Connecting Metal Frames

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CAGallery

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
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Jun 14, 1999
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Brooklyn, NY
We have a customer who would like us to connect metal frames in a particular pattern (similar to what is shown below). Is there a type of hardware that fits or screws into the channels of the metal frames so that we can accomplish this? Any other suggestions for metals?
 

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This is just a wild thought, but perhaps you could try small binder clips.

s0037512_sc7


I would use the smallest size available. If the handles stick out you could bend them down or remove them.
:cool: Rick
 
Chavie, how many frames are there, and what sizes?
How big would the finished combined size be?
Will there be spaces in between some of them?
Will the outside of the shape be some kind of rectangular
or square shape, or have frames sticking out of it?
 
We sometimes use clips for deep box frames but it won't work for this.

This particular project will be 12 vertical pieces measuring approximately 5 x 7 each lined up side by side horizontally. The 12 pieces together will be approximately 73" wide by 18 1/2" high (before inserting into the panel and frame). Total outside dimension including panel and frame would be around 85" wide x 25" high.

The 12 connected pieces will be placed in a fabric covered panel with a recessed pocket so that the frames can lay directly on the recessed area. We can use hardware with screws that stick out because we are installing a painted strainer or frame around 2" from the edge of the back frame. This strainer will not be seen from the front so it will appear as the entire piece is floating on the wall. It will also hide any hardware that sticks out.

We have to decide on two things:

1) How to attach the frames so they line up perfectly. We would rather not have to drill holes through the metal frames.

2) Once the 12 frames are attached we have to decide how to connect it to the recessed pocket. If it were wood we could either glue the frames or drill through the recessed pocket into the wood frame and then use screws. Since it is metal this won't work.

We have a couple of ideas but each of them is extremely labor intensive. As it is this will be an expensive project so we would like to try and find the easiest way to do this.
 
So it's a fabric covered metal panel?

Will there be space between the frames?

There are plenty of people on here with ideas
far better than mine for how to do it, but
I figure if I can ask some clarifying questions,
then it will save those people the time of
having to wonder.
 
Hey, those are pretty nifty, Rob!

frameconnector.jpg


I'll post the picture here for ease, but it really is worth checking
out everything on the site. If for some reason, the people at
albin don't want this picture up, I'll have a moderator delete
it.
 
Why not use the hangers that are made for metal frames, and reverse them so that they extend outside the frame? I would think 2 per rail would "clip" together ilke a zig saw puzzle.
 
If they are to be mounted on fabric is it velcro receptive? If so velcro would be the answer. No need to attach each frame together and versitility for the customer for swaping or moving the pieces of the puzzle.
 
What the picture doesn't show is that the connectors fit perfectly in the channel of a metal frame (all brands - Nielsen, Clark and Designer, etc) and have a single set screw like metal frame hardware.
 
What about gluing magnets on the inside of the frame channel(s)? Then you could put a sheet of metal wrapped with a thin fabric inside the recessed area. Or possibly paint the metal black....
 
Those frame connectors will not make the frames sit tightly against each other based on the photo of them attached to three frames.

I agree with an overall panel wrapped with velcro fabric and velcro hooks on the back of each frame.

Nothing else will allow you to sit them so close together or doing it with so many pieces at one time.

The other ideas would have you joining them all and then figuring out how to pick up and move and then hang the unwieldy package to the wall.
 
This is definitely a KISS job.. "Keep it Simple Stupid"

The simplest method is usually the best unlike welding or gluing magnets or...:thumbsup:
 
I like this idea and want to make a wall like this. The hanging method has to be good as the frames are tight against each other. At first I thought about a vertical track with hardware that would allow the frames to be dropped in from the top and held against the one below by gravity but then there's the horizontal precision. Now I'm planning on using magnets attached to the back of the frames and a metal wall covering. The frames could then be slid against each other in any configuration. I did a metal wall years ago with sheet metal covered with wall paper. Magnets suitable are available like these:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=60007&cat=1,42363,42348&ap=1

Thinking while typing I think rather than sheet metal I will use a series of vertical steel flatbars in a suitable pattern screwed to the wall.
 
framah said:
Those frame connectors will not make the frames sit tightly against each other based on the photo of them attached to three frames.
Click to expand...

I THOUGHT it would be the perfect solution but this morning realized that this would be a problem and it wouldn't work.

For this particular project we are only placing frames, all the same size, side by side. We need them to at least look like they are attached. They will be put into a recessed pocket of a panel liner. If they are firmly attached to the recessed pocket then we could probably get away with having to connect the frames.

At this point our choices are:

Magnets - put a magnetic board in the recessed pocket and then insert magnets into the channel of the metal frame.

Velcro - to do this we would have to insert something into the channel of the frame so that the velcro could stick to it.

Screws - insert a wood strip into the channel of the frame. Drill through the recessed pocket into the wood strips.

We are still not sure which method to use. Does anyone see difficulties with any of these options?

Thanks for all the suggestions/comments.

Chavie
 
On the Albin web site they had frame tighteners. could those be adapted to connect together?

I'll also say use the hangers that we attach wire to, and wire them together This seems similar to stacking metal frames and to do that I have used hangers on each channel pushing together. For this I would do something similar and maybe secure with a screw through it or a wire through it.
 
The velcro can be put on at the corners just like the metal corner samples have it.

All of your other choices involve too much time and hassle to assemble whereas the velcro idea is clean, quick and simple and easily reversible if needed.
 
OK so here is another simple way-


AMS makes a plate that slips into the channel and accepts a 8/32 screw into a tapped hole. They also make a back up plate 11-6D that prevents the channel from getting indented from the set screw for adjustability but it may not be needed in this situation.

Nielsen also makes a recessed hanger that has a removable set screw.

Albin makes a bracket for their frame tite connector that fits into a metal frame channel.

I would use a series of the Albin connectors going "backwards" and drill a hole in the connector where it would intersect the tapped hole of either the AMS or Nielsen plate and then insert the proper sized screw to tighten.

Albin will sell just the Frame Tite bracket by itself. Once you have the hole position determined, it is easy to drill out all of the brackets.
 
Rob when I was looking at the Albin site I thought that the frame tite could be adapted to this purpose. Sounds like the way to go. (that is if you don't want to follow MY pearls of wisdom ;) )
 
I think some of the hardware suggestions would be a good solution for a "puzzle" type arrangement such as the one we did in the photograph attached to this thread. The photograph is actually a small section of the arrangement - it was a huge piece.

Lots of suggestions to think about. We are leaning towards magnets as we think it might be quicker then connecting the frames and then attaching them to the backboard. Does anyone think that there might be problems with magnets?

Chavie
 
I played with joining metal frames and it was a pain to get them precise. Mounting metal frames on a plywood backing board worked well using Tee bolts that fit in the channel of the metal frame. I used 2 bolts per frame, drilled 2 holes per frame in a suitable pattern, mounted each frame, and adjusted them into position one by one then tightened the bolts. The holes in the backing board were oversize to the bolts and there was a fair amount of positional play but once the bolts are tight the frames don't move.

The Tee bolts were a little tight in the metal frame moulding - I ground them down to fit.

Tee bolts: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=61986&cat=1,43455,61994&ap=1

I would use magnets with wood frames.
 
Rather than using Tee bolts (I just happened to have some handy) next time I would use flat head machine screws with a washer that fits the channel of the metal mounding.
 
Bandsaw.. the problem I see with your idea is the hardware sticking out the back of the plywood panel has to be taken into account when hanging the panel onto the wall as well as the fact that once they are in place, that is that. The photos can never be moved around.

Seriously, all of the ideas on here so far either take precision placement of holes and bolts or alot of gluing or screwing of stuff or joining all of the frames to each other and then the whole package of frames becomes one big unit that you have to be able to pick up and handle without bending or breaking something.

The whole idea of a project like this is to make it as easy as possible for you to do it as well as for your customer to change it if they want. By having a tab of velcro at the 4 corners of each frame, the whole thing can be built up like building blocks and if the customer decides that the photos would look better in another configuration, they only have to pull them off and reset them how they want.

The magnet idea would be my second choice except that it entails gluing magnets to the back of the frames.
 
If you don't want anything protruding out the back put a nut with a suitable washer in the channel and use a flathead screw through the backing into the nut. The back will be flush if you countersink the screws. The pictures can be readily moved but you'll have to have access to the back of the panel - be albe to remove the panel perhaps.

You don't need precise placement of the holes - the nuts and washers will move around a lot in the frame until tightened.
 
I really enjoy sorting out these problems. When I'm home in my workshop tonight I'm cut some strips of wood 1/2" x 3/16" that will slip into the slot on the back of a metal frame so I can use wood screws to either hold the frame to a backing board or screw on magnets. If I make these strips 1/2" x 1/4" and run a couple of little rabbets on the router table the strips will fit in the slot and be flush with the back so gluing velcro would be easier.
 
I don't quite understand the construction of this project having read through it again. I understand that it is a series of frames side by side, no frames above and below as in the picture at the beginning. These frames have to be aligned and against each other. Then it fits in a recessed pocket. Does the pocket fit tight around the frames?

This morning I tried hanging 4 metal frames on the wall side by side without attaching them to each other. The best method I found was to use AMS security hangers - just the top clips not the bottom Tee locking screw. I drew a horizontal line and screwed 2 of these clips to the wall for each frame. The metal frames just drop onto these clips (the clip does not go into the slot of the frame - it goes between the frame and the backing board which keeps the frame flat against the wall) When hanging on these clips the frames can be slid sideways to fit against each other. The slightly difficult part is then aligning the frames horizontally. The clips can be adjusted as the screw holes are slotted but I found the horizontal alignment to be simple by pushing up from below with a length of moulding which lifts the lowest frame a little to align it with the rest. The frames are still tight to the wall even when lifted a little. So perhaps the border of the resessed pocket could hold the horizontal alignment even. Removing these frames from the wall still requires about 1/4" of lift. Perhaps the edge of this pocket could be a separate frame which could be slipped into place after the frames are hung.
 
Bandsaw said:
I don't quite understand the construction of this project having read through it again. I understand that it is a series of frames side by side, no frames above and below as in the picture at the beginning. These frames have to be aligned and against each other. Then it fits in a recessed pocket. Does the pocket fit tight around the frames?
QUOTE]

You understand the construction correctly. We HOPE the pocket will fit tight around the frames!

We had a thought of seeing if earth magnets are available in sheets and then having the metal frames adhere directly to that. We took a small earth magnet just to make sure that the metal frame would work with it and it DIDN'T. It was almost like negative energy (or whatever the correct term for it is). We were so disappointed!

It seems we will have to go back to using a metal sheet and adhering magnets to the back of the frame or using velcro hook and loop. I think that anything involving drilling through the back (our original idea) and having to turn the panel upside down would double the labor time. Using Velcro or magnets would allow us to work face side up.

Thanks to everyone for all the help. I think that some of the suggestions will be very useful for different projects and for attaching metal frames in general.

Chavie
Click to expand...
 
The reason the rare earth magnets didn't work on the frames is that Aluminum can't be magnetized. That is why you would have to glue magnets onto the back of the frames.
Aluminum is a nonferrous metal.
 
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