cool opportunity

[Framecrazy]

Okay, I need advice. An artist is going to do a show for the opening of a recreation complex. I have been asked by a third party to do all of his frames.
How do you do it?
-Do you go low $ and consider it advertising and possible future business.?(put out your own brochures, cards, and put stickers on everything, even ask to help in the booth)
-Do you just charge the artist what you charge everyone else and consider it another job?
-Or do you go high knowing he is going to mark it up when he sells it and consider it an opportunity to make a profit(probably not this one)?

I'm excited!! This is a really good artist too.

 

[freakquency]

Since the show is not at your space and you will not see any the profits from the sales I would give the artist an artists/quantity discount and call it quits there.

 

[Dave]

I think it depends on a number of factors.

1.) How easy they are to work with.
2.) Payment arrangements ...get it up front.
3.) Who's installing?
4.) What exposure you get.

etc.

I'd be inclined at the start to give them 15-20% off unless there are difficult circumstances or people to deal with.

 

[dougj]

I would watchout for this one beining a third party is asking. They might be looking for you to donate the framing!
I would deal with the artist up front and would work with the artist as you would any other artist. After all the artist is going to windup with all his art work framed.

 

[Framecrazy]

This opening is in 2009. The rec complex has been a huge deal in our community. This opening is going to be for all the big wigs, business owners, chamber members, club members. People who know other people. I am going to be proud just to be associated with this artist in a professional way. And to be trusted by him to frame his work.

I just want to have myself ready for when we start dealing. I want to be ready for any questions I might be asked and know what kind of deals I might be expected to make. Ya'll are the pros here.

 

[CLovely]

We do give a "framing to show" discount of up to 10%; we are comfortable that we usually "save" that back on labor as set-up time is less on multiples..

What works very well is shrink wrap. If an artist is putting smaller scale reproductions of their work in the show we discount matting, mounting, and shrinkwrapping of these IF we can put our card and a coupon on it. About 40% return as framing jobs, usually as new customers.

KK

 

[RoboFramer]

I'd just apply my normal discount, which is up to 20% for quantity of the same size and materials. Or the same for larger quantities of mixed sizes/materials, as long as each one is not different!

If the items are for sale then the artist has the option of marking the frames back up to your normal retail, or not, or even marking them up more!

For artists/photographers that I feel the same way about as you do yours, I have even framed on consignement, thereby totally writing off what is a huge expense for them.

This means they can go for 'no expense spared' - but you have to be confident that their shows are going to be sell-outs - and/or that you can re-use any unsold frames.

Then again, it works both ways, if the artist is confident of a sell-out, why shouldn't s/he pay up front?

Also sometimes the quantities envolved have got my suppliers excited and they have offered me further discounts, which are not passed on, and anyway, the initial 20% offered is usually just a normal supplier's discount that IS passed on, so, in fact, I'm actually charging what I 'should' be.

 

[JRB]

-Or do you go high knowing he is going to mark it up when he sells it and consider it an opportunity to make a profit(probably not this one)?

I'm excited!! This is a really good artist too.

This strikes me as awfully odd, why on earth would you increase your prices based on the possibility the artist might make some money. That is what you want the artist to do, sell a lot of paintings so that they will need more of your framing.

The artists will most assuredly add the cost of framing to the selling price, which could cancel out more than a few sales if that framing cost is high enough.

I guess what is bothering me the most though is the ethics behind such a statement. It's kind of like having different pricing for the type of car the customer drives up to your store in. So, if your customer is one you perceive to be wealthy, are they expected to pay more for your services because you think they can afford it?

Do you work cheaper for poor people? Your prices should be reflective of your costs and overhead, that would of course include your labor charges. Your prices should never be based on what you think you can get away with. In most circles, that is refereed to as "price gouging". Business's that engage in price gouging, generally don't last all that long.

Your prices should be the same for everyone, all the time. You can offer discounts for various customers or volume orders, but I have never heard of selectively raising your prices.

It is just amazing how fast word will spread about less than scrupulous business people.

John

 

[AWG]

Pricing - whatever you're comfortable with. Same size/mat/frame gets a bigger discount than 30 different designs. Somewhere between 10 and 20 percent is what we might do, depending on circumstances, but don't make it a deal where you make no money - why starve if the artist gets to eat??? The only ones who get it gratis are charities who we work with regularly.

BE WARY - these things where "those people" show up are ususally NOT big business builders for you. It's hard to accept sometimes, but we're just "hired help" at events like you describe. Sure, it's sold to you as one of those BigTime deals with lots of positive exposure for you (since they're probably going to ask you to donate this work), but the reality we've seen is that you'll get little-to-no notice for your work.

Yeah - I speak from experience....
Tony

 

[RoboFramer]

I've messed about with your original post - you're an artist now; not a framer.

Okay, I need advice. A fabulous framer is going to frame my stuff for a show for the opening of a recreation complex. I have asked a third party to arrange it. (I can't deal direct - I tried once, but left just wishing I was half as good at what I do as he is at what he does)

How do you do it?

Do you ask for a discount and if successful, pass it on (just worry about my artwork) just to be associated with this framer?

Do you just pay the going rate and pass that on as above?

Or do you mark up the framer's cost 100% - I mean, no-one will know my price breakdown and this framer ALWAYS seems to make my work juuuuuust POP!!


I'm excited!! This is a really good framer too.

Just saying - don't be awestruck, even if Kinkade walks in!

 

[jframe]

BE WARY - these things where "those people" show up are ususally NOT big business builders for you. It's hard to accept sometimes, but we're just "hired help" at events like you describe. Sure, it's sold to you as one of those BigTime deals with lots of positive exposure for you (since they're probably going to ask you to donate this work), but the reality we've seen is that you'll get little-to-no notice for your work.

Yeah - I speak from experience....
Tony

Ditto that and don't do it if you don't get the money up front. It's not about the framing, it's about the art.

 

[Framecrazy]

It is just amazing how fast word will spread about less than scrupulous business people.

I am not some devious psycho who intends on taking advantage of some poor little art student. I was giving a range to demonstrate that I was in need of guidance from people with more business experience than myself. I certainly didn't post something I was legitimately concerned about to get treated like a criminal. I am secure with every ethical decision I have made in my business.

 

[JRB]

certainly didn't post something I was legitimately concerned about to get treated like a criminal. I am secure with every ethical decision I have made in my business.

I think you have taken my post out of context. You asked the question, the last of three possibilities, "should I raise my prices since the artist is making a profit?"

I responded to that question the way it should be responded to, harshly. This is a forum that has many, many, lurkers, all who are learning from our successes and our mistakes. I generally respond to questions with that fact in mind. I am answering the question by addressing a multitude of framers, not just the person who made the inquiry.

The things that come up on The Grumble are things that happen over and over again throughout our industry.

Do you think you are the only one who has ever considered what you are asking?
The question was a darn good one, it should have been asked. Don't get all in a huff and personalize it if it gets answered the way it was supposed to have been.

People are here to not only kibitz, but are here to learn.

John

 

[BILL WARD]

a great opportunity for you to S H I N E!!!!!!!

this is an exciting opportunity! deal directly with the artist. friends dont/wont pay the bill. get all $$ UP FRONT/CASH!!!!!!! with every piece with its own workorder detailing exactly what will be done for how much $$ and have the artist sign each of them.
And a little aggreement that YOU get a little display area(like a card table) IN the exposition area, so you can show off your stuff(show 1-mundane uninspired piece THEN--> the really complicated/different--3 v-groves etc--stuff with name cutouts & those little name plates, 4 decorative corners on 1 print, lot of debossing, 2-3 fillets ea., liners, canvas WITH frame etc etc etc. PLUS a brochure listing most/all of what you do there. this will, of course, allow YOU and your to be there during the event so as to answer, personally, all those 1000's on ?'s that will be asked in response to you phenominal display!!!!!!! you also want to have your biz card affixed to the wall near every frame that you did--reinforces the point. lastly you MUST prepare an appropriate press release(you could even mention that the artist will be showing 'something'(as a very minor particiapnt---YOU ARE the star, see?) and do this at least 30 days before the event---and then call up the local tv/paper/radio newsies 'what's happening NOW' people and get them to come to you and do a piece on you/yours at which time you will relate all the spiffy things you do/can do etc etc etc ---you might think about a 'show special' on 2-3 frames, 2-3 treatments etc--perfect place to reach the local buyer-base! this is a great opportunity to grab the game ball & go with it! dont waste the oppportunity -- there are toooo few of them

 

[Prospero]

Do you know the artist's track record? Does his stuff actually sell? The world is full of brilliant artists who never sell a thing.

If I were framing a show (I've done a few) I would want all the work in my shop so I could get an overveiw of the whole thing. And work out designs from there. Give the artist a quote for the whole job - no more or no less than it needs to be and if they are agreeable, do it.
Get at least 50% up front.

A few stacks of your biz cards next to a few small blurb frames - "Framing by.......", scattered descreetly about the show doesn't go amiss. But don't let them beat your price down for this concession.

 

[Framecrazy]

Thanks for all of your advice guys.

aside:
So you're telling me none of you have ever been in awe of an artist. I know it's business but isn't that what it's about; the art.
If Van gogh walked into your shop you know you would frame all his art for free and politely ask him to hold up your business card and say "I get all my framing done at JoJo's picture framing emporium".

 

[framah]

I don't care if it was Van Gogh or Ansel adams. They pay just like everyone else. Why should they get it for free? ... and yes, i have had some fantastic artists come in and I helped make it look even better with the proper framing and they paid me for MY expertise just as a customer pays THEM for theirs. They would get my standard artists 10% off like any other serious artist who can show me a business tax number.

If you are so in awe of the artist that you would give them the framing for free, then you aren't a business person, you are a fan. Pick one.

Seriously, the odds of you getting more business from your framing these pieces is pretty slim. Make the money on them and ask to have a small plaque of some sort near the art about your shop.

...and Bill... your response was really funny!!

 

[Framecrazy]

Ha! Ha! :kaffeetrinker_2: I don't intend to be ridiculous.
I'm not going to give anything away for free
and I don't intend to gouge anyone.
I think I can be a framer and a fan. I may not be a cut-throat businessman but I'm good at what I do. So there.

I got some good advice from several people and if the rest of you were just trying to get me to shut up, quit whining about it, and just get it done then it worked.
I get it.

Now quit griping at me and go make someone else's day.

 

[Beveled]

Thanks for all of your advice guys.

aside:
So you're telling me none of you have ever been in awe of an artist. I know it's business but isn't that what it's about; the art.
If Van gogh walked into your shop you know you would frame all his art for free and politely ask him to hold up your business card and say "I get all my framing done at JoJo's picture framing emporium".

I have an artist customer who has a large following around here. I'm not in awe of him, but I respect him and his work. He has become so appreciative of our work (because his former framer messed up 3 of his pastel drawings), that he has sent many people in to have work framed. Since he is highly esteemed in the community, his recommendations are a real compliment and also increase our customer base.

We give a 15% artist discount on full frame jobs, to professional artists.

 

[framah]

Glad you have a sense of humor!!