Computer Advice for POS

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Kirstie

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Posts
8,395
Loc
Berkeley, CA
We are finally ready to buy two extra computers and scanners for our Frame REady System. We can run 3 without a server computer for File Maker Pro.

Here's what we want:

Two computers
Two keyboards and mice
Two small monitors on small stands, not larger than 15"
all the cables
One network printer, black print only

I would like to use Mac mini's under the design table. They are $843. each including tax for the units, Applecare protection plan, keyboards, mice. (If something goes wrong with a Mac I probably know how to fix it or I can take it to a local Apple store. With the PCs I don't have a freakin clue. Neither does anyone else at work. After living with the Dell and the Wiz computer for over a year, we are still not comfortable with the PCs and would much prefer to network with Macs.)

Our design table is not against a wall; customers can move around the two L shaped 4 x 8 tables. Cables would have to go on top of carpet to reach an outlet so we would need one of those rubber things to cover the cables and hope no customers trip. We take in a lot of oversized art that fills a table. We would like to use laptops because we often have to go to a work table to design when there are more than 3 jobs on the design tables, or if we are working on an O/S piece. But, we know about the security and speed issues.

So if we don't use Mac laptops (Veeery expensive) we need to buy two small CPUs and two small monitors. We are thinking of using the clamp on type holder for the monitors so we can swivel the around and so they will use the least footprint on the tables.

I remember that when Ellen and Roger visited us, Roger took one look at our table and said, "laptops, you can only use laptops." Would this be a disaster?



What we have:
One Dell with 20" monitor for IF with Frame Ready installed. This sits on a side table and is not really convenient for design but will do in a pinch. It would be our third station. Lots of RAM, second hard drive built in, 750 GB ea.

One Acer that came with the Wizard.

One new Mac with 20" screen in the office. Lots of RAM, big HD.
The router (full) is in the upstairs office next to this computer. We also have a hub for extra stuff plugged in. We have two printers in the office, an Epson and an old Brother network laser printer.

One older Mac with 17" screen in the office.

If we network more than 3 computers for the POS we will need an extra server computer and a license. This will get even more expensive.

Any buying advice would be welcome, especially on small monitors and small CPUs to fit under our already stuffed design tables.

Thank you.
 
Personally, I don't care for laptops when I need a workstation. But that may be more personal preference. I think I particularly like having a number pad rather than having to use a laptop's row of numbers above the alphabet.

A Macbook with 13" screen is only $1100. A little more than a mini, but they have built-in wireless. You could use a wireless network, but I suppose you'd still have to plug them into an outlet. You don't want to get in the middle of a design job and have the battery go out.

It might be worth getting a quote (if you haven't already) to have power extended to the table. They have some pretty slick tools these days and might be able to create a channel, or even drill through your slab and fish a line through. Of course, if you can do that, you could pull network cables at the same time.

I'm working on my own project now, hopefully networking with a remote site. Expensive, but still pretty slick.
 
I suggest avoiding wireless like the plague. :) FileMaker Pro tends to make heavy use of network traffic, and I believe it keeps many of the files open. As a result, it probably wouldn't be good if a cordless phone or microwave oven cut the network off briefly. (anything in the 2.4ghz range) Wired networks are typically faster, as well.

Is power already at these stations? If so, there's probably a way to get an ethernet wire in there.

Talking with the vendor should be a first step for suggestions, and to ask about memory requirements, as well as performance and reliability with wireless. It WILL work, but may be slower and the potential for corruption is higher.

PC's are worthy of serious consideration, and won't take much room if you mount the pc under the counter or to a wall. The monitor/mouse/keyboard could be on some kind of movable bracket suspended over the work surface (or on the corner of the table)

As far as the expensive apple laptops, i would be afraid one might end up in some kid's backpack. (theft) If you go with a laptop it should be secured somehow.

Economy examples for slave terminals:
Note: The one you use as the "server" should be fairly beefy with disk space, cpu, ram, etc. The slaves don't matter as much.

Dell Vostro 200 Slim Desktop Pentium Dual Core 19 inch LCD $399 Free Shipping

They have it for $299 without a monitor, and w/2gb ram: http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/vostrodt_200mt?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd (2gb for free option appears when you customize it)

I dont think Dell sells monitors under 17" any more, but you can find em in other places.(staples, etc) Just make sure it will be large enough to see without straining the eyes.

Good luck with the project!
 
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We had a manager's meeting this morning and decided on a few things and we have a question or two.

First, the networking question: Our router is upstairs in the office, next to the mac, 50 feet from the downstairs Dell used for IF and POS. The dell connects via ethernet cable (100') directly into the router. The phone line is next to that. (DSL) The router's port's are full, and we use a netgear ethernet hub as well.

Question: When we add two more computers downstairs for the POS, 50' from the router, can we just use an etherhet hub to plug the computer's ethernet cables into, and have the main ethernet cable that runs upstairs to the router plugged into this hub? Frame Ready siad something about possible needing a Switch rather than a Hub, but I was advised to seek expert networking advice. Mike?

Second, here is what we plan to buy:
2 Mac minis (and extra warranty plan) to go under the design tabls
2 mac wireless mice and keyboards
2 Neoflex LCD arms for the design counter for almost no footprint
2 15" flat screen monitors, probably Dell for $179. ea.
1 network laser printer b/w
cables
pull out drawers for keyboard storage and occasional use and installation for these drawers. This will invovle changing the support structure for the actual tables.

We want wireless for the keyboards because we often need to move around when the tables are busy with more than 3 customers. Sometimes we even end up designing on work tables.

Thanks.


Project cost $3000-$3500.

Time to go make some more sales.
 
Adding a hub downstairs is no problem at all. The 100' cable can plug into this, and it will add additional ports downstairs. This also eliminates the need to run 100' wires from each pc back to the upstairs office.

A 5 port switch/hub is about $29 at your local Staples. If that will fill it up, you may want to consider an 8 port switch instead. (future growth)

note: one of the ports will be used for the wire that goes upstairs. The pc's and printers can go into the other 4.
 
Mike, when Kelly at Frame Ready said that I should consult with a network person, I said, Who? The minute I hung up, I thought, of course, I have Mike to consult with!

Thank you so much! I just called a carpenter for the keyboard drawers and we are meeting on Sunday morning. I am SO exited to finally get the project going!
 
Kirstie

Your shopping list looks great, and I second what Mike suggests for running wire to hubs etc. You can daisy chain hubs if you run out of space. We run 5 computers with frameready and it was suggested that we go with File Maker Pro. It really allows the system to run faster. Talk to Bert at FrameReady, he helped us, perhaps it just isn't necessary with just 3. We've added one more station in the work area for so the framers can access the system in the shop. Work orders are printed out there at the scheduling counter.
 
Thanks Steve,

I've said this before, but every time I look at your site I just go crazy and say to anyone nearby..."Look at this!" YOu must have such interested browsers.

You have my dream space. I'd just add a DIY area and a ready made shop and it would be the TOTAL framing destination. 6000 sq ft!

Again, well done!
 
Kirstie said:
... customers can move around the two L shaped 4 x 8 tables. Cables would have to go on top of carpet to reach an outlet so we would need one of those rubber things to cover the cables and hope no customers trip...
Click to expand...

Your posts here mention upstairs and downstairs. Can you run the wires from the floors above or below your design tables? I suggest avoiding the carpet-hump wiring on the floor. Instead, go up the wall, across the ceiling, and down through a "power pole".

Our design table is a large "L" shaped table 5 feet from the nearest wall. We have six electrical outlets, telephone cables and network cables for the two computers, phone, and CC terminal there. All of the wires come to the table by one 3" square power pole, which has the electrical outlets built in. Clean floor all the way around.

When we moved into this new location I had a wired network installed, because in 2002 it was cheaper than wireless, but I'd do the same today for speed and security.
 
Jim Miller said:
Your posts here mention upstairs and downstairs. Can you run the wires from the floors above or below your design tables? I suggest avoiding the carpet-hump wiring on the floor. Instead, go up the wall, across the ceiling, and down through a "power pole".

Our design table is a large "L" shaped table 5 feet from the nearest wall. We have six electrical outlets, telephone cables and network cables for the two computers, phone, and CC terminal there. All of the wires come to the table by one 3" square power pole, which has the electrical outlets built in. Clean floor all the way around.

When we moved into this new location I had a wired network installed, because in 2002 it was cheaper than wireless, but I'd do the same today for speed and security.
Click to expand...

Hi Jim, If you look at the photos of our store here you will see that we have an upstairs mezzanine. Above the design table are tracks hanging from the 17' ceiling. Short of installing a pole somewhere, it would be hard to bring power down. the Dell is right behind the two chairs you see behind the Deisgn tables. We powered the camera off the track and brought the USB cable across on a white piece of stretcher bar from where you see the sign. This must have been taken before we installed the camera.

In 1977 who knew to bring power to the design table?

The step across would be between the design table and the moulding board, not far, and an area where coustmers don't step all the time.

It's a predicament. The case register is around to the right, not shown. That power is a long way away.

I should take photos of the "new" ready made room. It is much neater now that Lisa and Sara built new shelves.

Time to get myself going this morning.

Thanks.
 
Kirstie, I like Jim's idea a lot. If you try to run electrical from the walls, someone will have to dig a trench in your floor, then the electrician will have to thread the cables through the trench, then the trench will have to be refilled, etc. That is disruptive as well as freakishly expensive (and please folks, don't tell us how cheap electricians and other construction contractors are in your area. In the Bay Area, that work will cost at least $5000, probably more).

I think it would be relatively inexpensive to run a pole from the ceiling down to each table, and have the cables running through the pole to an outlet mounted on it. You can paint the poles to make them more attractive, too.
 
Is there a basement below this space where you could easily run the wires up? That's what I usually do for installs.

Mike
 
Don't forget to add a steady supply of batteries for the wireless keyboard and mouse.
 
Our shop is on the bottom floor of a 7 story parking parking garage. Our floor beneath the carpet is solid concrete. The only time we tunneled through this was when we made the original store improvements and brought in a water/sewer line for the bathroom we built.

A tunnel is not an option. Poles won't look good at all.

I think we are stuck with a 2" bump behind the design table. You won't really see it, and we'll probably have to mark it with yellow stripes.

We could try to unglue the carpet and put the wires underneath...nah.
I think we are stuck with a small bump. Next tme we recarpet we'll work out something better.


Good point about the batteries!
 
I may have shared this before on another thread...

Kirstie said:
.... Next tme we recarpet we'll work out something better...
Click to expand...

In about 1999, we did a major remodel of our shop that included new carpeting. We elected to hire a concrete cutter to come in a dig out two long channels into our concrete floor (only gravel below this).

We wanted about 3 electric islands in our shop to power displays, etc.

So, we covered everything in plastic sheeting, and had a wet vac handy to suck up the water mess, they morning they arrived to do this work.

After the cutting was done, we had an electrician lay in conduit and I poured in the fresh concrete to fill the channels back up. We were then read to have any wires pulled and the new carpeting laid.

It was a days mess - but WELL worth the effort. I detest those electrical covers plus I doubt they would pass most city fire inspections - They hate extension cords. :)

John
 
I'd still favor a power pole, Kirstie. Drop it into the "L" shaped design table, on the top's seam in the mid-section, between the mat rack and the flower vase. It is a fast, safe, mess-free, versatile, and cost-effective solution to placing power and other wires where you need them. If you re-arrange the room, move the power pole as needed.

Pretty? No, but most people would not even notice it, and probably nobody would say, "Eeeeew -- what an ugly power pole". You could hang a sign from it, or even a camera on a boom.
 
We met with a carpenter this morning and decided:

1. He will build two pull out drawers under the design tables for wireless keyboards, mice, scanners, and Mac Minis. The Minis will fit behind the keyboards so everything will stay neatly together. There will be holes in the back of the drawers, only a half round bump on the front.
2. Regarding the wiring, after going over every conduit possibility with him, we all agreed that the only practical solution for now is a rubber bump between the design table and the samples wall. When we re-carpet, we will have him make a small trench in the concrete to house the wire conduit.
3. He is making us a bookshelf to house poster books next to the cash register. One day we might have a computer on top of that shelf for poster ordering.

Now I need to decide on what monitor arm to use, Neoflex, or another, and then my shopping list is complete.

I took in two orders just as we were about to close tonight and stayed 45 minutes late. I hand wrote orders for 7 pieces for two customers and realized that I have a long way to go with the POS practice, as do we all at the shop. I did the paperwork in a blink with pen and forms. It will take a while to become as fast with the POS. Not too much time I hope.
 
Jim Miller said:
I'd still favor a power pole, Kirstie. Drop it into the "L" shaped design table, on the top's seam in the mid-section, between the mat rack and the flower vase. It is a fast, safe, mess-free, versatile, and cost-effective solution to placing power and other wires where you need them. If you re-arrange the room, move the power pole as needed.

Pretty? No, but most people would not even notice it, and probably nobody would say, "Eeeeew -- what an ugly power pole". You could hang a sign from it, or even a camera on a boom.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the time everyone has taken on this. The pole idea won't work. That's where we lay the art for the visualization. We really need to recarpet, and build a new (powered) design table, but that will be some time in the future. The computers will blow the budget for a while. That's why I'm staying late taking orders!
 
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