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Problem chip out

Beauty, Brawn, and Brains: Wizard Z1 CMC

Matthew Hale

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
535
Just got a new saw, and I'm already finding its weaknesses. Any moulding with a moderate gesso coating will chip out at the top back corner; no matter if it's a cheapo matte black or nice water gilded profile. Slowing down the blade travel seems to help some, but doesn't fix the problem entirely. On this particular saw, the blades travel horizontally, not vertically. Is it possible that switching to blades with a more aggressive tooth angle would make a difference?
 

MitchelC

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
635
I first purchased a Ledsome Air/Hydraulic 14" Miter Saw. I loved it, however, as a lot of distributors started selling more and more moulding with "gesso", I was having the same problem as you stated above, expect that my problem was the outside bottom corner. It was not severe, all i had to do was put some putty to hide it, which i hated. Soooo... i purchased a "FrameSquare". That solved the problem. No chipping what-so-ever, no matter how thich the gesso coating is (most of the moldings with gesso are very thin anyway) My FrameSquare has been my #1 miter saw in the past 6+ years.
 

wpfay

Comfort Badger
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Mathew, what kind of blade are you using? Tooth count, triple chip or alternate bevel? Brand name? I use a Brevetti saw and have had some of that same problem. Finding that buying really good blades and keeping them sharp normally solved any chip out problems. Slowing down the stroke speed can also be helpful.
The framer's challenges in this regard are only going to increase with the use of more inferior wood species, and improper drying techniques.
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Jul 28, 2005
Messages
19,226
Is this a miter saw set up or a frame saw. There are so many variations in the equipment that brands, blades, and cut direction are needed to diagnose anything, Maybe post a photo so we can see what you are using.
 

CB Art & Framing

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
2,124
Can you post a picture of the saw?
Sometimes, if adjustment is available, setting the blade depth deeper helps. This insures that the outside bottom corner of cut is not only being engaged by the very tips of the saw blade, but rather by a decent amount of the teeth.
 
Hoffmann Dovetail Joining System

Matthew Hale

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Thread starter
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
535
The saw is a Brevetti Prisma CE, and we're using the 80 tooth (alternating bevel) blades that were included with the saw. I'm not sure what the tooth angle is. The blades are drawn one at a time horizontally through the moulding. There is no adjustment for depth, so the outside top corner is being attacked just by the tips of the teeth and on anything with gesso the last little bit just gets pushed out of the way instead of being sheared off neatly. We've only been using this saw for a few weeks so the blades really haven't had time to wear that much.
saw.jpg
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Jul 28, 2005
Messages
19,226
I would try a set of blades from Quinn Saw who is a Grumble sponsor. The blades are way less expensive than competitors and are great. Call Bill or Joe at Quinn and they will get you the right blades. They can also sharpen the set you have now to the best possible configuration based on the blade tooth set up.
 

CB Art & Framing

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Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
2,124
I would have the blades sharpened and checked for remaining teeth depth.
If they are dull or almost ground down, perhaps that's the issue.
I agree with Jeff. Quinn is excellent.
 

Ylva

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I ordered my first set of blades from Quinn a while ago. I still have one other set from different company. I am always happier when I put the Quinn blades in. They just came back from sharpening, can't wait to put them back in
 

Artistic Framer

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
425
Yes - Yes - Yes to Quinn saw. Do order a new set of blades from them, and have them sharpen your current set. You won't regret it! I used a Brevetti years ago, and found it to be a good machine. The "one cut at a time" aspect slows production compared to other saws, but it's certainly a winner in a small/med shop.
 
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artfolio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Feb 16, 2007
Messages
2,768
I used that model Prisma for years and never had any trouble with chipout, even on some very ordinary mouldings. Because it is a manual machine you have to learn just how fast to pull the blade through the wood for the best result and, like riding a bicycle, it takes a bit of time but once you have "got" it you are set.

Best bet is to chop some scrap moulding into short lengths and just focus on the sounds and the feel of the saw and watch what is happening until you have it sorted. Your pull speed needs to be steady and fast enough to avoid burning the wood but slow enough that you don't start slowing the blades down. As the blade starts attacking the back edge you do need to slow it down as the top, rear corner is the last part to be cut and the one where you don't want any chipping.

Finally, as others have already said, you must have good quality blades and have them sharpened regularly by a specialist sharpening service.
 

Matthew Hale

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Thread starter
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Dec 5, 2015
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535
Just got our shiny new blades from Quinn - they recommended 100t instead of 80t. They cut beautifully, and they even have our name engraved on them! thanks for all the recommendations.
 

Larry Peterson

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Just got our shiny new blades from Quinn - they recommended 100t instead of 80t. They cut beautifully, and they even have our name engraved on them! thanks for all the recommendations.

That's funny. I asked Bill the same thing. I cut mostly gesso'd mouldings and he recommended the 80s. I have both 100s and 80s from Quinn and I don't notice any difference in the cuts.
 

Larry Peterson

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Hi Larry,

For the Brevetti Prisma CE using the 275mm diameter blade, we find the 100 tooth blades are the best choice for most applications.


OK, different strokes for different folks - or different blades for different saws. :)
 
Hoffmann Dovetail Joining System

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Jul 28, 2005
Messages
19,226
That is the reason I like to be old world and have a conversation on the phone rather than ordering online. Once you have received the proper information you can use the online ordering but for the first purchase it is best to have a conversation as to all the details that allow for an informed decision.
 
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