Customer (Dis)Service at L-J

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Bill Henry-

Bill Henry-

Brussel Sprout Connoisseur
Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Posts
21,554
Loc
Boondock Bowerbank, ME
Business
Retired from the grind
Oh, those merry pranksters at Larson-Juhl!

Faced with the welcomed news last month that Larson-Juhl was raising its prices, I complained on this forum that their online site was not up to date.

I complained to my sales rep, too. He called the IT department, waking them up from their nap and, so, after a few weeks they updated the pricing web site. Cool. According to their site, the page was updated on July 29, 2004 and the prices would go into effect August 16. Thanks, Larson-Juhl!

Being a Mac user, I had to find a PC buddy who was still speaking to me, send him the file, have him extract the data and send it back. Okay, not too much of a problem. (He’s still p*ssed at me for sticking him with a bar bill, but ... that’s another story.)

When I compared this “updated” version to my current price list, I was thrilled. The prices went down pretty near 20¢ a foot. Wow! That’s amazing!

Then I looked at the creation date of the “pricetxt.exe” file … <u>April</u>, 2004.

Now, instead of being able to update my pricing in 20 minutes, I’ve got to blow this up coming weekend going through Larson-Juhl’s squint-print paper edition culling pricing information in eye blurring 3 point type.

Thanks, Larson-Juhl, youse guys really know how to tell a joke. No wonder your customers are so pleased with you.

<font face=madrone size=3>Rowlbazzle!</font>
 
Bill,

Calm down. Read your signature line. What, pray tell, is wrong with not updating a pricelist before it goes into effect?

Pat :D :D
 
Wouldn't it be easier to get a PC and/or use a POS program? The business world is almost exclusevely PC. (yes there is Unix, Mac, Linix) I think Mac is less that 5% of the computer world. Much of the use is in the graphic art industry.

My downloads and updates are done in a sew seconds to a minute or 2 depending on the size of the update files.

At $150 per year service it sure beats the hassle you are complaining about.

As a person who still uses WordPerfect, I pay the price of not following the Microsoft plan. I work around it and do not complain about my choice in software.
 
Wouldn't it be easier to get a PC and/or use a POS program?
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Heck, no!

I don’t want to spring for $1500 for software and Lord knows how much for an ugly Windoze based machine to have it take up valuable real estate on my POS counter (and trip over the cables I’d need) only to make my shop look like the take out counter of a Burger King.

No, the Mac’s fine; that’s not the problem. Once I get the needed file (only a minor hassle as long as I still have a friend or two left), it’s easy to slip into my spreadsheet … if only I could get current information from Larson-Juhl.

… and by the way, since LifeSaver (or whatever you’re using) gets its info from Larson-Juhl, are <u>you</u> sure that <u>your</u> data is current? I’d be suspicious since their electronic version is bogus.
 
Originally posted by Bill Henry:
I don’t want to spring for $1500 for software and Lord knows how much for an ugly Windoze based machine to have it take up valuable real estate on my POS counter (and trip over the cables I’d need)
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I haven't looked in a long time, gave up on a POS program and use Quick books, but isn't there a MAC version of FrameReady?

Originally posted by JFeig:
I think Mac is less that 5% of the computer world. Much of the use is in the graphic art industry.
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But aren't WE in the Graphic Art Industry? I use a PC and personnally steer clear of MACs, but MACs do dominate the visual arts world and in the schools. Stick with your MAC and lean how to do the file transfers yourself. You may waste a couple of hours the first few times, but once you learn it you won't have to keep chasing after freinds to do it for you. My wife works in the schools and she has had to learn how to translate her Word documents into Macspeak. Now she doesn't have to hunt for the IT person in the school district, saves her time now but it was like pulling teeth in the beginning!
 
I think framesmart was less than $300. I would pay more than that now that I have used it!

I hadn't thought that the prices might also be wrong. Their not! Thanks for the headsup though.

[ 08-05-2004, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Jay H ]
 
I have a 17" IMAC that takes up hardly any space at all. We use FrameReady and it was money very well spent. No regrets at all.

Scott Mantecon
Coastal FrameWorks
 
Frameready currently has a "List price" of $1,100 US. They do have show specials. You should have purchased it about 1 1/2 years ago when the special was $500 US.
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And it was originally designed in a MAC.


The Graphic Arts Industry I was referring to is normally considered as:

Advertising
Publishing
Printing
Animation

There is also

movies
sound editing

which are very big on MACs
 
Bill, you really ought to consider POS software. Aside from the advantages of keeping your costs & prices as current as possible, here are a few other advantages of FrameReady, that I see in my business:

1. It's the best way to keep customer data

2. It's the best way to keep order histories

3. It offers good management reporting on specific product areas, in addition to what we have configured into QuickBooksPro.

4. It sorts mailing lists for dedicated mailings; mailing lists can be exported to other programs.

5. Via local area network, we can write orders or perform other POS functions on all four computers at once.

6. We update costs and prices with a few keystrokes, instead of hours (days?) every couple of months.
 
7. price calculation errors are not made.

8. price changes for Fitting, Mats, Glass, Other charges are a snap

9. appearance is VERY professonal to customers.
 
Stick with your MAC and lean how to do the file transfers yourself. You may waste a couple of hours the first few times, but once you learn it you won't have to keep chasing after freinds to do it for you.
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The file transfers or importation isn't the problem.

AppleWorks can open (and save to) most common spreadsheet formats like Excel, Quatro Pro, MS Works, dBase III. The problem I have is initially opening Larson-Juhl's initial executable file having the extension, .exe. Once the initial password protected file is opened, the tab delimited .txt file or the .dbf file is a snap to fiddle with.

But without a Windows emulator, a Mac cannot handle an .exe file. That's why I have to export the .exe files to a PC.

... but it is moot 'cause the files on L-J's price list site are four months old, :mad:
 
I can appreciate the proponents of POS systems. They do have some advantages over a DIY spreadsheet, but …

Several years ago, I spoke to Tim Dardis who was developing “LifeSaver” (at the time it was written for Macintosh). I got a demo, and with ResEdit, I “popped the hood” on the program. It was at that time simply a Mac shell written over a public domain spreadsheet (? FoxPro?). I am sure after these years have passed, it is much better program than it once was.

However, at the time it didn’t have the flexibility I wanted, and, I figured that if I wrote my own spreadsheet templates, I could get a fine tune pricing exactly the way I wanted. I did and I do.

I use both AppleWorks and MS Office. While Office is extraordinarily sophisticated and has a lot more bells and whistles, AppleWorks, in many cases and IMHO, has better integratration with its modules. Plus, AW has a built in DataBase module which Office lacks – you’ve gotta get FileMakerPro to make it truly complete. So, I am able to accomplish your nine points without a POS system except for

#3 – Admittedly I don’t have good management reporting on <u>specific product </u>areas,

#7 – I occasionally do make arithmetical error – not too often, though, but

# 9 – I’m still not convinced that customers expecting “old world” craftsmanship look favorably on a flickering CRT screen on the desk.
 
I would just ask my LJ rep to provide updated pricing for me. Before we got smart and installed Specialty Soft, he would do that for me any time I asked. That really bites about your wasted time/energy, but I think LJ is one of the best suppliers going (and I have used alot). If they want your business, they will work for it.
 
Bill,

I wonder how many of your customers actually DO look for "old world craftsmanship" in your shop??

If that is the pervading environment that you are presenting to your customers, why not trade in that awful computer on an abacus, throw out the calculator and ball point pen, and use a quill pen, real India ink, and write up your workorders on some deckle edged hand cast paper for your customers??
thumbsup.gif
:D

Framerguy
 
Bill I have a Mac and I DO really resent using our Lifesaver on a PC. That is why I purchased Lifesaver because it was originally for a Mac.

That being said I would never go back to doing without a POS program. It is so easy to look up orders for a repeat cuatomer. It is so easy to track our orders on the calendar. So easy to look up a balance on an account. If something needs to be added on it is easy to add a PIA charge when-ever you want on the fly.
Customers never question the computer on prices. It doesn't take up much space..just a flat screen and a keyboard.
We could switch to Frameready for the Mac but we have so many years of Lifesaver files I just hate to switch.
 
Originally posted by Framerguy:
Bill,

I wonder how many of your customers actually DO look for "old world craftsmanship" in your shop??

If that is the pervading environment that you are presenting to your customers, why not trade in that awful computer on an abacus, throw out the calculator and ball point pen, and use a quill pen, real India ink, and write up your workorders on some deckle edged hand cast paper for your customers??
thumbsup.gif
:D

Framerguy
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That would be a beautiful touch! I think if I lived in NH (or preferably in AZ if AZ has no sales tax!) I may think seriously about doing that, especially the quill and deckled hand paper. What a great look that conjures up! Almost as good as CharlesL mushroom guru!

But living in a state with a sales tax I will keep my Quickbooks! When living my first year with hand written invoices sales tax took a good day to process by hand. With Quickbooks its a mouse click.
 
We were unhappy with the space ours was taking on the counter, so I put the computer UNDER the counter and installed a small shelf on the wall, which sticks out 6". The keyboard and mouse sit on the little shelf, while the monitor is LCD and is mounted directly to the wall above it.

We use a POS and get the weekly online updates. The last Larson update we had as about a week ago, with two new lines (which I assume are destined to be unveiled in Atlanta?). Lifesaver was designed with the Visual Foxpro database language, and has come a LONG way since it's mac days
Version 4.04 was released just last night.

If you want to spot check a couple prices, email me privately (moulding IDs) and i'll be glad to compare notes with what LJ provided.

Mike
 
Mr Henry,

Your first complaint was with L-J and we have taken over with our POS talk. Complain to L-J about making the data Mac friendly. If they don't harass your rep to get you the data file e-mailed to you. Make your rep open the file him/herself for you, and complain repeatedly till s/he does.

I repped for a company in a different industry. The clients had a bear of a time complaining to the Company, but when they complained to me, and made my job a nightmare chasing down problems like this you can bet I complained to the tech support people and got the problem taken care of.

Right now your complaints are probably being treated as anonymous single complaints, you get your rep involved and all of a sudden the complaints will have a name, a face and a priority attached to them. They really will be addressed much quicker!
 
Bill, I don't know if this will help but here is an excerpt from an email from our L-J rep that I received on 7/30:

The mailing has been completed and you should have received your copy of the new price list by now. If you have not received a price list, make sure you send me an email or leave me a voice mail.

All software companies (Full-Calc, Specialty Soft) have been notified of the new pricing and our pricing file they download from Larson Juhl has already been updated.

The price list available for you to download has been updated (www.ljcustomers.com).

The interactive product catalog will be updated with the new pricing on August 16.

The LJ-Direct Ordering System will be updated with the new pricing on August 16.
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Complain to L-J about making the data Mac friendly. If they don't harass your rep to get you the data file e-mailed to you. Make your rep open the file him/herself for you, and complain repeatedly till s/he does.
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Bob,

I talked to someone at L-J’s IT department a few months back. I tried to convince him that if you need an account number to get into the site, it was redundant to require a password to open the .exe file. “Why not just present the files as tab delimited?”, I asked. “I dunno!”, he said.

My rep is probably the same as yours. By his admission he is not too tech savvy. He seemed surprised when I showed him my LOOKUP table comparing my current prices to those presented online. I don’t think he knew you could do that.

All software companies (Full-Calc, Specialty Soft) have been notified of the new pricing and our pricing file they download from Larson Juhl has already been updated.
The price list available for you to download has been updated (www.ljcustomers.com)
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Ron,

Unfortunately, as of yesterday, although the site claims it was updated on the 29th of July and prices were to made effective on August 16, the actual file I downloaded (“pricetxt.exe”) had a creation date in April. It is way out of date. If your POS software company is using data from http://www.larsonjuhl.com/download/larsonj.htm , it, too, is not current.

Note: I just checked the www.ljcustomers.com site and the creation date for that file through that portal is July 29. I haven't gotten my friend to return the opened file, yet.
 
L-J is making a lot of website changes, so check with your rep to make sure you're downloading from the current one.

If that's inconvenient, let me know and I'll forward the emails from my rep that give details about this (if you can read my emails on a Mac :D )
 
What about getting Virtual PC for your Mac? That way you can open any PC info while still on your Mac and you should be able to save it off and then reopen it in the Mac O/S.

Just a thought.
 
(if you can read my emails on a Mac )
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Thanks, Ron, but since I can read e-mail spam about Japanese sex toys … pstuuth! to you!

What about getting Virtual PC for your Mac?
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Framah,

I’ve considered that in the past, but for a Mac Addict it seems like a sell out i.e. sort of like taking your sister to the prom then trying not to be embarrassed about it. Besides, emulators are pretty slow from what I’ve heard.
 
Originally posted by Bill Henry:
I can appreciate the proponents of POS systems. They do have some advantages over a DIY spreadsheet, but...if I wrote my own spreadsheet templates, I could get a fine tune pricing exactly the way I wanted. I did and I do...I am able to accomplish your nine points without a POS system except for...
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Well, yes. I suppose you could build your own automobile, too, and it would do exactly what you want it to do. But at what cost?

By using the professional POS system of your choice, you could save dozens of hours annually spent updating & working on your own program.

You might easily save a day a month, which you probably spend doing things with your program that you wouldn't have to do with a professional POS. If your shop labor rate is $50/hour, that amounts to $4,800 per year. That's several times what the best programs cost.

And that's assuming your program has all the design features of the best programs. If your program isn't as fast-changeable at the design counter, the savings figures get really crazy.

What in the world are you waiting for?
 
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