Problem Can you identify/Tell me how to work it please?

[ukframeboy]

Here is a picture of an underpinner I got hold of some time ago, never used it and would like to try and get it working, but I can't work it out or find one like it anywhere on the net! Can anyone tell me what make it is or give me some tips on how it should operate please...

 

[Rick Granick]

I can't identify the machine specifically, but from that picture it looks like the moisture trap of that regulator is full of rust or something. Those vials should be clear so you can see any water collecting in there. You might want to replace that, and check that the machine's pneumatics aren't full of rust or other contamination too. Make sure your compressor is providing clean, dry air.
Rick

 

[Warren Tucker]

That's a neat machine. It's an underpinner. I have to wonder what's in that white box. Fluidic logics? My guess is that the overhead clamp doesn't move once it's been set. It looks as if it was designed so that you can screw it right down on the corner being joined. It's adjustable front to back. The lever must be used to position the v nail driver; you move the driver back and forth until you have it where you want to insert the v nail. The red button probably fires the driver, but what's that lever for? Maybe it sets the clamps.

First you but two mitered legs against the v shaped fences, adjust that mechanism on the side to where you want the v nail to go, then you flip that lever below the red button to lock the clamps, screw the overhead clamp tightly to the corner, and then hit the red button to fire the v nail. All this is pure conjecture. My advice is to hook it up to an air compressor and mess with it. I guess I should I should have started by mentioning the purpose of the machine; it is designed to assemble picture frames, or any kind of frame that has mitered corners.

 

[Baer Charlton]

That boat anchor is an original Dinasourious . . er . . . I mean Pstorious... before they started numbering versions and models. Sell it to an antique dealer.

The Hold down head is screwed up and down to adjust to the general height needed.... (the air will do the rest). This can also be moved back and forth to accommodate driving the pin behind, under, or leading the hold shoe. The foot pedal is to bring the hold foot down onto the moulding, which locks the driver, hold, and moulding in place.
The red button is the final trigger, the lever under it is the initializer... lift up on it to allow air to the trigger.... (safety measure that today is a duel button system set on each side and when you push them the flappers with bat the steel ball ba..... sorry, I guess that's pinball machines )

The clamp, and driver are all connected and move as one back and forth.... very sophisticated system that...... with your left thumb and fore-finger.. gently push or pull on the upright of the clamp assembly. (in those days they understood that only an idiot or masochist would move that hand over to under the clamp and therefore "Pin" their own digit..... in these sue happy times, you have to make sure the two hands are used elsewhere to guarantee that the operator won't get pinned. The two clamp blocks on the right side are forward and back stops for the clamp/driver.

If you stick to using it on all that raw moulding stock and make closed corners.. it will be a good work horse. On snot-wood, crush-wood, vapor-wood . . . not so much.

I strongly suggest that you just pitch the moisture trap and get a new one.... cheap enough and then no worries about rust in the system. A trap/drier system would even be more better.

The white box is an after market and my guess would be that if you open it, you'll find a manifold splitter for the four air lines; and a first aid kit. I do remember the water trap kind of getting knocked about a bit when it was mounted on the side of the green stand....

"Fluidic Logics?" Warren, you crack me up. Is that from Battle Star Gallactica? But it would be cool if it held the Flux Capacitor....

 

[ukframeboy]

First responses

Thanks Gentlemen, just to clarify; I am a framer with working underpinner - this one is just different and I have no idea how it is supposed to work (it seems odd or illogical to me).

I have "messed about" with it; the clamp does move backwards and forwards, what looks like automatically (or it should, I think), and up and down pneumatically. The pedal makes it go down and the red button makes it go up, but the leaver? Who knows. And getting it to fire a nail, again who knows? Perhaps it is broken or needs some TLC, but I wanted to see if it was me as the operator before breaking the machine up to see if there are repairs necessary. I could also do with identifying the make/model to try and get any manuals/instructions/spares necessary...

Am I :bdh:?

 

[ukframeboy]

Thank you so much Baer, just the answer I needed. I'll go and have an informed play with it now and see if it really is busted! I'll let you all know if I was indeed flogging a dead horse or antique as I shall call if from this day forward!

 

[Jeff Rodier]

Need a pciture of the back side as well to finish anylizing it but here is what I see so far. The plunger height is adjusted by twisting the screw mechanism on top. My guess is that the plunger assembly does travel downward in the process when fired. I would set the height about the thickness of a finger between the frame and the pad. The 2 levers on the side are stops to control the travel of the plunger from front to back. The foot pedal operatates the rabbit clamp (if this model has one) to hold the frame in position prior to firing the v-nail. Some model machines use the pedal to clamp and fire the v-nail. My first machine used the pedal for both firing and pressure. The harder the wood the more pressure that was used on the pedal. The button is a mystery. Might be some kind of release of air for jams.

Now the mystery lever on the side might lower the plunger onto the frame to hold it down prior to firing the v-nail. The first models of ITW/AMP had this lever on the top of the machine.

My guess for the sequence of operation would be as follows. Plaece one side of the metered frame into the fence and set the forward most v-nail position with the stop on the side. Next set the back position with the back stop on the side. The lever on the cross bar assembly of the plunger allows the plunger to move forward and back to place in the best position for a scoop shape etc. Move the plunger over the most stable position of the frame first and flip the side lever to lower the plunger. depress the foot pedal to clamp and hold.

This will take some trial and error but if the machine is working it shouldn' take more than a few tries to figure it out.

The water trap should be uncrewed to clean out any moisture but it is most likely just sediment in there. The clear piece unscrews from the rest. Before replacing it put some pneumatic oil on your finger and wipe it around the gasket to soften and moisten it so you get a good seal. You should also put several drops of pneumatic oil in the line past the moisture trap and you may have to remove the trap to do it. Unscrew the fittings on the trap assembly and just tip the little bottle of pneumatic oil into the the fitting that the trap screws onto.

Be sure to use only pneumatic oil and nothing other. This can be picked up at any hardware store like Home Depot or Lowes and is "Air Tool Oil".

Good luck and have fun. Let us know what you learn a you play with it and we will adjust the operating instructions accordinly. Also add a photo of the back side.

 

[Baer Charlton]

I'll still stand by my statement of it being a Pistorious.

Send these people your photos and see if they have anybody old enough to remember a model number...
http://www.pistorius.com/about_us_bg.html

Don't worry about the picture of the back side, as it looks just like the front side..... standard tray stand that you can see through as in the third picture.

When you get it all cleaned up and working, before you take it out for a test drive, hang a Chevy hood ornament on that "back side".

 

[Jeff Rodier]

I'll still stand by my statement of it being a Pistorious.

I would bet your right since it has the green paint that matches my 30 year old Pistorius saw. It took me so long to write my first post that yours was there when I was done.

 

[Baer Charlton]

Jeff, that green paint is on almost all machinery.... if you get a really good magnifying glass, you can just see that it is actually three unblended/homoginized paints. That way if something hits it, a few paint spots come loose, but it doesn't take out a chip; because the paints barely stick to each other. Think waterbase, oil & epoxy all in one pot that is continuously heated and shaken violently then shot under very high pressure to atomize the three paints into a mist of hot paint..... it's all done electrostatically now with powder paint.
I miss that old green. In high school the auto shop teacher blended white, green, & black... and shot his 52 chevy pick-up with it. Last time I was home he was still driving it with that 40 yr old paint job... looked like new

I think it was called something like Hammerite or Armorite. Tough stuff.

 

[Warren Tucker]

Baer, "fluidic logics" isn't so fantastic. The Cassese 810 is operated by them. If I remember correctly, there are two logic boxes in the machine to control the pneumatic operation. Pretty sophisticated. Back when I was in school we called it fluidic logic. Sort of a compressed air computer. My current Casseses are all electronic.

 

[Baer Charlton]

What analog or digital operation would the "fluid" (I'm guessing you meant the air) be performing? The only "switches" are the foot pedal that triggers the hold-down ram, and the red button triggering the pin driver ram. What else is going on that I can't see?

In a high production (500-1000 frames a day) I can see the justification of the computerized setting storage that some of the new pistorious' have that remember which nail, and where and how many.

Maybe I should go examine my hand planes to see if maybe the fluidic chip is what's causing that little score ridge down the middle .....

Now a CMC is a different story.....

 

[Warren Tucker]

Baer, take a look inside the cabinet of a Cassese 810 if you get the chance; the logic boxes are in there. I even had to have one replaced 15 years ago. They control the pneumatic sequences once the firing button is pushed. Probably more complicated than necessary but there nevertheless. Air can be compressed whereas a fluid can't but otherwise they are similar.

In my experience, a shop making 500 to 1,000 frames a day (probably a lot of frames made from the same moulding pattern) is way less likely to need a computer controlled under piner than a shop like mine that does 30 to 50 a day. I know Lynn, our frame maker, hates it when her Cassese 4095 is out of service. The 4095 is even more automated than you guessed. It knows up to three positions, how many v nails to insert in each position and which v nail cartridge to select for each position. It has a drum that holds 7 different size v nail cartridges. We have it programed for over 1,000 different moulding patterns. Making a lot of frames from the same pattern doesn't need this kind of machine; it's making a lot of frames from different patterns as we do that almost demands one. It takes time to configure the machine for different patterns. If you're joining 50 frames from one pattern there is only one set up. On the other hand if you're making 50 frames for 50 different patterns there are at least 50 positions for the v nail driver and overhead clamp, fifty or more for the location of the v nails and 50 decisions as to which v nail to use. The 4095 makes it possible for one person to assemble 50 frames or more in a day. Of course our warehouse picking software (we wrote it) and double saw miter help a lot too.