Coincidence, trend, or something else?

S

stshof

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
1,194
From
Ohatchee, AL
In eighteen years, I've had one customer ask for their matboard "fallout". This week, I've had two more! One was a new customer and just asked me if I would give it to her. No problem. The other was a customer that I've done lots of framing for and she innocently asked if she pays for the whole piece of matboard and what I do with the leftover. I was not prepared for the question! I told her I honestly hadn't thought about it before but I'd gladly give it to her if she wanted it. I know I shouldn't but I even felt a little guilty! I'd appreciate your opinions and advice, please. Maybe someone else can benefit before this happens to them!
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I have a customer who had worked in a frame shop and seems to think that she deserves to get the fallout as well. On the other hand would she pay for the matboard that I screw up if I cut it incorrectly?

They are paying for the materials we are providing to them for the size of their piece - unless they want to be charged for the retail cost of the entire 32 x 40 sheet!??! Then he/she can have all the scraps!! IMHO

Roz
 
I am occasionally asked for the fallout. Generally if it is bigger than 16 x 20, I trim the sharp corners and return it to the bin.

But, if they ask for it, I give it to them. They always say it’s for their kids. It’s not worth the hassle to deny them, and will generate bad will if you don’t turn it over.
 
Originally posted by Roz:
They are paying for the materials we are providing to them for the size of their piece - unless they want to be charged for the retail cost of the entire 32 x 40 sheet!??! Then he/she can have all the scraps!! IMHO
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That's the correct answer.

If they want the fallout, change the size of the mat to 32x40 in your POS and see if they want to pay for that!
 
I have so many scraps of mat board, that I would be happy to give it to them. I can get rid of the stuff. I usually call the local school and give it away anyway.

If it's a texture I would grieve it, but other then that I wouldn' care. It's better to keep the customer happy.

I would only give the fall out though. If it's 8 x 10 and they want the whole board, no way.
Just the 5 x 7 fall out! That's all they paid for. And they really can't argue with that.

Jennifer
 
When this...rarely....happens, I explain that most of the cost is labor, equipment, and overhead. I gladly give them the drop out. One less thing I have to haul away. Last Saturday I loaded about 50 #s of odd pieces into the dumpster so that I could begin accumulating new dropouts. At least they'll look fresh, for awhile.
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Afterthought: I do donate most of my scrap matboard to an organization that helps teachers. They stop by and pick up scraps every couple of weeks and it helps me keep my shop neater!!

I wouldn't deny a customer the fallout for exactly the reason of goodwill.... I just had a customer who does his own mat cutting and I sell him full sheet matboard and today he bought 10 scraps. He's happy. I'm happy. I also do his drymounting for him.

Also, sometimes if we have to buy a full sheet of a particular color just to satisfy an 8 x 10 or small picture - we do not make our money on that little piece unless we can sell the leftovers...

I am of the belief that it all works out in the end.
 
Originally posted by Tim H:
I politely explain that the price is just for the mat. Pricing is based on the fact that we keep the drop.
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I guess I didn't explain myself well - the discussion with the customer was just the size of the mat plus the "fallout". I like Tim's answer - honest and right to the point. It really helps to have everyone's opinion! Thanks!
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To play the devil's advocate...

What happens when you float or top mount a piece, do you charge extra to compensate for the lack of reuseable fallout?
 
Originally posted by El Framo:
To play the devil's advocate...

What happens when you float or top mount a piece, do you charge extra to compensate for the lack of reuseable fallout?
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Great question! Actually, I discount the matboard because I'm not cutting an opening. Should I rethink that?
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I charge the same for a float layer the same as I do for a window mat the same size. I figure there's other work involved that I don't charge separately for so it balances out.
 
Profitability relies on being able to recycle unused portions of all materials. My typical answer would be that the pricing is based on the portion used. I then explain that all prices would have to be raised in order to do that. I would ask the purpose and offer some unusable scrap (for business purposes) if they want it for the kids etc. It would all depend on whether the scrap was able to be used for other jobs.
 
I'm guessing you still have the unique experience of having some whackjob barge into your back room and rummage through your garbage cans to look forward to. "See! Here! Look at this! You can give me this!" I can also give you a walnut sized knot on top of your vacuous dome.
 
Just to stir the pot a little more …

Profitability relies on being able to recycle unused portions of all materials.
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But using Jeff’s thesis, then we should charge less for, say, a 20 x 24 mat with a 16 x 20 opening than we would for the same 44 UI with a 5 x 7 opening, since there would be more material to recycle.

Naah! Let ‘em have the fallout. They'll just get miffed if you don't, and, maybe, when they get a paper cut from it, you can sell them a Band-Aid.
 
I've never had the request, but as all mats are priced by the glass size, regardless of aperture size - what the hec. But if it became a habit........?

I've got a 2 bins, one off-whites, one colours, full of offcuts from 8x10" - 18x12" or so, anything below gets sent to file 13, anything above goes back from whence its Mom came.

These offcuts come in useful for stretching needlework over, making things flush and of course, the odd smaller job, if you can be bothered to find the right colour amongst them all.

The bin gets stuffed, so we bag the offcuts up in packs of ten assorted sizes and sell them for not very much. If it gets silly we drop a sackful off at the local primary school, they love them.

(and have no idea that the pateneted zeolite/micro-chamber technology will preserve their efforts for future generations to enjoy!)

[ 03-03-2006, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: RoboFramer ]
 
what Tim said...

I sell the fallouts as "precut" mats at a lesser price than if I have to "custom" cut. These are located in the area with the readymade frames for the DIY's. I also keep standard size blanks for those who need something custom and in a hurry 5x7 = $5; 8x10 = $10, 11x14= $15; 16x20=$20; cut while they wait.

works for me

elaine


my 2 cents

elaine
 
We restock everything larger than 13 x 16. Smaller than that we cut into ready made mats (8 x 10 and 11 x 14 only) and if there are any other leftovers we donate to teachers. If a new customer wants the drop out, we explain they are just paying for the mat with the opening; if a previously good customer wants it we give it to them.
 
I love your analogy, Mike. It makes a lot of sense.

Personally, I've never had anyone ask for the fallouts, but if the size of the fallout isn't too big (say 8x10 or less), I would probably just give it to the customer if they asked. I don't tend to do a lot of small frames, so I don't often get to re-use the smaller fallouts. Every once in a while, I go through them and donate them to local schools.
 
This may have never have happened before.

I agree with every comment made up to this point.


Having said that, if they ask for the fallout I give it to them. The fallout only, not the rest of the sheet. Most of them end up in the dumpster anyway.


I bet those customers have been in a Michaels recently. They sell "fallouts" for 6 bucks a piece.


Now, they feel like they got something for nothing and will sing your praises.

It's good PR work for sure.
 
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