to find catalogue references to original measurements etc.
Rebecca
To add to Rebecca we aren't 100% certain anything has been done wrong at all.
Tom, I violated my rule about posting after you but I haven’t pointed anything specifically at anybody.
Most responses are 180 degrees out of phase with how we handle other art that may have been bought under less than ideal pretences.
A customer spends 3 house payments on an "original copy" of a Picasso and we are just framers and not art experts. A poster might have 3/16 of an inch cut off the top and we're digging for lawyers in the phone book. Either way the customer may not have bought what they were sold.
I would handle both of these exactly the same with the only difference being this poster has a bit of a C.Y.A. urgency to it. Other than that it’s just another one of those really YUCKY situations we have to deal with and I'm not sure there is a right or a wrong way. However it's dealt with, I would think constancy would be important.
Not your average framer
CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I think you need to be very careful about how you handle this situation, as you don't know what the outcome of this is going to be.
So here is what I would do:
Take notes of all that you have done, what you found and date them.
Take as many photographs as required to show the exact conidition of the poster and to show the quality of the previous framer work.
Prepare a letter to your customer, expressing your concern about what you have found as suggest to him that although you are willing to re-frame this poster, you are particularly concerned about what you have found and are recommending that he should obtain expert independant advice before proceeding. Post two copies of this letter one to your customer and one to yourself, include copies of the photographs in both letters, send them both by recorded delivery and get the post office to stamp over the stuck down flap in two or three places with their official stamp. When your own copy is delivered to you, don't open it, but keep it in a safe place.
If your customer wants to take it away, then he should sign for it and sign some kind of statement regarding what you have found and why you did not want to proceed with the work, again this should be dated. By doing these things you are seeking to establish a documentary trail of evidence, which not only may turn out to be for your benefit, be also may help you customer also if he wishes to take matters further by legal means.
So here is what I would do:
Take notes of all that you have done, what you found and date them.
Take as many photographs as required to show the exact conidition of the poster and to show the quality of the previous framer work.
Prepare a letter to your customer, expressing your concern about what you have found as suggest to him that although you are willing to re-frame this poster, you are particularly concerned about what you have found and are recommending that he should obtain expert independant advice before proceeding. Post two copies of this letter one to your customer and one to yourself, include copies of the photographs in both letters, send them both by recorded delivery and get the post office to stamp over the stuck down flap in two or three places with their official stamp. When your own copy is delivered to you, don't open it, but keep it in a safe place.
If your customer wants to take it away, then he should sign for it and sign some kind of statement regarding what you have found and why you did not want to proceed with the work, again this should be dated. By doing these things you are seeking to establish a documentary trail of evidence, which not only may turn out to be for your benefit, be also may help you customer also if he wishes to take matters further by legal means.
J Phipps TN
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Why was this not bleeped? I don't appreciate that kind of language. I happen to Love this Jesus and don't appreciate the use of His name in vain.
I don't curse on this forum and I would appreciate the same respect.
Where are the monitors?
Sorry to interrupt, but Please!
Bob Doyle
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Why was this not bleeped?
Where are the monitors?
Sorry to interrupt, but Please!
Jen, please.
Let's not promote censorship. as to the monitors, they are in front of you, turn it off if offended.
Class
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
No offense ment
In a way i agree with both jay and everyone else or almost everyone.
Jay has said,"A customer spends 3 house payments on an "original copy" of a Picasso and we are just framers and not art experts. A poster might have 3/16 of an inch cut off the top and we're digging for lawyers in the phone book. Either way the customer may not have bought what they were sold.
I would handle both of these exactly the same with the only difference being this poster has a bit of a C.Y.A. urgency to it. Other than that it’s just another one of those really YUCKY situations we have to deal with and I'm not sure there is a right or a wrong way. However it's dealt with, I would think constancy would be important.
And followed that with," I would handle both of these exactly the same with the only difference being this poster has a bit of a C.Y.A. urgency to it."
I like Tom am not really sure what Jay is trying to prove but to me he has said what a lot of us have said is the very reason for being extremely CAUTIOUS when dealing with things that may end up it litigation and he is absolutely correct that the big bucks aren't the sole reason someone might be so doing.
So to make assumptions just because WE PERSONALY SEE NO HARM may be exposing our backsides very much. However the probability of anyone seeking compensation in the courts and being able to do so is as Jim suggest very directly proportional to their ability to Pay Big bucks for somethings like this but by no means limited to cost alone.
I also thinks what was suggest wasn't for anyone to seek out an attorney but that it might be in the best interest of the owner to persue and investigation of who did what to cause the misrepresentation and possibly utilize an attorney which they may already have on retainer.
But Jay's very PHRASE "C.Y.A." is what I think all here are advising and what I and many have suggested for reasons for caution when even dealing with ANY work that may be deemed irreplaceable and a Good attorney and/or Court might rule and suggest that with our experience and training we should have taken due diligence and not proceeded in causeing any further harm. More over Whom ever is guilty ( if anyone is) they are very unlikely to admit their error and will probably be only too willing to welcome a scapegoat so why do we want to supply them the opportunity on a silver platter, just to make a sale ? After all when the dust settles you probably will have the admiration and respect of the art owner and may just have a future customer and advertiser.
BUDDY
Jay has said,"A customer spends 3 house payments on an "original copy" of a Picasso and we are just framers and not art experts. A poster might have 3/16 of an inch cut off the top and we're digging for lawyers in the phone book. Either way the customer may not have bought what they were sold.
I would handle both of these exactly the same with the only difference being this poster has a bit of a C.Y.A. urgency to it. Other than that it’s just another one of those really YUCKY situations we have to deal with and I'm not sure there is a right or a wrong way. However it's dealt with, I would think constancy would be important.
And followed that with," I would handle both of these exactly the same with the only difference being this poster has a bit of a C.Y.A. urgency to it."
I like Tom am not really sure what Jay is trying to prove but to me he has said what a lot of us have said is the very reason for being extremely CAUTIOUS when dealing with things that may end up it litigation and he is absolutely correct that the big bucks aren't the sole reason someone might be so doing.
So to make assumptions just because WE PERSONALY SEE NO HARM may be exposing our backsides very much. However the probability of anyone seeking compensation in the courts and being able to do so is as Jim suggest very directly proportional to their ability to Pay Big bucks for somethings like this but by no means limited to cost alone.
I also thinks what was suggest wasn't for anyone to seek out an attorney but that it might be in the best interest of the owner to persue and investigation of who did what to cause the misrepresentation and possibly utilize an attorney which they may already have on retainer.
But Jay's very PHRASE "C.Y.A." is what I think all here are advising and what I and many have suggested for reasons for caution when even dealing with ANY work that may be deemed irreplaceable and a Good attorney and/or Court might rule and suggest that with our experience and training we should have taken due diligence and not proceeded in causeing any further harm. More over Whom ever is guilty ( if anyone is) they are very unlikely to admit their error and will probably be only too willing to welcome a scapegoat so why do we want to supply them the opportunity on a silver platter, just to make a sale ? After all when the dust settles you probably will have the admiration and respect of the art owner and may just have a future customer and advertiser.
BUDDY
There shouldn't be any confusion. I can't say any more simply that its inconsistant to call out the guards with this customer and disreguard the same concern in other art that may have been missrepresented.
This piece is a very significant purchase and may not have that much value. I would certinaly share my concerns about the art. I would share what has happened in the past with situations like this. We owe at least that much to the customer and have the responcibility to CYA. After that the customer leads this dance. How they react after that is how I react.
Am I talking about fradulent art or damaged art? No matter because I handle both the same way.
Tell the customer, show the customer, document everything in question, and move on under their direction. I can't understand all the panic. If the price tag is what causing all the panic then perhaps your handling art outside your comfort range and should rethink what you should take in. But to push all your unrest onto a customer isn't anyway to handle anything especically if you haven't done anything wrong.
Following my own advice, if you walk into my shop with a $10,000 poster, I direct you down the street. I don't work on $10,000 anything - ever. Thankfully that just doesn't happen round here.
This piece is a very significant purchase and may not have that much value. I would certinaly share my concerns about the art. I would share what has happened in the past with situations like this. We owe at least that much to the customer and have the responcibility to CYA. After that the customer leads this dance. How they react after that is how I react.
Am I talking about fradulent art or damaged art? No matter because I handle both the same way.
Tell the customer, show the customer, document everything in question, and move on under their direction. I can't understand all the panic. If the price tag is what causing all the panic then perhaps your handling art outside your comfort range and should rethink what you should take in. But to push all your unrest onto a customer isn't anyway to handle anything especically if you haven't done anything wrong.
Following my own advice, if you walk into my shop with a $10,000 poster, I direct you down the street. I don't work on $10,000 anything - ever. Thankfully that just doesn't happen round here.
PaulSF
PFG, Picture Framing God
Why was this not bleeped? I don't appreciate that kind of language. I happen to Love this Jesus and don't appreciate the use of His name in vain.
I don't curse on this forum and I would appreciate the same respect.
Where are the monitors?
Sorry to interrupt, but Please!
I thought he was referring to the second baseman for the Expos.
the customer IS a lawyer
ha ha. and a Philadelphia lawyer at that. He purchased the poster while on a business trip while killing a few minutes between appts. His understanding was that he would see probably about a 3/4" show of the paper the original poster had already been mounted to. I think the art gallery misunderstood when he said he did not want a mat (which he called a border). He bought it about a year ago and just found the time to bring it in to me to reframe last week. At this point, after much wasted time on my part, the art gallery has requested that the piece be sent back to them so they can soak it to remove the backing they originally mounted it to then remount it so that my customer can have a "border". I do feel pretty sure that some portion of the original was trimmed from the top but am not an appraiser or conservator so am concerned (on my customer's behalf) about releasing the piece back to them without having the issue resolved. Personally, I am also curious about their ability to "soak" the piece (?) and remount it without causing possible additional damage to the piece. I'm leaning toward telling my customer to take the piece to an appraiser before sending it back to the gallery he purchased it from although I know if I just shut up, document that I made notification of the issue, reframe it in a nice expensive frame and move on my customer would probably be happier.???????
ha ha. and a Philadelphia lawyer at that. He purchased the poster while on a business trip while killing a few minutes between appts. His understanding was that he would see probably about a 3/4" show of the paper the original poster had already been mounted to. I think the art gallery misunderstood when he said he did not want a mat (which he called a border). He bought it about a year ago and just found the time to bring it in to me to reframe last week. At this point, after much wasted time on my part, the art gallery has requested that the piece be sent back to them so they can soak it to remove the backing they originally mounted it to then remount it so that my customer can have a "border". I do feel pretty sure that some portion of the original was trimmed from the top but am not an appraiser or conservator so am concerned (on my customer's behalf) about releasing the piece back to them without having the issue resolved. Personally, I am also curious about their ability to "soak" the piece (?) and remount it without causing possible additional damage to the piece. I'm leaning toward telling my customer to take the piece to an appraiser before sending it back to the gallery he purchased it from although I know if I just shut up, document that I made notification of the issue, reframe it in a nice expensive frame and move on my customer would probably be happier.???????
If he actually did pay ten grand for this old piece of paper, my gut feeling is that you are now involved in a lawsuit. I did not see any question in your post at all. Why did he bring it to you? Do not be surprised if his law firm contacts you, hope you like depositions.
Well your last post just made my observation moot. My revised advise would be to give your customer your opinion and advise, then leave it in his hands. Make a copy of this thread since you have written down all the pertinent information, and now have a record to keep.
John
Well your last post just made my observation moot. My revised advise would be to give your customer your opinion and advise, then leave it in his hands. Make a copy of this thread since you have written down all the pertinent information, and now have a record to keep.
John
Then just make your customer happy. No massive amount of damage was done, the mounting sheet obviously got a wee trim but where is the harm in that? Sell the frame, get the poster on the wall, your customer is now fully informed and is willing to make a decision - so what if it's not the same as everyone else's...
Emibub
PFG, Picture Framing God
Let's all keep cool heads and allow "Jesus" to stay. We don't know what the intent of the post was. It could have been a cry for guidance.....or as suggested possibly Jesus Ortiz or Garcia. Who knows? Moments like these are ideal for Jennifer and others to declare their dedication so it is all good. In my book anyway.
Class
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Seriously I ment no offense... I love baseball.
Emibub
PFG, Picture Framing God
No worries Class! some of us just like to fly our freak flag once and a while and stand up for freedom of speech or not. No harm done.
J Phipps TN
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Kathy,
somehow I expected that from you. Thanks for the support!:kaffeetrinker_2:
Sorry to make you feel bad Class. It just really does offend me. I understand some people talk that way and I'm not judging you personally. I would just appreciate a little respect in that area.
Thank you for understanding,
Jennifer
somehow I expected that from you. Thanks for the support!:kaffeetrinker_2:
Sorry to make you feel bad Class. It just really does offend me. I understand some people talk that way and I'm not judging you personally. I would just appreciate a little respect in that area.
Thank you for understanding,
Jennifer
FramerDave
PFG, Picture Framing God
Kathy,
somehow I expected that from you. Thanks for the support!:kaffeetrinker_2:
Sorry to make you feel bad Class. It just really does offend me. I understand some people talk that way and I'm not judging you personally. I would just appreciate a little respect in that area.
Thank you for understanding,
Jennifer
Well just as long as you respect the Flying Spaghetti Monster we'll all get along. Yes, I'm a Pastafarian.
Touched by his noodley appendages.
Ramen.
ok, threadjack over...carry on
Since OPININS are like A holes and everyone has one.
Johns comment ,"my gut feeling is that you are now involved in a lawsuit. "
Just lighted the light bulb and an old memory in my feeble old mind. I have mentioned before that when i was in business there was a successful litigation where a few Framers where dragged into court for framing Slicks of Patty Bannister and selling the finished work as Framed art. ( that is another story we will skip for now or again. The point being plaintiffs and their Attorneys utilized an unknown gallery to ask for framers willing to join in this venture and shopped it all over to see who would bite. I was also approached and due to some mistakes they made in their offer I balked and never was more Happy.
John's post makes me wonder along with scurran's comment that ,"ha ha. and a Philadelphia lawyer at that." if this might not just be a similar rouses. Wouldn't it be feasible for this attorney to come in to a shop and "ACT DUMB" like calling a mat a BORDER and ask what scurran would suggest in the way of a redo, to see what scurran said he saw wrong?
This might be just the fuel neede to litigate any damages against the original framer when it was brought to trial, with NO DUE INFLUENCE, from a trained framing expert ( which most if not all of us can be so classified)?
I mean doesn't anyone else have some suspicions about a few points in this entire story? First this Guy just happens to be an ATTORNEY who bought this piece a YEAR ago and only now wants to correct what didn't get done right then? He spent $10,000 and just let it lie around till now. he also spent that amount but didn't even take the time to learn that it is called a MAT not a BORDER or even now when he does want it done correctly?
Then there is the questions about the original farmer who just may have TRIMED and original work by scurran's trained eye's estimation but now suggest SOAKING it to remove it from a backing and even if no trimming was done why couldn't they get the customers wishes done and did they do or suggest the backing situation and all on what was costing $10,000 even if terribly overpriced even worse than any Cruise Art auction.
IMHO JRB is very observant and has given very prudent advise , not unlike a lot of others who have suggested CYA but for a well founded SUSPICION.
But in a much better phraseology , "Opinions are personal and therefore very subject to error." and what you have just read is my very personal one with all it's probable errors , but not any worse than any others that have been posted here. Only differance is mine won't end up in a witness box .
buddy
Johns comment ,"my gut feeling is that you are now involved in a lawsuit. "
Just lighted the light bulb and an old memory in my feeble old mind. I have mentioned before that when i was in business there was a successful litigation where a few Framers where dragged into court for framing Slicks of Patty Bannister and selling the finished work as Framed art. ( that is another story we will skip for now or again. The point being plaintiffs and their Attorneys utilized an unknown gallery to ask for framers willing to join in this venture and shopped it all over to see who would bite. I was also approached and due to some mistakes they made in their offer I balked and never was more Happy.
John's post makes me wonder along with scurran's comment that ,"ha ha. and a Philadelphia lawyer at that." if this might not just be a similar rouses. Wouldn't it be feasible for this attorney to come in to a shop and "ACT DUMB" like calling a mat a BORDER and ask what scurran would suggest in the way of a redo, to see what scurran said he saw wrong?
This might be just the fuel neede to litigate any damages against the original framer when it was brought to trial, with NO DUE INFLUENCE, from a trained framing expert ( which most if not all of us can be so classified)?
I mean doesn't anyone else have some suspicions about a few points in this entire story? First this Guy just happens to be an ATTORNEY who bought this piece a YEAR ago and only now wants to correct what didn't get done right then? He spent $10,000 and just let it lie around till now. he also spent that amount but didn't even take the time to learn that it is called a MAT not a BORDER or even now when he does want it done correctly?
Then there is the questions about the original farmer who just may have TRIMED and original work by scurran's trained eye's estimation but now suggest SOAKING it to remove it from a backing and even if no trimming was done why couldn't they get the customers wishes done and did they do or suggest the backing situation and all on what was costing $10,000 even if terribly overpriced even worse than any Cruise Art auction.
IMHO JRB is very observant and has given very prudent advise , not unlike a lot of others who have suggested CYA but for a well founded SUSPICION.
But in a much better phraseology , "Opinions are personal and therefore very subject to error." and what you have just read is my very personal one with all it's probable errors , but not any worse than any others that have been posted here. Only differance is mine won't end up in a witness box .
buddy
Jerry Ervin
PFG, Picture Framing God
Now that just might be a religion I could sink my teeth into.
A little anointed olive oil, some sacramental red wine.
Now I'm getting hungry. I need to hit the Italian place next door for some lunch.
Unfortunately establishing a filter to exclude any word can not be programmed to filter for intent. The word will just not be seen (#####).
The Grumble is pretty even handed...there's something here to offend everybody. If you find it overly offensive, please stop reading. I don't think the moderators would be inclined to censor anything based on any religious or ethnic basis unless there was obvious hatred involved, and as we have seen, the post was not intended to insult.
What really gets my goat is that some folks have egregious misspellings in their Sig lines and don't even know it.
The Grumble is pretty even handed...there's something here to offend everybody. If you find it overly offensive, please stop reading. I don't think the moderators would be inclined to censor anything based on any religious or ethnic basis unless there was obvious hatred involved, and as we have seen, the post was not intended to insult.
What really gets my goat is that some folks have egregious misspellings in their Sig lines and don't even know it.
Kev@Frames
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Akward situation. "cover your a*se" 
Get someone else (independent expert) to sling any mud.
last to touch it, is it
Do you really want to be stuck as man in the middle between someone who sells 10,000 dollar posters, and someone who can afford to buy them?
Yup, the litigation culture is alive and thriving this side of the pond as well!
Get someone else (independent expert) to sling any mud.last to touch it, is it
Do you really want to be stuck as man in the middle between someone who sells 10,000 dollar posters, and someone who can afford to buy them?
Yup, the litigation culture is alive and thriving this side of the pond as well!
D_Derbonne
PFG, Picture Framing God
Wally, it's been nearly 2 years and you've finally figured out how to post a picture of Mardi.
Congratulations on your new avatar!
Congratulations on your new avatar!
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Posts
- 9,066
- Business
- Retired
It's OK Kev - you can say 'arse' here but not ### (see!) (another word for 'donkey')
Wally Now that you Posted Mardi's picture
Wally As sson as Marie can stand near the PC I know she is going to want to see your avatar.
When we vistied your shop all she spoke about was how she'd take Mardi in a heart beat ( only she thougt his name was Marty . Mardi is even Better in this neck of the woods. MARDI GRAS!) . And we have our son in Jacksonsvilles two Hounds here now and some times we wish we didn't. But Mardi is a Dog of a different color in more than one way/LOL
How Can I blow up your avatar and print it?
BUDDY
Wally As sson as Marie can stand near the PC I know she is going to want to see your avatar.
When we vistied your shop all she spoke about was how she'd take Mardi in a heart beat ( only she thougt his name was Marty . Mardi is even Better in this neck of the woods. MARDI GRAS!) . And we have our son in Jacksonsvilles two Hounds here now and some times we wish we didn't. But Mardi is a Dog of a different color in more than one way/LOL
How Can I blow up your avatar and print it?
BUDDY
Buddy, email me your address and I'll send Marie a print out of Mardi's photo. This thread has gone to the dogs hasn't it? BTW his name is Mardi Gras Parti Poodle (Mardi or Mookie for short), and no, Marie can't have him.
uggghh
Do you really want to be stuck as man in the middle between someone who sells 10,000 dollar posters, and someone who can afford to buy them?
(forgot to copy poster's name)
Exactly! I just spent the last day and a half packing the poster to mail back to the original seller while taking photos and notes the whole way. This after all the phone calls, photos and emails. I don't even usually offer shipping. Wish I'd kept my big mouth shut or at the very least that this poster had never walked in. Cost me a fortune in time. And what can I charge for all this? ...I'm thinking about 2 hour's worth of labor at our shop rate. Hopefully I've managed to protect myself, though.
Thanks for the help, all.
Do you really want to be stuck as man in the middle between someone who sells 10,000 dollar posters, and someone who can afford to buy them?
(forgot to copy poster's name)
Exactly! I just spent the last day and a half packing the poster to mail back to the original seller while taking photos and notes the whole way. This after all the phone calls, photos and emails. I don't even usually offer shipping. Wish I'd kept my big mouth shut or at the very least that this poster had never walked in. Cost me a fortune in time. And what can I charge for all this? ...I'm thinking about 2 hour's worth of labor at our shop rate. Hopefully I've managed to protect myself, though.
Thanks for the help, all.
We all feel your pain. I can see it now: as you present the bill for your time and effort you hear, "Pay you for what? You didn't DO anything."
Rick
(Of course, under the circumstances, hearing "You didn't do anything" from this person might be music to your ears.)
Rick(Of course, under the circumstances, hearing "You didn't do anything" from this person might be music to your ears.)
Send the bill to the place you shipped the work back to.
Bob Doyle
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
We all feel your pain. I can see it now: as you present the bill for your time and effort you hear, "Pay you for what? You didn't DO anything."
(Of course, under the circumstances, hearing "You didn't do anything" from this person might be music to your ears.)
You mentioned the customer was a Philly lawyer, just tell him it was a consultation fee he'll understand. Of course he'll also want copies of the photos you took, and it might cost you to have him "notarize" the photos for you!
Paul N
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
A lawyer huh?
I'd even charge him for the time spent on the Grumble as consulting and research fee. He'd understand!!
And don't forget, photocopies are $10, each. Be creative.
I'd even charge him for the time spent on the Grumble as consulting and research fee. He'd understand!!
And don't forget, photocopies are $10, each. Be creative.